Go KD and Isocal would result in what and why?

[Fenbay]

Ok, I'd like for some of you dietary gurus to comment on this and if you don't mind shed some light on the actual physiological processes involved.

I'll do some of my own research in the meantime as well.

Ok, almost everyone agrees that losing weight too fast results in muscle loss as well....why? Specifically, if I am consuming sufficient or even above sufficient amounts of protein (the building block of muscle tissue right), working out to cause hypertrophy so the muscles want to rebuild etc. why would my body catabolize (is that a word?) my existing muscle tissue for protein?

Let's also keep in mind that I am 20's BF% right now (down from 30's) so I have plenty of fat stores for my body to consume and convert into glucose/glycogen whatever for necessary energy.

I'm sure there is something I'm missing here since I'm a diet neophyte, but just being logical about things doesn't seem to explain this to me.

1) Get in ketosis = body burn fat for energy

2) Isocaloric = create a deficit for your body's energy needs <burn even MORE fat>

3) Protein intake high = body has necessary nutrients for anabolic muscle building

4) Lifting hard = hypertrophy so body wants to rebuild that muscle


I realize I'm oversimplifying a process that we obviously don't have all the answers for or else there'd be no fat people.

So enlighten me as to why I'd drop muscle with the fat llb's!

Let's not even take into account supplements for sake of this argument.

Edit: Also consider that regular refeeds of some sort take place to keep Leptin levels up as the cyclical theory seems to have some major backing these days.

[bradley]

This might be somewhat helpful:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=muscle+loss+dieting+author:Lyle+author:McDonald&start=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=r&selm=3C545F1A.4A8A7AC8%40onr.com&rnum=15

You must also take into account that if you create too large of a caloric deficit your body will go into starvation mode due to the large caloric deficit to preserve what stored energy it has.

[Fenbay]

Excellent read Bradley. But what I'm taking away from that leads me to believe that re-feeds along with some supplementation (had to go there) might negate the majority of the negative hormonal changes brought about by such a strict diet.

Now, would the body go into "starvation mode" on a massive deficit in 1 day? 1 week? etc ...IE when to space the refeeds to maximize leptin and other hormonal changes. I guess that's another search ..."best time for refeeds".....

[greekboy80]

Fenbay i agree with you. sometimes i believe that bodybuilders look to deeply in to things. what ever happend to work out hard as hell, and get muscle? i also cut by a CKD. what you said is what i believe also. i also believe that EVERYONE is diffrent. not one person can tell you what is right and wrong. if it works for you...great! if not change. bodies are the greatest mechanial inventions on this planet. i think that over time they adapt and adjust to what you are feeding it. i do believe that there is science behind phisiology..dont get me wrong. but, its basicly trial and error, just like everything else in the world. thats natures way.

[bradley]

Originally posted by Fenbay
Excellent read Bradley. But what I'm taking away from that leads me to believe that re-feeds along with some supplementation (had to go there) might negate the majority of the negative hormonal changes brought about by such a strict diet.



I am sure this is the case. For example if you are using AAS then you could cut cals to a greater degree and hold onto more LBM than someone who is going the natural route.


Now, would the body go into "starvation mode" on a massive deficit in 1 day? 1 week? etc ...IE when to space the refeeds to maximize leptin and other hormonal changes. I guess that's another search ..."best time for refeeds".....

Well this would be determined by different factors. For example someone who is at 20% bodyfat would be able to diet longer because leptin levels would not have dropped enough to cause the brain to slow down that individuals metabolic rate. Hence the reason that the lower your bf gets the more often you have to refeed to jump start your metabolism.