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DowntoBusiness
04-30-2003, 05:50 PM
Morning 6:30am
3 whole eggs
I will add 1cup coffee (with 1tbsp heavy cream) next week when I get some damn cream :)

in between class snack 9:30
1oz peanuts

11:30 lunch
22g tuna
1tbsp olive oil
lettuce leaves

2:30
salad w/ 2tbsp balasmic vinegarette dressing
4oz chicken breast

4:00 workout

5:00
40g whey

6:00
22g tuna
1tbsp olive oil
mixed veggies

9:00
procomplex pm
1.5tbsp flax

Totals 1772 cals 109g fat 10g carbs 154g protein
around 154-156lbs @ 5'8-9" right now

Everything look in check?

Ironman8
04-30-2003, 05:53 PM
Well, you calories are too low for your weight.

DowntoBusiness
04-30-2003, 07:17 PM
I was told around 1770-1850 (at current weight) on a regular cutting diet, would I up it for a CKD?

Ironman8
04-30-2003, 07:23 PM
Who told you that many calories? I was around the the same weight and height at you when I cut, and I lose weight at 2,300 cals.

Did you experiment? Like taking in a number of calories, and gradually dropping down until you lose a pound per week?

Blood&Iron
04-30-2003, 07:27 PM
Looks fine to me.

Boring.

But fine.

DowntoBusiness
04-30-2003, 07:42 PM
The cals formula came from Chris Aceto, I think it was like 25-26 cals x weight in kilos (mines roughly 70)

One last question, should I still only go up to around 1800 cals on carb up days?

bradley
05-01-2003, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by DowntoBusiness
I was told around 1770-1850 (at current weight) on a regular cutting diet, would I up it for a CKD?

You will definitely need more. Here is an article that should answer your question concerning the carb load.

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/mcdonald/carb-up-and-ketogenic-diet.htm

bradley
05-01-2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by DowntoBusiness
5:00
40g whey



This could kick you out of ketosis due to the whey being converted to glucose but I am not for sure if 40g would be enough to cause this to happen. Might throw some fat in there for good measure.


I was told around 1770-1850 (at current weight) on a regular cutting diet, would I up it for a CKD?

I am not saying this is wrong but I would go up to at least 200 cals at the beginning because you can always drop the cals if you aren't losing weight. Best of luck with the diet.

DowntoBusiness
05-01-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by bradley


This could kick you out of ketosis due to the whey being converted to glucose but I am not for sure if 40g would be enough to cause this to happen. Might throw some fat in there for good measure.


I am not saying this is wrong but I would go up to at least 200 cals at the beginning because you can always drop the cals if you aren't losing weight. Best of luck with the diet.

I guess I know where those 200 cals are coming from :)

bradley
05-01-2003, 03:37 AM
Should say go up to 2000 cals:)

GhettoSmurf
05-01-2003, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by bradley
Should say go up to 2000 cals:)

i agree

Ironman8
05-01-2003, 07:11 AM
LOL!

I still think experimenting is the way to go. Like starting at 2,500 calories, and reduce until you lose a pound per week.

bradley
05-01-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Ironman8
LOL!

I still think experimenting is the way to go. Like starting at 2,500 calories, and reduce until you lose a pound per week.

Well I am assuming that he has some knowledge of what his calorie intake should be, as he has performed the CKD before I believe. At 159lbs., 2000 cals a day on a cut sounds about right, assuming that he is not performing a large amount of activity (i.e. cardio, playing sports, etc.).

I agree in that you should in the end experiment with your calorie levels to find the specific level that works the best for you, but there is no point in starting at high amount just to work your way down over two weeks, when you already have an "idea" of what your calorie intake should be. That would just mean 2 more weeks of dieting, which is not ideal IMO.

DowntoBusiness
05-01-2003, 01:01 PM
I am at around a 1lb~ish right now but I'll bump it to 2000 to see how things go. 2tbsp cream will be added to postworkout drink. Now if I can just find those lentils I bought last week...

noraa
05-02-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Ironman8
Well, you calories are too low for your weight.

I cut on 1800kcal, and I weigh 220-230.

Depends on your activity level, I do very little all day, and very little cardio.


This could kick you out of ketosis due to the whey being converted to glucose but I am not for sure if 40g would be enough to cause this to happen. Might throw some fat in there for good measure
And being in ketosis means what??

basically, next to nothing in the overall fat loss picture.

bradley
05-03-2003, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by noraa
And being in ketosis means what??

basically, next to nothing in the overall fat loss picture.

Well the whole goal of performing the CKD is to remain in ketosis throughout the week and then carb load on the weekends. I am not doubting the fact that weight loss depends more on calories in versus calories out but if his goal is to perform a ketogenic diet and remain in ketosis throughout the week, then why not bring this informtion to his attention?

Some people find that ketogenic diets are easier for them to stick with than say a more balanced approach. In the end if you prefer a CKD over a more balanced approach then I would stick with what works best.

Being able to stick to a diet means a lot in the overall fat loss picture.

GhettoSmurf
05-03-2003, 06:01 AM
i plan on possibly doing a CKD when im done bulking (which will probably be a LOOONG tim, but i want to be prepared and ready and informed about the CKD early. i was wondering, when i plan on starting the CKD, should i dro pmy carb intake imediately, or should i take a week to gradually lower it, and then start the CKD?

bradley
05-03-2003, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by GhettoSmurf
i plan on possibly doing a CKD when im done bulking (which will probably be a LOOONG tim, but i want to be prepared and ready and informed about the CKD early. i was wondering, when i plan on starting the CKD, should i dro pmy carb intake imediately, or should i take a week to gradually lower it, and then start the CKD?

As far as making the transition to the low carb diet I would recommend slowly replacing carbs with fat. Maybe over the course of a week or two. The main thing to consider when going from bulking to cutting is to not drop cals too quickly.

Although there is no physiological reason as to why you couldn't drop the carbs altogether and replace them with fat. Might be a rough transition though.

I am curious as to why you would want to go the CKD route. What do you see as the main advantage of this diet? I am asking just to get your perspective on it. What do you see as the main advantage over a more balanced diet?

Big & Tall
05-03-2003, 11:34 AM
I'm doing a ckd and I think it has several advantages over a normal cutting diet. They tend to be far less catabolic for one, and despite cutting calories, I am almost never hungry. I have even been making (mild) strength gains while in caloric deficit. And it's really fun to eat bacon every morning and still lose weight :evillaugh

btw, I went cold turkey on carbs (no pun intended) and it went fine for me, but I guess that is mostly psychological.

Downtobusiness--I would say add some more fat. I think you should have more fat grams than prot per day to get the maximum benefit from this sort of diet.

bradley
05-03-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Big & Tall


Downtobusiness--I would say add some more fat. I think you should have more fat grams than prot per day to get the maximum benefit from this sort of diet. [/B]

I actually got to looking at Downtobusiness' ratios and they only add up to 1637 cals which is less than the 1772 originally stated. If you fill in those missing 135 cals with fat the ratio works out much better. Comes out to be 63%fat/34%protein and trace carbs.


Totals 1772 cals 109g fat 10g carbs 154g protein
around 154-156lbs @ 5'8-9" right now

Everything look in check?

The breakdown would look something like this:

154g protein
124g of fat
10g of carbs

Once he added in the other cals from fat as he stated above that would bring the ratio up to about

154g of protein
149g of fat
10g of carbs

GhettoSmurf
05-03-2003, 07:24 PM
there was actually a really good CKD nutrient calculator i saw on a site

you simply enter in your weight, and it basically lays it out for u. ill try to find the link.

bradley
05-04-2003, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by GhettoSmurf
there was actually a really good CKD nutrient calculator i saw on a site

you simply enter in your weight, and it basically lays it out for u. ill try to find the link.

Well if you eat 1g of fat per 1g of protein then it will come out about right. Give or take a little for the trace amount of carbs.

GhettoSmurf
05-04-2003, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by bradley


Well if you eat 1g of fat per 1g of protein then it will come out about right. Give or take a little for the trace amount of carbs.

yeah but ive heard that you can also get kicked out of ketosis by eating too much protein?

bradley
05-04-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by GhettoSmurf


yeah but ive heard that you can also get kicked out of ketosis by eating too much protein?

That is true but if you are following the 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight then you shouldn't have to worry about excess protein.

I now see that I probably should have said eat 1g of protein per lb of bw and then fill in the rest of your cals with fat (along with trace amounts of carbs). This still eliminates the need for a calculator. The ketogenic diet is pretty straightforward.

GhettoSmurf
05-04-2003, 11:36 AM
heres the link to the site, i just thought it was sort of neat. but i can see how it might not totally be accurate, to get your BMR it does 12*the BW u enter. and depending on metabolism it could vary. but still, i thought it was sort of neat.

http://www.noetzel.net/ckd/

Ironman8
05-04-2003, 01:24 PM
Nice! Mr.X is very informative.

noraa
05-05-2003, 03:26 AM
Some people find that ketogenic diets are easier for them to stick with than say a more balanced approach. In the end if you prefer a CKD over a more balanced approach then I would stick with what works best.

Being able to stick to a diet means a lot in the overall fat loss picture.

Ketosis really means nothing, its not the ketones per se that provides the anoretic effect.

bradley
05-05-2003, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by noraa


Ketosis really means nothing, its not the ketones per se that provides the anoretic effect.

I agree.

Tankette
05-05-2003, 08:56 AM
I'm not cutting right now, but when I do...If I try CKD, should I change the data b/c I am female? Many caloric calculators have different data for males and females of the same weight.

Also...the CKD worksheet has my caloric range for the week between 1197 and 1071 w/ 1638 cals during carb up. Right now, I'm trying to add weight and am eating 2100 cal. But God am I still hungry all of the time (even right after I eat). Does 2100 seem right?
5'3", 105 LBS, weights 3 x wk, cardio 3 x wk

bradley
05-05-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Tankette
I'm not cutting right now, but when I do...If I try CKD, should I change the data b/c I am female? Many caloric calculators have different data for males and females of the same weight.

Also...the CKD worksheet has my caloric range for the week between 1197 and 1071 w/ 1638 cals during carb up.

IMO calculators that supposedly calculate your caloric needs are not very accurate. They do not take into account things like activity level, metabolism, and amount of LBM. For example a person that is lifting 3x a week and performing cardio 3x a week will need more cals than someone who is only lifting 3x a week and not performing any cardio.

The best way to determine your caloric needs is to decrease/increase cals in small increments each week until you are gaining/losing the desired amount each week.


Right now, I'm trying to add weight and am eating 2100 cal. But God am I still hungry all of the time (even right after I eat). Does 2100 seem right?
5'3", 105 LBS, weights 3 x wk, cardio 3 x wk


Are you gaining at this calorie intake? If so how much are you gaining each week? You can eat some veggies with each meal to help keep you full betweem meals, and also more fat in your diet can help you feel full longer.

Tankette
05-05-2003, 06:34 PM
Yes, I'm gaining, but VERY slowly. I've gained about 1lb per month. I'm upping my fat intake a lot thanks to advice on another thread..."Diet Advice." I'll try this for a week and see where I am. I'll take you up on those veggies...I'm a teacher, and when kids look edible, you know you're hungry.:D

bradley
05-06-2003, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by Tankette
Yes, I'm gaining, but VERY slowly. I've gained about 1lb per month. I'm upping my fat intake a lot thanks to advice on another thread..."Diet Advice." I'll try this for a week and see where I am. I'll take you up on those veggies...I'm a teacher, and when kids look edible, you know you're hungry.:D

If you are gaining a pound per month then you could up the cals a little IMO. Maybe try bumping them up by about 200 or so and see what kind of results you get.

Tankette
05-06-2003, 06:56 AM
Thanks guys, just what I needed to hear...I'm starving as usual!!!