View Full Version : The CKD experience

08-07-2001, 05:09 PM
Well, I was going to wait until I started bulking again before starting this mofo back up, but I figured it'd be cool to have my CKD experience documented.

So, here we go...

So far I've had no carbs since sunday, and feeling great. Training is scheduled around the carb load and goes as follows:

Monday - Back/Shoulders/biceps

T-Bar Row-2x8-12
DB shoulder Press-2x4-6, 1x8-12
Straight-Bar Curl-1x4-6, 1x8-12

Tuesday - Chest/Triceps/Legs

DB Press-2x8-12
Skull Crusher-2x4-6
Calf Raise-2x10-15

Wednesday and Thrusday - Off

Friday - Full body depletion

T-Bar Row-1x15-20
Bench Press-1x15-20
Leg Curl-1x15-20

-Repeat 2x...little to no rest between each exercise.

My diet is as follows (monday-saturday):

Meal 1 - 9:00am

1 can of tuna
3tbs mayo
1 tbs olive oil
1 cap thermadrene
16oz water
1 multivitamin, 400IU vit E, 1 cal/mag, 5g glutamine


10:00am - 10:30am - Weight Train

Meal 2 - 10:45am

6 whole eggs
1 tbs olive oil
1 multivitamin, 5g creatine, 5g glutamine, 50mg 5-HTP
16oz water


Meal 3 - 1:00pm

4oz ground beef
1 tbs olive oil


Meal 4 - 4:00pm

6 whole eggs
1 tbs olive oil


Meal 5 - 8:00pm

1 can of tuna
3tbs mayo
50mg 5-HTP



Pro-160g - 27%
Carbs-10-20g - 3%

Water is about 6 liters.

On sunday I will carb load with 800g of carbs, as little fat as possible, and 160-170g of protein.

That said, so far things are going great, feeling very energized but it's probably due to the fact that I still have some glycogen to burn before I drop into a coma. I had a slight case of ketone breath this morning, nothing major...I expect to hit ketosis by Thrusday morning, Friday at the latest.

Training has been good on Monday and Tuesday, Monday's workout was kinda ****ty but todays was great, progressed on all lifts.

Edit: Forgot to throw in my stats:

Bodyweight - 170lbs (as of monday morning)
Height - 5'9
Bodyfat % - Well, I used my little POS calipers and they told me I am 9.6%, which I know is not accurate. I'd estimate about 10-12%, although the caliper measurement sounds better.

Will try to update this thing daily.

Maki Riddington
08-07-2001, 06:28 PM
So you'll be back at 150 in no time...bwhahahahaha.

08-07-2001, 08:06 PM
Haha, but a ripped 150 ;)

08-07-2001, 08:13 PM
I never thought I would hear Cackerot say "A ripped 150"


Maki Riddington
08-07-2001, 08:39 PM
Good Luck Cack I'll be reading........

08-08-2001, 08:52 AM
Good Luck Cack

08-08-2001, 09:26 AM
Well, after consulting with Paul he informed me that my depletion workout needs to be longer, so I'll make that change. Basically, I'm going to go by feel...I've also been going through Lyle's CKD journal from a while back (1996), and was surprised to see his weight at a whopping 150lbs.

Anyway, besides being extremely flat which isn't psychologically pleasing, I know it's only temporary...I'm still feeling surpisingly well. Perhaps I still have some glycogen left, perhaps I just feel good on the diet, I never picked up keto sticks so I really don't know 100%.

Yesterday was 100% perfect of the diet and water intake, although I think my fat to protein ratio could be a little higher, dunno if I will change it yet. Next week Monday and Teusday's workouts will be a little higher on volume, as to deplete glycogen quicker for more time in ketosis, and if I continue to feel as good as I am now on the diet I may switch to a TKD for even more time in ketosis.

I'm finding it very hard to sleep on this diet, but despite the lack of sleep I am still very energized, which could be good or bad.

That it.

08-08-2001, 02:58 PM
This makes for good reading.Very interesting.Good luck with your program, Cack.

08-08-2001, 07:04 PM
OK, I'm now in ketosis based on this fooking ketone breath. Perhaps I will start experimenting with different amounts of carbs during the week to see how high I can go while staying in ketosis. I was a little worried about not getting in on time, because it was taking longer than expected...thinking my drinking of diet coke and sugar free jello could be spiking my insulin via cepho-physiological response or whatever the fook it's called, but it's all good now.

After I eat my final meal today diet will be perfect, I dropped protein down a bit to 150g and upped fat to 200g to and cals are about the same. Water is perfect, on at least 6 liters, lost count, thirsty as hell for whatever reason.

No training today or tomorrow, I may add some cardio in depending on how's things go, but so far everything is going great.

I'm looking a little leaner today but it's probably due to sub-cutaneous water depletion, or not...hopefully the latter, heh. Will be weighing myself before my carb load to see how much punier I get from my usual puny self just due to water and glucose depletion, and compare to my weight post-carb load...which is when I will take innaccurate bodyfat measurements.

Well, things are going much better than I could have expected, and that it for today.

Chris Rodgers
08-09-2001, 11:19 AM
Good luck puny boy! ;)

08-09-2001, 06:37 PM
I burned some extra cals today, went swimming, played a little basketball, etc...but diet remianed good (although meal timing was off), I still have a couple meals to eat. When I woke up this morning I was noticably leaner, which is surprising, if things keep up at this rate I'll be 6% in 3-4 weeks...but I doubt they will.

I'm still feeling very well on this diet, better than when I was eating carbs actually. Perhaps due to insulin? Dunno. I've been advised by blacky to throw in a potassium supplement and drop the carb load down to 600g, instead of 800g. Blacky also mentioned uppeing the fat : protein ratio in meal one to help stay in ketosis (prevent gluconeogensis), so I'll make that tweak. The carb load will by on Sunday so the depletion workout will be on saturday...I'm not really looking forward to the carb load at all, more of a chore than anything, but I gotta do it I guess. This diet is extremely easy for me to stick to, which goes against what most report...so that's cool.

I've been noticing I seem to be getting more hungry and thirsy than when I first started the diet, for unknown reasons.

As an aside, I was speaking to Tryska yesterday and I think she's trying to scare the sh*t out of me with all these health problems and crap. Saying I'm more thirsty because I need to drink less water or some weird stuff like that. I think that girl is crazy, nevermind being a gooface.

I've also never thought lettuce could taste so damn good, I ate like 5 heads of lettuce, and I'm out of it now...so that sucks.

Anyhow, still feeling great on the diet and leaning up (could be water depletion, or whatever, hence I say leaning up rather than losing fat) much quicker than expected...although my puny muscles are extremely flat, when I carb load that will (should) not be a problem.

Well, that it for today.

08-10-2001, 04:37 AM
okay so...blacky tells you to supplement with potassium and you believe him....and i tell you to supplement with potassium, and explain why, and i'm crazy?

that's sexism gooey.

btw...you stink something awful, keto-breath. :fart:

08-10-2001, 10:01 AM
Good luck cack.
PS: CKD or not I'll be ripped before your fat ass even knows it.

08-10-2001, 12:17 PM
GL Cack...glad to hear it's going well so far...

08-10-2001, 01:19 PM
Shoulders the day before chest?

I'm gonna side w/ Ron on this one. Sorry Bitch.

08-11-2001, 03:14 AM
Diet was perfect today although I've been eating less clean foods (sausage, steak, hot dogs, etc) Lyle claims it doesn't make a difference...but I'm skeptical. I'll be going back to clean food from now on. Cals will be down a bit next week, dropped them down to 2100, with protein at 140 and fat at 170.

Tomorrow I get to stuff my face with as many carbs as possible, woohoo! Not looking forward to to the 60-90 minute depletion workout though, I haven;'t gone above 45 minutes for a while, but it's high reps and relatively low intensity (3 reps short of failure)...circuit training and stuff.

I feel extremely well on this diet still, so I must just feel good on the diet because there's no way I have any glucose left at this point...I am starting to crave carbs but they are only a day away so it's no prob. I've become an aspartame junky though, and Tryska keeps telling me it will rot my brain and give my parkensins and alzheimers or however you spell them...but I don't really buy it, last I heard those studies were done on rats feeding them 7 times their bodyweight in nutrasweet...ain't exactly my intake.

I'll be taking weight and innaccurate bodyfat measurements tomorrow morning, so that should be interesting. I better not be like 150lbs, lol...I'd be pissed. Anyhow, my carb and glucose depleted weight will undoubtedly be lower than my carbed up weight, so I won't worry about it much whatever it comes out as.

Well, that it.

08-11-2001, 07:20 AM
those were th cancer studies on saccharin, gooey....but anyway...don't believe me....but like i told you....when you get old and forget how to get to your house....don't call me for directions....i'll send you on a wild goosechase just for the hell of it....:evillaugh

08-11-2001, 02:26 PM
Weight = 166lbs
Innaccurate bodyfat% = 8.2%

More updates later, just had to write these down so I don't forget.

08-11-2001, 05:27 PM
Well the depletion workout sucked, had no energy at all. I did one run through the circuit then got half way through another and basically ran out of energy. I guess that whats they mean when they say "you just know when you're glucose depleted", heh. So, the carb load has begun and will continue until sunday night, then monday it's back to trace carbs. So far the carb load is going good, feeling a little light headed for whatever reason, but nothing major.

There shouldn't be much if any fat regain during the carb up so long as I keep fat pretty low and protein at about 1g per pound. So far this is the best diet I've ever done as far as fat loss goes, and I'll probably keep using it in the future. Gonna be interesting to see how much weight I gain back after the carb load.

Well if things keep up at this rate I'll be 6% in two weeks, which is right where I wanted to be...then it's time to become a fat ass again. I'm a little worried about fat re-gain from when you go back to traditional dieting, i.e. adding carbs back in, I'll go with an isocaloric diet when I go back so insulin is kept in check as to minimize the fat re-gain.

I'll be taking bodyweight and bodyfat % after the carb-up (monday morning).

That it.

08-12-2001, 07:13 PM
Carb load = ace.

Nothing really to report.

Gyno Rhino
08-13-2001, 09:00 AM
I'd be interested to hear about LBM changes in this kind of diet. I'm 215 @ around 16% BF.. I'd be interested in losing some BF, but don't wanna sacrifice much muscle. Keep up the good work, Cacker-whacker.

08-14-2001, 06:12 AM
After the carb load I was still 166lbs, which is kinda odd. I did fill up though, wasn't so flat. I have like no food left so all monday every meal = cheese and oil...mmm. I decided to do my entire upper body on monday, and nothing progressed, but I didn't lose any strength, which is exactly what I'm going for. Gonna get my sleeping drugs refilled so I can sleep, for some reason keto gives me insomnia.

Tomorrow will be legs/abs, and I should be back in full ketosis by wednesday. This week cals are a little lower, at about 2100, 140 protein, 170 fat, going to be taking ECA 2x a day 5 days a week with the weekends off, rather than just pre-workout.

Anyhow, I think I mighta been a little low on carbs for the carb load, only got about 500g in, but I should be ok. I also forgot to kick myself outta ketosis before saturdays depletion workout, which is probably why it sucked so bad.

Will be taking weight and bodyfat on saturday, and again post carb load.

That it.

08-16-2001, 05:38 AM
Me = ripped mofo.

So far I've been 100% consistent every single day I've been on this diet, training and all, which may be a huge part of why it is working so well. I added in green tea 3x a day this week, and next week I'm switching to a TKD for a few reasons:

1. I feel great without carbs.

2. I don't like how limiting CKD training is.

3. More time in ketosis.


Training yesterday went well, I upped deads 10lbs, SLDL 5lbs, leg ext 5lbs, and did hanging leg raises for 6 reps. I always train better on tuesday than monday which is kinda odd, dunno why.

I've found I can eat up to about 30g of carbs while staying in ketosis.

That it.

08-16-2001, 10:21 AM
Cack, TKD is having your only carb source after each workout correct? Does that allow you to always stay in ketosis?

Gyno Rhino
08-16-2001, 10:35 AM
I thought TKD was having it before a workout, to fuel your workout?

08-16-2001, 10:39 AM
It's before or after...whichever you prefer.

You will get kicked outta ketosis for a bit, but it's less then on a CKD where you are out for 2 days of the carb load and not fully in till about 2 days after.

08-17-2001, 09:32 PM
On thursday I was overactive, played football for 3 hours which involved sprinting, hence anaerobic activity...in keto = bad. I also went swimming for a while during the day...on top of this I didn't eat all of meals. I also took 3 caps dymetadrine to keep me up and various other caffine containing drinks, green tea, diet coke, etc...

Anyway, because of this (I assume) I felt like total shit this morning and I basically slept all day until 6pm...then I puked like 3 times...yummy. Finally I was able to choke down some food, I decided on carbs as they would be easier on my stomach so I'm kicked outta ketosis for a bit. Currently I feel ok, just fatigued. Training will be monday, wednesday and friday with 25-50g of carbs (not fructose) an hour and a half beforehand. Will be a basic push/pull/legs split, with the same exercises and reps.

Planning on ending this diet after next week to go into a isocaloric diet alternating carb and fat meals to keep insulin in check and fat gain to a minimum, in theory anyhow...thus I'm testing it.

Weight is 165lbs pre-carb load

Innacurate bf% = 6.8%

I don't look that lean though, prolly 8%.

So, after next week I should hit my goal of 6% on the calipers and be plenty lean enough to bulk without getting too fat like last time.

That it.

08-19-2001, 06:25 AM
Well no more carb loads :(

Workouts will be 3x a week with 25-50g of carbs beforehand, the TKD should work a lot better than the CKD so we'll see. I may go for the whole 4 weeks meaning 2 more weeks of this, just to give some room for fat re-gain. When I go back to bulking things will be much different, I will also be prioritizing back/arms.

Other than me eating a few carbs the other day because of being sick, I've been 100% consistent for the entire time on this diet...lost no strength and no visible muscle loss and according to the calipers too.

Well, I'm not going to update this as much because I'm beginning to repeat myself, so unless something abnormal or important happens I won't be updating, expect 2-3 a week.

That it.

08-19-2001, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Tryska
okay so...blacky tells you to supplement with potassium and you believe him....and i tell you to supplement with potassium, and explain why, and i'm crazy?

that's sexism gooey.

btw...you stink something awful, keto-breath. :fart:
I hadn't noticed it.
I told him to take extra potassium in the carb-up days to avoid high water retention.I m'not crazy to tell him go and take potassium while you're in ketosis!(and dehydrated).

08-22-2001, 07:28 AM
Well getting any lower in bodyfat is a fookin bitch. Cals are down to 1900 with 120 protein and 160 fat, ECA up to 3x a day training is full body once a week with 50g carbs beforehand....so I have a ton of time in ketosis.

I'm going for 2 more weeks...then I'm done with cutting.

08-22-2001, 07:50 AM
coo, can't wait to see your pics at the end of your cutting cycle

08-23-2001, 03:36 AM
Cack I have a question for you, my friend is doing a ckd diet right now and is experiencing problems like upset stomach, vomating, and lack of energy

I checked her diet and it seems ok she's tacking 2 times multivitamin and some xenadrine.

Could it be he needs potassium?

Also important point this person

1. never trained
2. is a girl
3.obviously trying to lose weight
4. weighs 120lbs

08-23-2001, 07:43 AM
I added in cardio, 3-4x a week. Other than that everything is the same.

majsi98, what are her keto ratio's? Is she supplementing with fiber? How about calcium/magnesium? Any anti-oxidents? drinking enough water? These things are very important on a keto diet.

Is she very highly active? If so, I wouldn't do a keto diet....

Get her to train, she will enjoy the carb load, too.

She weighs 120lbs and needs to lose fat? Definately get her to train.

08-23-2001, 10:08 AM
no she s actualy just taking multivitamins and xenadrine, today started supplementing with some potassium and a combination of some sodium called electro something not sure about it ....

However she is strictly on zero carbs not even some green veg i think she must add them what do you thinks

Thanks a lot cack

08-23-2001, 11:21 AM
Wait a minute, I need to jump in here--

I'm assuming this girl is a teenager? She doesn't need to be doing any kind of ketogenic diet if she doesn't train, is a teenager, and WEIGHS 120 POUNDS.

I can't make that clear enough-- I don't even like ketogenic diets for trained bodybuilders. But for a teenage girl at 120 lbs, its out of the question.

If she wants to lose "weight" so much, she needs to get in the gym, not do some crazy fad diet.

08-24-2001, 12:21 AM
Yes power she started training this very week. I ve never been on a ckd diet so I actually don't know much about it. Yes she is a teenager btw.

Thanks a lot

08-24-2001, 07:01 AM
If she has no training history, weights or cardio, then she is better off just eating healthier and upping her activity before getting into drastic diets and xenadrine!

Not to be mean, but this sounds like typical female "I wanna lose weight FAST" behavior. It is not healthy and not a long term solution, especially if she really is at a healthy weight (like 120 lbs) and doesn't need to lose.

If she's a teenager, her body is still growing and changing...not the time to mess with your metabolism. Be careful...

08-24-2001, 08:54 AM
I'm a teenager. I'm still alive. I'm still growing.

Anyhow, keto weakens the immune system quite a bit. I went out to get my mail this morning and ended up sick. Not really, but after adding cardio I feel like total ****. I started with 10 minutes, then 10 minutes with higher intensity, now 15 minutes this morning, 15 again tomorrow, then 20 and so on. I'm doing interval training which I shouldn't be doing in ketosis, but oh well.

Look a lot leaner this morning, tanning helps a lot. I'm a stimulant junky now though, only temporarily. No more trouble sleeping though, must have just been....hell I dunno.

Energy levels = ace.

Weight, not yet....gonna weigh myself and take bodyfat % Friday.

I figure 2 more weeks of this, depending. I also never got ANY of the negative effects of ketosis, keto breath, low energy levels, hard time concetrating, etc etc...so that's quite ace.

08-24-2001, 09:13 AM
if you tense your abs can you feel bumps?

08-24-2001, 05:15 PM
God forgot my abs...

I felt all energized and hyper today for some reason, so I ate some twizzlers and trained upper body (legs were still sore). Had a great workout, everything progressed and just felt extremely strong (albiet in reality I'm weak)....one of the best workouts I've had in a long time. Cravings from hell earlier today but I didn;t give in. I'm gonna be on this mofo for 5 more week because Sinep, Chicken Daddy and I are going to have a mini BB contest in 5 weeks....for fun (read: bragging rights :)). I'm trying to get Latty to join but he's too pussy, haha.

I've noticed that taking creatine prevents my muscles from becoming flat during ketosis. I loaded creatine during the first carb load and am maintaning every day with 2g.

Weight - 162lbs, ack!
Innaccurate Bodyfat% - 5.9%

08-25-2001, 05:38 PM

08-25-2001, 06:31 PM
Yes, that's extremely funny.....

08-26-2001, 09:07 PM
Well, I think I'm holding a bit of water cuz I was eating like 6000mg sodium, so I decided to drop a lot.....

New diet...

Meal 1 - 9:00am

4oz ground beef
1tbs olive oil
1 cap dymetadrine
1 cup green tea
multivitamin, cal/mag, 10g glutamine, 3g creatine

Meal 2 - 12:00pm

4oz chicken
2 tbs olive oil
1 cup green tea

Meal 3 - 3:00pm

6oz steak
1 cap dymetadrine
1 cup green tea

Meal 4 - 6:00pm

4oz chicken
2 tbs olive oil

Meal 5 - 9:00pm

4oz ground beef
1 tbs olive oil
1 cap dymetadrine
1 multivitamin, 1 cal/mag, 10g glutamine

'Bout 2000 cals, 120 protein and 160 fat.

Meal timing isn't exact...cuz I don't have a set sleep/wake schedule.

Cardio wears me the fook out, but my cardiovascular shape is improving extremely fast...so that's ace.

Gonna be tweaking this thing a bit in the coming weeks....

08-28-2001, 09:08 AM
OK lately I've felt like total ****, especially in the morning. I'm thinking it's probably just because I'm very low bodyfat, and this isn;t a very good state to be in....but I look ace, haha. I'm just about ready to end this thing because I'm quite sick of cutting and eager to start bulking again. I got a little bit more bodyfat to lose still before I'm in contest shape, which shouldn't take too long and I'll prolly get there before the 5 week mark when me, sinep and chicken daddy are posting so I'll just take pics early and be done with it.

I've been consistent straight through except for when I was sick that day. So, diet was on, water on, and I slept 10 hours last night. Gonna train tomorrow and Friday. I liked the CKD a lot better, may go back to it.

08-28-2001, 04:57 PM
Besides the fact that I ate a little too much lobster, cuz I couldn't resist everything was perfect. The lobster goes fine with keto anyway, though I think I ate a little too much protein and not enough fat. I did about 30 minutes of cardio today helping my poor old grandma move, haha. Cals are staying at 1900-2000, and school starts Wednesday but I;'m not sure whether or not I'm going. Really no big deal, just do what I want anyway, and I joined this nutrition class, muahahah.

Training was scheduled for today but since I had to help old grandma move I rescheduled for tomorrow. These stimulants make me sweat like a mofo whenever I try to do something.

Weight: Take it tomorrow morning, still got some lobster in me :)

I do look leaner, though.

08-29-2001, 08:23 PM
Forgot to take weight this morning, do it tomorrow if I remember. I ate 40g of carbs (mmm, twizzlers) half an hour before a workout with an ECA and green tea in me, trained for about an hour and 15 minutes and i fookin stubbed my toe and my foot kept cramping but I got through my workout ok. Nothing really progressed enough to note, upped DB presses by 5lbs but it was no PR, I don't think I ate enough carbs. Diet is perfect, water is on, and I got all my supps in.

Weight and bf% tomorrow.

08-30-2001, 09:26 AM
Wieight - 159lbs :swear:
Bf% - Well the calipers said 4.9%, LOL...I'm actually now about 6%.

Weight is dropping a little too quickly for my liking, so I'm upping the cals a bit, back to 2100.

That's all.

09-01-2001, 05:09 PM
Going back to a CKD, seem to be losing too much weight (muscle?) with a TKD and it's a fookin bitch to stick to, so back to CKD. Lyle has been going on about ketosis not being protein sparing at all, just the cyclical aspect of it, the carb loads re-build any lost muscle mass and prevent thyroid/metabolism downregulation. I dunno if I completely agree with that, but it's plausible and seems to be quite accurate as far as TKD VS CKD.

Can't wait to bulk dammit. Gonna deplete myself and carb load tomorrow, so that'll be ace.

09-03-2001, 04:56 PM
Carb load was pretty ace, but I fucked it up somewhat for playing football for 3 hours, tried to make it up and todays workout went fine so I'm good. Trained upper body today and did 15 minutes interval training. Lower body tomorrow (if it's not still sore, right now I'm pretty sore from playing football yesterday), cals are down to 1700, with 125 protein and 135 fat, 2 more weeks and I'm done, so I won't be as lean for that little comp thingy...fook it I wanna bulk.

Weight - 162lbs, WTF?
Innaccurate Bodyfat% - 4.6%

09-03-2001, 06:20 PM
so I won't be as lean for that little comp thingy...

Muahahahaha!........Prepare to face defeat!

*Looks at lightweight trophy with Proteen's name on it*

09-04-2001, 07:15 AM
I'm not quite sure what the hell happened but I felt fucked up last night. I felt like I was going to puke but I never did, I had hot/cold spells, and I think I was starting to get a panic attack (get em sometimes). My mood was also very odd, felt depressed and worried about something but couldn't pinpoint it, ended up not being able to sleep. Not very fun at all, I don't think it's diet or supp related, but it was odd. I got all my food, water, and supps in. Ended up only getting 6 hours of sleep and my legs are sore as hell still so I guess it's just interval training today.

09-10-2001, 09:15 AM
wher've u got too cack???

09-10-2001, 05:51 PM
Ended keto Friday.

Start of diet: 170lbs at 9.6% (154lbs LBM, 16lbs fat)
End of diet: 159lbs at 4.1% (152lbs LBM, 7lbs fat)

Then again, I suck at math.

09-12-2001, 06:32 AM
Don't forget to take your pics before bulking up again... at 4.1% you should be glutes ripped

09-12-2001, 08:48 AM
I hope you're OK Justin, with current events 'un all...

Maki Riddington
09-25-2001, 08:09 AM

09-25-2001, 08:16 AM
Bump what?

Maki Riddington
09-25-2001, 08:25 AM
Well... whats up?

09-25-2001, 08:33 AM

09-25-2001, 01:17 PM