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unshift
04-20-2003, 07:59 PM
hey everyone,

i had a question as to what i plan on doing, a "permanent cut" program. i see everybody talking about bulking and then cutting, and the diet changes that go with the transition.

i'm going to completely omit the bulking phase, as i'm not really interested in adding tons of muscle (the only results i'm really after are increased strength/endurance), i pretty much just want to shed fat and develop muscle strength. i'm definitely not looking to compete and i really don't care about impressing others, i just want to be more athletic and physically fit

is it a good idea to do this? or does the bulking phase contain hidden (and necessary) benefits that i'm not aware of?

and also, as sort of an extension of my last thread (thanks to those who replied!), what kind of diet should i be trying to follow? i've read a ton of threads here and it seems most people are transitioning from bulking to cutting so i'm a little confused if theres anything extra i should know.

and for those who are saying 12-13X bodyweight for calories, does that apply even if you are overweight with a very high body fat percentrage?

sorry to bombard the forum with questions -- i'm just excited about starting my new program!

Ironman8
04-20-2003, 08:10 PM
First, where are you getting your most of your calories from? You should be getting it from protein. And what's your macronutrient breakdown? I suggest it should be 40/40/30 (protein/fats/carbs).

You should also be getting some healthy fats in your diet. Like fish oil, flax, peanuts, avocados, etc.

As for your calories, you don't have to do the 12-13x bodyweight thing. You should experiment first. For example, start taking in 2,500 calories, and if you don't lose weight, drop it down gradually until you do. ALSO: Aim for losing 1 pound a week. If you lose more than that, it is probably muscle.

I hope I helped some. Good luck with your program!

unshift
04-20-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Ironman8
Aim for losing 1 pound a week. If you lose more than that, it is probably muscle.


would 2-3 lbs/week be too much if i have a very high fat percentage and am doing pretty intense cardio?

i really don't want to *add* muscle either, i'd rather just maintain it (i have a pretty decent amount now). aim for 1 lb/week still?

Ironman8
04-20-2003, 08:17 PM
Oh, losing 2 or 3 pounds a week is normal is you have a high fat %.

kook
04-20-2003, 09:10 PM
hmm, post your stats, i was at 350 about 2 years ago, and who knows that the bf was.. i was a fat bastard, im guessing it was 40% at the least, but i was strong, played sports, and did not get winded or anything from climbing stairs like some, but when i got back into the gym, i lost bf really really fast at the rate of some 15-25 lbs per month, this only lasted for the first and second month.. then plateaued, then around the 5th and 6th it dropped like krazy again, during this time i ate 4 eggs and 4oz kielbasa in the morning, 1lb of salmon or 1lb of shrimp in afternoon and after i worked out i would eat chicken and pasta with vegetables. so only 3 meals a day,with a mulit vit, if i could do it again, i think i would have done things diff, but it worked great for the first 6 months

unshift
04-20-2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by kook
hmm, post your stats, i was at 350 about 2 years ago, and who knows that the bf was.. i was a fat bastard, im guessing it was 40% at the least, but i was strong, played sports, and did not get winded or anything from climbing stairs like some, but when i got back into the gym, i lost bf really really fast at the rate of some 15-25 lbs per month, this only lasted for the first and second month.. then plateaued, then around the 5th and 6th it dropped like krazy again, during this time i ate 4 eggs and 4oz kielbasa in the morning, 1lb of salmon or 1lb of shrimp in afternoon and after i worked out i would eat chicken and pasta with vegetables. so only 3 meals a day,with a mulit vit, if i could do it again, i think i would have done things diff, but it worked great for the first 6 months

i'm 18 years old, 5'7, 280lbs on a pretty thick build (probably 185-200lbs without the fat)

basically i'm looking to drop that 80 lbs as fast as possible. i can probably do this without losing much muscle at all, and the way i see it i have 4 months to do it (summer vacation, where i can be completely dedicated)... i know its not gonna happen that fast but at least i have a goal :)

for the way i lift (8-10 reps) i dont think i really require too many calories, i think 2000 a day should be plenty. i'm not a hardcore body builder or looking to get massive, i'm actually looking to keep it as simple as possible and just shed the excess fat.

if you could've done it differently, what would you have done? i know personally i'll be eating 6 meals a day opposed to your 3, but anything else?

carolinagirl
04-21-2003, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by unshift
for the way i lift (8-10 reps) i dont think i really require too many calories, i think 2000 a day should be plenty.

If you drop your cals that low, especially on an intense exercise program, you may lose fat at first, but your body will kick into conservation mode because it thinks you're starving it. And you are. So in the long run, you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

Also, lifting, any kind of lifting, (unless you are only using the pink bunny dumbbells ;)) will increase your caloric needs. Your body has to repair all the tissue you tore up. This tissue turnover process takes a lot of energy.

I'd shoot for at least 2800-3000 cals a day if you are doing 'intense cardio' and lifting. See how that level works for you and tweak it up or down a little as needed. Try to get at least 280 g. of protein a day; make up the rest of the required cals with healthy fats and good, unprocessed, low GI carbs (oatmeal, sweet potatoes, beans).

Be patient, guy. Do it right, so that it will last. It takes a long time to get fat, so don't expect to lose it yesterday. Just keep on plugging, and it will come. (And good luck, btw. :))

kook
04-21-2003, 05:51 PM
yes... what carolinagirl said .
80lbs will not be lost in 4 months, please dont think that it will
to give you some great advice, i say go and get your bf tested right now, i wish i did just to know.

i go against the grain with the whole how many meals a day kick, especially when tryin to rid some bodyfat, 6 meals a day just does not work for me,

but i dont think 2000 will do it for you, try 3000 to begin
and how i did it, to keep me motivated, was take down all my stats one day out of the week, and only that day so id check my weight on tuesday and do all the measurements, around head, neck, arm, shoulders, chest under armpits, around belly button, waist, upper thigh and calf,

maybe its overkill but it kept me wanting those numbers to go down and even if i didnt lose weight that week, maybe i was just holding extra food or water, but the measurements went down so it wouldnt get me down... it just kept me doing it

it took me a year and 2 months to drop 150 so trust me its gonna get frustrating at times

unshift
04-21-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by kook
yes... what carolinagirl said .
80lbs will not be lost in 4 months, please dont think that it will
to give you some great advice, i say go and get your bf tested right now, i wish i did just to know.

i go against the grain with the whole how many meals a day kick, especially when tryin to rid some bodyfat, 6 meals a day just does not work for me,

but i dont think 2000 will do it for you, try 3000 to begin
and how i did it, to keep me motivated, was take down all my stats one day out of the week, and only that day so id check my weight on tuesday and do all the measurements, around head, neck, arm, shoulders, chest under armpits, around belly button, waist, upper thigh and calf,

maybe its overkill but it kept me wanting those numbers to go down and even if i didnt lose weight that week, maybe i was just holding extra food or water, but the measurements went down so it wouldnt get me down... it just kept me doing it

it took me a year and 2 months to drop 150 so trust me its gonna get frustrating at times

i know its not going away in 4 months, don't worry :) i just want to get rid of as much as possible in the next 4 months before school makes it difficult again

also motivation really isn't necessary... just having more energy and feeling better does it for me. i actually find that lifting is more fulfilling (physically AND mentally) than being a couch potato. basically i've already chosen the "active" way of life, now i just need advice on how to get to where i want to be

thanks for the tips though, greatly appreciated

Ironman8
04-21-2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by unshift
just having more energy and feeling better does it for me. i actually find that lifting is more fulfilling (physically AND mentally) than being a couch potato.

Heh, you got that right. But staying glued to the couch is satisfying after hard lifting :D

bradley
04-22-2003, 02:58 AM
i go against the grain with the whole how many meals a day kick, especially when tryin to rid some bodyfat, 6 meals a day just does not work for me,


I usually go for three regular meals and then 2 or 3 "snacks" between meals. The main reason for this is I feel it keeps my hungar down which in turn will help prevent overeating at the next meal.