GLucophage/Metformin

[Tryska]

i figured what the hell - there just aren't enough threads on this topic, so i need to make one too. :D


k, so i got a prescription for this from my doc today after complaining about insulin issues and the bloodwork panning out in that direction.


anyways....it's for squiggle squiggle mgs twice a day.

i want to stack ala with it....so how much should i be stacking?

any other tips (aside from take it with meals, and don't get IV X-ray things done whilst on it) would be greatly appreciated.

thanks boys!

[Tryska]

oh also....i turned up a source for anavar. considering i'm on T-4 and will be on glucophage by tomorrow, should i even consider the anavar now?

[PowerManDL]

You got glucophage? You and me are gonna have to talk, whitey.

[Tryska]

i've got a prescription for glucophage for a valid medical reason, yes.

[the doc]

oh and i supose the anavar is for medical reasons as well


well if your gonna take the anavar, you'd better forget the abstinance, get a boyfriend or a humming toy since your going to want it all the time :hump:

[WillKuenzel]

*raises hand*

:D

[Tryska]

pssht. the anavar is purely black-market.

and whent he time is right i'll get my hump on. the time just hasn't been right yet.

[the doc]

all i am saying is make sure you have one or the other since your horniness will likely shoot through the roof...

wait till i am down in hotlanta again :D

[Tryska]

i didn't say i was definitely taking it. i'm asking if i should take it along with all the other stuff i have to take?

[Tryska]

and why has no one given me ala dosages yet?

[Fudomyo]

For weight loss, it works best with low/no carbs. Then when your happy liver decides to make some glucose, it get's twarted, and it's onto fat burning for you.

rALA is about 3mg per gram of carbs. More for regular ala.

[Tryska]

wait..what?

rALa is better dosage-wise?

so say i take in 100 mgs of carbs i need to take 300 mgs of r-ala?


so here's a question....if my carbs are coming fruits and veggies does that mean i take it according to the effective carbs? or the actual carbs?

[the doc]

always subtract out the fibre since this cannot be processed by the digestive tract :)

[Tryska]

well thank you for that helpful input doc! :thumbup:

[Severed Ties]

I wouldn't recommend using anavar with Gluco/metformin.

ALA about 300-500mg per carb meal
rALA 100-200mg per carb meal

Keep the total carbs per meal under 100 grams, don't count veggies or fiber.

I've got to go lift but I'll write more later.


ST

[Tryska]

what is the difference btwn ala and r-ala? is r-ala more potent?


thanks ST. i don't think i'll have a problem with carb grams per meal as it's usually somewhere in the 20s per, and that's including veggies/and or fruits. i'll have tog et my fitday diary up and running again to keep fullt rack.

[the doc]

R-ALA is one of the two stereoisomers present in racemic ALA.

racemic ala is actually a mixture of 50 % R and 50 % S with the R being responsible for most of the insulin type properties and the S being a general antioxidant

thus if you have the R-ala then one needs to take only about 50% of the racemic ala dosage

[Tryska]

i see. the ati-oxidants in the S - what are they good for?

[the doc]

they are the same as for the R-ala

any thiol such as ALA, glutathione, cystiene, will all have this property. hydroxyl radicals oxidize the thiol in ala resulting in disulfide formation

[Tryska]

okay...and i why do i want to take this in conjunction with metformin again?

[Tryska]

and do i take the ala alongside meals or alongside my met dosage?

[smalls]

ALA with carb meals. I dont know much about the met, sorry.

[CB]

Hmm...dunno if this is along the same topic as Tryska but was wondering can you do a cut with just metformin hcl. I have ready access to 500mg tabs. If I can cut with it...how would you recomend I do it. Also dosage? And duration of cycle? Thanks!

[Severed Ties]

Take both your ALA and metformin with meals, Met can be pretty rough on the intestines so be aware of that.


Doc where did you read that the S isomer of ALA works as an antioxident? From everything I've read is seems to have mainly negative effects in the body but the R form overshadows this with racemic ALA. So takeing the r-ala form is better in all regards

ST

[the doc]

ST i haven't read that anywhere specifically, but in general most thiols have antioxidant properties (more specifically that they are easily oxidized in terms of redox potential) and will react with oxidizing species such as hydroxyl or furanosyl radicals with a greater driving force than nucleosides or proteins (provided sufficient cellular concentration).
Perhaps the negative properties of S-ala are more related to some molecular characteristic...? ITs definitely amazing how one enantiomer can be extremely beneficial wheras the other can have disastrous efffects. Pthalidamide, a drug given in the 60s to pregnant women in its racemic form. i can't remember what excactly its indication (something related to one of the symptoms of pregnancy) but regardless it was highly effective. However, many of the babies were born with horrible birth defects. It turned out that one of the enantiomers in the racemic drug caused these defects. Were that drug to be manufactured today, it would most likely be availible in enantiopure form but in the early 50s/60s the chemistry to make the pure form just didn't exist

[Budiak]

Well miss T, if you're on two metformins a day and you have carbs with...say, 4 meals a day, then you'll take 4 doses of ala and 2 doses of metformin. Metformin doesnt *have* to be taken with meals, but it can help the jibblies a bit.

As for whether or not the efficacy of either drug is increased if taken together...I just plain dont know. I dont think I've noticed a difference, I added metformin in about two weeks ago at 1700 a day and it has increased fat loss, but I dont know whether or not the loss would stop if I discontinued the ALA or what.

I say you just take 1 metformin in the morning, take another 12 hours later, and take 500mg of ALA per meal with carbs.

[Severed Ties]

Originally posted by the doc
ST i haven't read that anywhere specifically, but in general most thiols have antioxidant properties (more specifically that they are easily oxidized in terms of redox potential) and will react with oxidizing species such as hydroxyl or furanosyl radicals with a greater driving force than nucleosides or proteins (provided sufficient cellular concentration).
Perhaps the negative properties of S-ala are more related to some molecular characteristic...? ITs definitely amazing how one enantiomer can be extremely beneficial wheras the other can have disastrous efffects. Pthalidamide, a drug given in the 60s to pregnant women in its racemic form. i can't remember what excactly its indication (something related to one of the symptoms of pregnancy) but regardless it was highly effective. However, many of the babies were born with horrible birth defects. It turned out that one of the enantiomers in the racemic drug caused these defects. Were that drug to be manufactured today, it would most likely be availible in enantiopure form but in the early 50s/60s the chemistry to make the pure form just didn't exist

Normally I'd be inclined to agree with you bout thiols having antioxidant properties. S-ala may posses some on some level but since I saw that study where S-ala decreased rat's average life spans I'm left to wonder if S-ala is purely malevouslous to the body. Thus far everything I've seen seems to point to r-ala isomer for all the benefits but thus far I've found no difference personally between r-ala and racemic in terms of benefit.

Pthalidamide was an excellent example. With current refining procedures the drug could theoretically make a come back but I don't see the public ever accepting it.


ST

[Tryska]

Originally posted by Budiak
Well miss T, if you're on two metformins a day and you have carbs with...say, 4 meals a day, then you'll take 4 doses of ala and 2 doses of metformin. Metformin doesnt *have* to be taken with meals, but it can help the jibblies a bit.

As for whether or not the efficacy of either drug is increased if taken together...I just plain dont know. I dont think I've noticed a difference, I added metformin in about two weeks ago at 1700 a day and it has increased fat loss, but I dont know whether or not the loss would stop if I discontinued the ALA or what.

I say you just take 1 metformin in the morning, take another 12 hours later, and take 500mg of ALA per meal with carbs.


and i got the scrip last night it's 500mg met 2 times a day. not the big doses y'all take, but my doc likes to start low and up from there.

anyways....that would be 300 mg r-ala per meal with carbs, no? and if the meal has no carbs, then no ala/r-ala?

[Tryska]

okay...so here's my issue - i couldn't find r-ala anywhere, but i did find ALA - it's a time-release cap tho - of 300mg.


the directions say take 1 or 2 caps per day with meals, or consult yor healthcare practitioner.

no hint as to what the time release might be, but i'm presuming 12 hours (?)

so hwo do i adminsiter this?

i take in about a 100-150gs carbs a day.

[the doc]

hmmm... have you bought it yet? If your using it for insulin-like properties i would think time release is the opposite of what you would want

[Tryska]

no...i'm using it for fat loss, i thought?

[the doc]

well the ala will enhance glycogen synthesis and storage in the muscles without turning on the fat synthesis machinery like insulin would.

so no it is not going to directly effect fat loss but it does effect nutrient partitioning in the body. This is why you would not want the timed release. You want ala concentrations to be higher in the window durinig which time you are digesting/processing/metabolizing carbs

[the doc]

essentially it is allowing for more efficient refeeds on low carb diets (in terms of glycogen storage vs fat synthesis)

[Tryska]

ahh..i see.

so i need to return this then, is what you are saying?

[the doc]

aye ;)