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_-_v_-_
04-30-2003, 05:12 PM
Quick question for those who have experience w/ such things... (I think Gino and Callahan both have mentioned flag football...)

I have several hours of flag football on Saturday, which is a good thing.

I'm currently cutting (roughly isocalorically, with refeeds of course), which isn't a good thing.

My question, therefore, regards how to structure my diet to ensure optimum performance in the game(s). The way I see it, there are three possibilities:

1) Continue to cut and play anyway. This sounds painful.

2) Eat @ maintenance/slightly above maintenance for Thursday and Friday.

3) Refeed on Friday only (typical high-carb refeed...600 g carb or so). Return to my normal diet (cutting) on Saturday.

Any suggestions? Thanks all.

Ironman8
04-30-2003, 05:31 PM
IMO, you should have your refeed on Friday, eat slightly above maintanace on Saturday, and go back on your diet on Sunday.

Get your body ready on Friday with the carbs, then on Saturday, since you're gonna be running for a few hours, eat above maintanace, because you'll need the food to play your best, and you'll probably burn most of the calories off. And on Sunday, go back to your diet.

Berserker
04-30-2003, 05:38 PM
I don't play football, but I would eat good on saturday before and after playing. I am speaking strictly from my bowels though.

Majestic
04-30-2003, 06:31 PM
Flag football?

Then you need 2 bowls of Barry Sanders cereal, followed by some Gayle Sayers toast, capped with a Deion Sanders protein shake.

And for the last time, STAY AWAY FROM THE KRYPTONITE!tuttut

Ironman8
04-30-2003, 06:53 PM
LOL! I thought you need two helpings of a bowl of nails? :D

_-_v_-_
05-01-2003, 10:46 AM
Thanks for the responses, all.

For those more familiar with carbohydrate metabolism -- would a 12-hour refeed (600-700 g carbs) on Friday result in sufficient glycogen storage for several hours of football on Saturday? Or should the refeed begin earlier?

Isaac Wilkins
05-01-2003, 10:52 AM
V, what time are you playing on Saturday?

As long as it is not too early in the morning, Friday should be fine as a refeed day.

I'd have a pretty hearty post-football meal, too.



Yes, that would be a sufficient amount of carbs, given your size.



Also, if you're cutting, here's another thing to consider: If you're playing football for several hours, I'd bet that's more activity than you do during the rest of the week. This will increase your caloric needs. So, yes, on Friday and Saturday, bump your cals. Given your activity, use carbs to bump the calories.

_-_v_-_
05-01-2003, 11:08 AM
The game(s) -- there will be many, likely -- begin at noon.

So my Friday refeed should be even larger than my normal refeed -- i.e., if my normal refeeds are around, say, 600g carb, this should be even larger?

Edit: Would it be fair to say that, due to the amount of activity on Saturday, I needn't worry about spillover no matter how many carbs I eat (within reason and appetite, of course).

WillKuenzel
05-01-2003, 11:12 AM
Does it matter if the carbs are low or high on the GI as you are going to be doing lots of work the next day and this isn't just a simple refeed for recovery?

Isaac Wilkins
05-01-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by _-_v_-_
The game(s) -- there will be many, likely -- begin at noon.

So my Friday refeed should be even larger than my normal refeed -- i.e., if my normal refeeds are around, say, 600g carb, this should be even larger?

Are you keeping your refeed day to dieting cals?

600g should be fine.

You're cutting on 2300ish cals/day, correct?

Ok. So...
150gp (~bodyweight) = 600cals.
600gc = 2400cals
50gf (relatively low) = 450cals

Total = 3450 cals. That should do you.

I pulled the fat calories out of my ass, but that should be realistic.

Post-game: Go eat a good sized meal, with protein and carbs.

For example, find the weak link on the losing team, stuff him with your carb of choice, and eat him.

_-_v_-_
05-01-2003, 11:25 AM
Actually, my refeeds have been relatively in accord with what I believed to be the guidelines -- minimal fat (what fat there was came from fish oil caps), generally about 600 g C / 150 g protein.

I've actually been dropping cals below 2300 recently (1900-2000), and seem to be doing okay -- strength is relatively fine, etc...

So I should keep my refeed as it's been?

Relentless
05-01-2003, 11:27 AM
My recommendation (dunno if this is the BEST approach but its the one I take):

eat as you normally would
but

an hour before the game, get a protein shake (with carbs) and some dextrose into you

taking some ephedrine might be good to get you into high gear, say 1/2 hour before you start

maybe 3-4 ibuprofen wouldn't be amiss a half hour before either, to help prepare your body for the pain it will go thru, esp. if
you're not used to playing

get some gatorade or whatever to sip during the game

that'll do ya

I am on keto right now and even so this extra carb doesn't kick me out because I burn so much when playing...

_-_v_-_
05-01-2003, 11:39 AM
If I weren't dieting, that's exactly what I'd do. The reason I raise the refeed question is because I'm due for one anyway tomorrow, and didn't know if it would negatively impact performance -- whether or not I should just postpone it till Sunday, say, in lieu of another approach.

Isaac Wilkins
05-01-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by _-_v_-_
If I weren't dieting, that's exactly what I'd do. The reason I raise the refeed question is because I'm due for one anyway tomorrow, and didn't know if it would negatively impact performance -- whether or not I should just postpone it till Sunday, say, in lieu of another approach.

I think that you'll find benefit in both the refeed and the exercise.

The higher calorie refeed (ok, 15-20g of fat if that's how you do it) will give you energy for the exercise. The exercise will stimulate fat loss/caloric expenditure. You'll take in more calories, you'll burn more calories, your metabolism will rev, you'll continue to diet better.

Partitioning, baby.

I'd generally follow Cal's advice, it's sound. The ibuprofen is up to you, I play full pads ball and I rarely use OTC painkillers.

Read the sticky at the top of this page about refeeds, if you haven't already. In effect, you're going to be eating relevant to your activity.

bradley
05-01-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by _-_v_-_
The game(s) -- there will be many, likely -- begin at noon.

So my Friday refeed should be even larger than my normal refeed -- i.e., if my normal refeeds are around, say, 600g carb, this should be even larger?

Edit: Would it be fair to say that, due to the amount of activity on Saturday, I needn't worry about spillover no matter how many carbs I eat (within reason and appetite, of course).

I agree with Borris in that the refeed should stay the same and that cals should be higher on Saturday due to the increased activity. The refeed should be causing a little spillover, and more would not necessarily be better. Make sure and stay well hydrated throughout the course of the day on Saturday and I would have some gatorade or some type of carb handy to sip on throughout the game. After the game(s) are over have a good sized whole food meal and continue with your diet the following day.

I

bradley
05-01-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Does it matter if the carbs are low or high on the GI as you are going to be doing lots of work the next day and this isn't just a simple refeed for recovery?

When referring to a refeed I think the amount of carbs is more important than the glycemic index. Most people begin the refeed by consuming high GI carbs and towards the last couple of meals begin consuming low GI carbs to kind of taper off so to speak.

_-_v_-_
05-01-2003, 02:26 PM
Borris,

I've already read the sticky and have perused misc.fitness.weights for a while -- if there's anything I'm not picking up on here, please let me know.

Thanks for the advice, all. I'll pick up an ECA and about 700 g of carbs and I should be set.

Relentless
05-01-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Borris
I'd generally follow Cal's advice, it's sound. The ibuprofen is up to you, I play full pads ball and I rarely use OTC painkillers.

My asusmption was that -v- isn't playing a lot...

I wouldn't NORMALLY pop some tylenol, but if it's the first game or two in a season? Yeah.

Then again I'm getting old. ;)

_-_v_-_
05-01-2003, 03:25 PM
I actually play quite a bit -- and I do an ungodly amount of sprinting / agility work weekly to prepare for it.

Hey. I'm a perfectionist, I guess -- actually caring about / practicing for friendly flag football :)

bradley
05-01-2003, 04:26 PM
This is off topic but wanted to post this link to for HY in regards to his question above.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30313

Isaac Wilkins
05-01-2003, 04:36 PM
V: Yeah, I assumed you had. I just wanted to reference it in case you hadn't.

Cal: I've no problem with him using the ibuprofen. I just personally don't.

_-_v_-_
05-01-2003, 07:33 PM
Just out of curiousity...

Since I've never taken ECA before, anyone know if it's contraindicated for individuals who use albuterol-based asthma medication?

noraa
05-02-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by _-_v_-_
Thanks for the responses, all.

For those more familiar with carbohydrate metabolism -- would a 12-hour refeed (600-700 g carbs) on Friday result in sufficient glycogen storage for several hours of football on Saturday? Or should the refeed begin earlier?

10g/kg or 4.5g/lb carbs over that period should be enough to maximise glycogen load. Do it depends. If your 200lbsm thats about 900g.

Depending on the time of the game on saturday, take in a reasonable carb breakfast, and a 1-2g/kg carb meal 1-2 hours prior to the game. A carb based (~6%) drink during the game can be moderately useful as well.