Should Females Be Allowed To Compete With Men?

[Maki Riddington]

I'm curious to hear your opinions.

An example of this would be the controversy surrounding Vjay Singh's comment towards female golfer Annika Sorenstam. He has said that she should not be allowed to play in the men's tour. Currently, Annika is ranked number 1 in women's golf.

[hemants]

In Annika's case I see no reason why she shouldn't be allowed to compete if she wants to.

But the devil's advocate in me wonders what would happen if a man wanted to play the LPGA?

I don't think it's a big deal and I actually look forward to seeing Annika. I saw a documentary on her and she was doing heavy squats and weighted chinups as preperation. She is not to be messed with!

[Manveet]

In golf, sure. Golf is not really a sport imo.

[GhettoSmurf]

i agree with emants, i dont see a problem with it, but them what would happen IF a man wanted to participate in the same sport but in a womans league?

[ryan1117]

Sure...........as long as men could play in the LPGA.

Obviously this would never happen. There is also NO WAY to spin things around to make it sound like that scenario would be any different from the current one.

[galileo]

Yes. Especially jello wrestling.

[WillKuenzel]

I don't see why it has to be both ways. If women don't feel they are getting the competition amongst just themselves and would like to compete against men then why not let them. I think it would bring more publicity, more revenue, and create more competition for any sport that allows it.

If women were allowed to play in the men's leagues though, I think they shouldn't separate them at all. Combine them and just let the best of the best play. This might mean that less women get recognized though. Would they want that?

[Tackleberry]

Up until homeyield's comment i said "no way, that is what the LPGA is for". But he had a good point.

Does annika dominate the LPGA? if she is really looking for more competition, then i think it is fine.

[IceRgrrl]

If she's run out of challenges playing with the women, is at the top of her game and wants to see how she fares against the men, why not let her try it and see what happens? In general, men are physically stronger and better at most sports, so a woman playing against men is taking on theoretically "harder competition." A man playing in the LPGA would theoretically be playing against "easier competition" and thus the reverse wouldn't make much sense.

It's like house vs. travel level hockey or softball or soccer when you were a kid. A house player could get pulled up to a travel team (i.e., moving up to harder competition) but a travel player could not play down at the house level (i.e., moving to a lower level of play).

Incidentally, Hayley Wickenheiser--a Canadian women's hockey team superstar--played in a professional men's hockey league this season in Finland. As the "best women's hockey player in the world," she felt that playing with the men would raise her level of play. She became the first woman to score (plus a bunch of assists) as a skater in a men's pro hockey game. She took a lot of heat for her decision to play in Finland, but felt that she needed more of a challenge. She was a regular player and contributed to the team throughout the season and is considering going back next season as well.

[WillKuenzel]

Originally posted by IceRgrrl
If she's run out of challenges playing with the women, is at the top of her game and wants to see how she fares against the men, why not let her try it and see what happens? In general, men are physically stronger and better at most sports, so a woman playing against men is taking on theoretically "harder competition." A man playing in the LPGA would theoretically be playing against "easier competition" and thus the reverse wouldn't make much sense.
Exactly, I just didn't know if it would offend the women if I said that. There has got to be plenty of women that could compete with guys. Why not let them if they are completely dominating their sport?

[IceRgrrl]

I don't follow golf (I personally think it is a silly game and not worthy of the title "sport" :p ) but I do read the sports section/Sports Illustrated and Annika is the #1 golfer in the LPGA---that is why she is looking into playing on the PGA.

[heathj]

No...she shouldn't.

[ElPietro]

What bothers me, is that the women's association is called the LPGA, the "L" standing for "Lady's". So what if the PGA tour just changed their status to the MPGA tour? I bet a lot of butches from the equal rights groups would start raising hell. So if the best women can compete in the men's tour, why couldn't the bottom of the barrel pga tour players, or guys that missed PGA qualifying school go play on the womens tour? So what, they swallow their pride and admit they can't compete with other top male golfers, so they go to the women's side. This is equality yes? I bet women would have a problem with that.

Sure men are stronger on average. There are also comfort levels in sport as well, and maybe some guys don't feel comfortable competing against women in what is inferred as a male league. Golf is one example, but what about something else, like say boxing. What if a chick that was so big and butchy couldn't find competition amongst women, and decided to compete against guys. Many guys despite their egos or whatever, would seriously have a problem fighting a women, regardless of how tough she is. There is a mental division of the sexes, and maybe it's more blurry in something like golf, but I'm not sure how good an idea it is.

Why can't she just be the Wayne Gretzky of golf? Hockey has already gone through this with Manon Rheaume. She started a few games, didn't do well, and faded into nothingness. She coulda just been know as one of the greatest female goalies, but now she has been a circus side show and a failure. So I'm guessing Annika will also stupidly do this and ruin her career.

Just my thoughts. I enjoy playing coed sports, and my hockey league was coed, but I know that I could ever play a girl the exact same way I would a guy.

[ryan1117]

It isn't as much people going from the PGA to LPGA, but maybe people coming up from amateur leagues to the LPGA. Some guy could be tearing it up in his "company" golf league and love the game of golf. Maybe he might be tired of dominating the people he plays against and wants to go up against golfers of equal skill. (lets say in his case it was the LPGA)

I'm just saying the same thing can be said for both genders.

[raniali]

Originally posted by ElPietro


Just my thoughts. I enjoy playing coed sports, and my hockey league was coed, but I know that I could never play a girl the same way I did a guy. No matter what.

great - i challenge you to a game of blackjack if i know you aren't going to play your best. ;)

[MrWebb78]

if she plays with men then she cant hit from the ladies tee, it has to be equal.

on a side note, i think all sports should try this coed thing....especially football, cuz after the first woman died they would finally stfu and realize that they cant compete with men

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by raniali


great - i challenge you to a game of blackjack if i know you aren't going to play your best. ;)

Would it be contact blackjack? :evillaugh

[raniali]

do we wrestle for dealing rights? i'm unclear on the concept of contact blackjack.

[ElPietro]

Me too, we'd have to make it up as we go along.

[body]

in some sports, its the insurance companies that do not allow males and females to compete agaisnt each other.

[MrWebb78]

i remember in high school a couple of burly b!tches beat some kids from my school. it was fairly impressive.

even had a freshman girl squat 405 at a school powerlifting meet, beat all the freshman boys.

since were all politically correct now....should we call them freshpeople? instead of freshman?

[Manveet]

Originally posted by IceRgrrl
If she's run out of challenges playing with the women, is at the top of her game and wants to see how she fares against the men, why not let her try it and see what happens? In general, men are physically stronger and better at most sports, so a woman playing against men is taking on theoretically "harder competition." A man playing in the LPGA would theoretically be playing against "easier competition" and thus the reverse wouldn't make much sense.

It's like house vs. travel level hockey or softball or soccer when you were a kid. A house player could get pulled up to a travel team (i.e., moving up to harder competition) but a travel player could not play down at the house level (i.e., moving to a lower level of play).

Incidentally, Hayley Wickenheiser--a Canadian women's hockey team superstar--played in a professional men's hockey league this season in Finland. As the "best women's hockey player in the world," she felt that playing with the men would raise her level of play. She became the first woman to score (plus a bunch of assists) as a skater in a men's pro hockey game. She took a lot of heat for her decision to play in Finland, but felt that she needed more of a challenge. She was a regular player and contributed to the team throughout the season and is considering going back next season as well.

I'm surprised she (Hayley) played the entire season with the men without sustaining an injury. Finnish players are not known for their toughness, but I would have thought at least one guy would have smoked her with a bodycheck, I know I would have.

[IceRgrrl]

Originally posted by Manveet


I'm surprised she (Hayley) played the entire season with the men without sustaining an injury. Finnish players are not known for their toughness, but I would have thought at least one guy would have smoked her with a bodycheck, I know I would have.

Oooookay, Manveet...and what level of hockey did you play? I think Hayley would kick your butt :p She's probably bigger than you too... :D

[ElPietro]

LOL, Manveet just got put in his place! :D

[Manveet]

Originally posted by IceRgrrl


Oooookay, Manveet...and what level of hockey did you play? I think Hayley would kick your butt :p She's probably bigger than you too... :D

I quit before Junior hockey.

[Rastaman]

LOL!

[Craig James]

Why do people watch sports?

The reason that I like to watch sports is to see great competition and amazing feats of athleticism. Or I might be supporting my team –(which, if it is the Cardinals football team, I rarely see any competition or feats of athleticism – unless it is from the opposing team).

Forget the ladies leagues for just a moment. All of the professional sports leagues should be gender neutral in regards to who can play. That means that if Anika Sorenstam can qualify and make it on the PGA, then good for her – she should have that opportunity. The same goes for the Williams sisters in tennis. They have indicated that they would be interested in playing with the men, and they should have that opportunity to do that.

Women should have the opportunity to try out for the NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB or any of the other professional sports. All of these leagues need to allow for the greatest possible talent available. And it is possible that some of that talent could come in a form that does not require the use of a jock strap.

As far as the women’s leagues go, they exist because there is an audience of people out there for them. I may not be able to tolerate watching WNBA action that was touted as “fundamentally sound basketball – better then the men!� But someone out there pays the money to watch it (I enjoy watching games down at the YMCA far more, but that is just me). The women’s leagues are just that – for women. That distinction has to be made to allow for competition at that level, and for marketing reasons. Men have no business trying to play in these leagues.

With all of that said, good luck to Anika. If she makes the cut to play on the weekend, it will be a minor miracle. She is going to get a big does of competition, and Tiger won’t even be in the field.

[ChrisH]

They have womens rugby in the UK, but none of them juice, so they'd get mashed if they came up against a male team of the same level.
I was thinking about sports the other day, not many people in the UK take playing sport too seriously. Compare that to the US, where quite a few people train **** loads while in high school. Obviously its good for the sport, but can't really be good for the guys/girls who aim high and miss, or get injured, and have nothing to fall back on. Sports are fun, keep em like that :)

[Alex.V]

I think the main point is being missed here.

The argument is that, essentially, she was put into the event for promotional purposes. Only a set amount of players are extended an invitation, and she was ostensibly extended an invite based on gender, while many more qualified male players were all in tight contention. Nevertheless, none of them made it, because she took one of their spots.

That's the argument.

Continue.

[Delphi]

The only reason Sorenstam is going to play is because she got one of the sponsor's exemptions. I predict she will compete miserably. Here's a good link discussing the issue:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golfonline/news/2003/05/12/singh_sorenstam_ap/

[Alex.V]

Ah, there you go.

[MrWebb78]

women should only be allowed to sing the national anthem at male events. or play the skin flute

[Maki Riddington]

If it's about women's rights then I can see the problem, otherwise I see no problem in her playing. I just hope she doesn't complain and whine afterwards.

We once played a women's soccer team back in the day. They came to us asking to play us and my coach agreed. Even though our coach advised us to go easy on them, I decided to play these girls like I would play against guys. I hit them, hacked their shins and pulled and pushed them around. Man, I've never heard more whining and complaing from a bunch of women before. After the scrimmage my coach vowed never again to play a female team.
It was a disaster.

[Budiak]

No, i dont think she will do any good for the PGA. I do think she will be beaten soundly. The average female pro golfer has a drive of over a hundred yards less than that of the average pro male golfer. What Anika does have is an incredible short game, but then again, all pros do.

I am afraid that if she gets beaten...badly...that it will seriously damage women's golf and perhaps women's sports as a whole. There is a market for them, yes, but whats the point of a women's league when women can play in the men's league besides the fact that they have one because they get thrashed by the men? of course I dont know this but I dont think many of us would contest that a women's football team would get slaughtered by a men's football team.

[Ironman8]

What happens if.... she wins?! I wonder if the Men's PGA will be scarred...

[Nights]

If she can play at the same level as them, then I see no problem with it. But she should have to earn the spot, not just get in because of the whole marketing gimmick behind it.

It's the same as everything else in my opinion. If they can perform to the same level, then let them do whatever. Don't go and lower the standard for them just because their female. That isn't right.

[Manveet]

Originally posted by Maki Riddington
If it's about women's rights then I can see the problem, otherwise I see no problem in her playing. I just hope she doesn't complain and whine afterwards.

We once played a women's soccer team back in the day. They came to us asking to play us and my coach agreed. Even though our coach advised us to go easy on them, I decided to play these girls like I would play against guys. I hit them, hacked their shins and pulled and pushed them around. Man, I've never heard more whining and complaing from a bunch of women before. After the scrimmage my coach vowed never again to play a female team.
It was a disaster.

Way to go Maki!:thumbup:

[Maki Riddington]

Thank you, I enjoyed every moment of it!

[GonePostal]

Women should not be allowed to play in the men's leauge. Why? Because it is the MENS league. We artificially separated the 2 genders because of physical differences and it should stay that way. Unless you want to make some co-ed league and run it in tandum/eliminate the other leauges (which IMO would be stupid).
Even if there are superior women just DOMINATING the women's league that is no arguement for them going to the men's league. What do the men that dominate do? Does Tiger Woods do? Women leaving women's leauges are traitors. They hurt women's leagues by leaving and lower the possibility of a higher level of competition in those leagues.

[Craig James]

Originally posted by Belial
I think the main point is being missed here.

The argument is that, essentially, she was put into the event for promotional purposes. Only a set amount of players are extended an invitation, and she was ostensibly extended an invite based on gender, while many more qualified male players were all in tight contention. Nevertheless, none of them made it, because she took one of their spots.

That's the argument.

Continue.

I see no problem with this what so ever. The sponsors are interested in getting their name out to as many people as possible in this event, and I think that they have made a very savvy move in using one of their sponsor exemptions to allow Anika to play in this tournament. The ratings will most likely be far higher then if they hadn't invited her.

In the matter of a more qualified male player losing his position to Anika, here is the way I see it - this player, and who knows who it would have been, did not do well enough to make it into the tournament on his own. He did not make the top 130 or whatever the number is to be eligible to attend. The sponsor has a certain number of exemptions that they use to bring players in that may have been solid in the past but have slipped recently, or perhaps to bring in a new up and coming player. That exemption is used at the sponsor’s sole discretion, and I see no problem with them sending an invite to the top female golfer in the world.

Now, whether she plays well or not should make for some interesting drama over the course of the tournament. If she plays well and competes, I see no problem with her continuing to get sponsor exemptions to upcoming events. If she plays poorly, then I think that most people will very quickly lose interest in seeing her get beat by the men, and she will not receive any further exemptions.

It is the sponsor’s exemption to use as they see fit, and I think that they are going to get far more bang for the buck from this then if they had invited some other second tier PGA player in Anika’s place.

[Craig James]

Originally posted by GonePostal
Women should not be allowed to play in the men's leauge. Why? Because it is the MENS league. We artificially separated the 2 genders because of physical differences and it should stay that way. Unless you want to make some co-ed league and run it in tandum/eliminate the other leauges (which IMO would be stupid).
Even if there are superior women just DOMINATING the women's league that is no arguement for them going to the men's league. What do the men that dominate do? Does Tiger Woods do? Women leaving women's leauges are traitors. They hurt women's leagues by leaving and lower the possibility of a higher level of competition in those leagues.

I disagree.

First of all, there is a WOMEN'S league, but to my knowledge, there is not a MEN'S league. It just so happens that the best players happen to be male. Regardless, the PGA or any other top tier sporting leagues should be open to the top talent period. Male or female.

[GonePostal]

Um... of course there is no mens league... not at all... Get your facts straight.

[Craig James]

Ok, Postal, to make my point abundantly clear to you:

A gender specific league would be one in which there is only ever ONE gender allowed to play in it. As an example, the LPGA specifically states in its rule book that in order to be eligible to play in their league, one must be a female and have also been born one.

The PGA has no such rule, which means that men and WOMEN both are eligible to play in it. Further more, this means that it is not a one gender specific league. For those that may not understand that, it means that it is not a MENS league. It just happens that the talent level that qualifies to play in it has almost always been male. Note that I said "almost always." That is because women have played in the PGA in the past.

[tryingtobebig]

If women were allowed to "seek more competition," that would completely undermine the women's league. So then the winner in the LPGA wouldn't really be the best women? Nope. Sorry, won't work. And also, like someone said earlier, then they should also let bottom barrel men seek less competition, and that would just make them both majority male leagues.

[Delphi]

LOL@Maki- I thought for a minute you were going to say that the girls' soccer team kicked yall's butts.

If Sorenstam does well at the Colonial do you think it will make it hard for her to go back to LPGA tournaments?

[galileo]

You are all missing the point here people. Jello Wrestling. Don't you see?

[McBain]

there should be a mens only jello wrestling league??

:scratch:

[MrWebb78]

the concern shouldnt be that they want to play in the men's league, the concern should be why they are out of the kitchen!!!!

[Saturday Fever]

Why'd she have two black eyes?


Cause I had to tell her dumb ass twice!

[Delphi]

And Vijay Singh caves...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/golfonline/news/2003/05/13/singh_sorenstam_ap/

[MrWebb78]

i was surpirsed that he apologized, they usually only make white men do that.

[Delphi]

You think he got leaned on to apologize? That was my guess.

[Coleman]

Webb,

Enough with the racist/sexist comments already.

[hemants]

1. The PGA is not a man's league so Annika should be allowed to play.

2. Annika is not trying to make a feminist statement, she's just bored because she has been owning the LPGA. Like most atheletes, she appreciates a good challenge.

3. The central issue is not whether she should play or whether men should be allowed in a women's league; it is whether she should be allowed to play without qualifying through the normal channels. In that regard I agree with Vijay in that she should have to qualify.

[NateDogg]

What hemants said.

[Praetorian]

i love this equality crap presented by woman.

once in PE class, the guys played soccer (and we play hard soccer with real tackles and no holding back, thats why the PE-teacher split us into guy/girl groups) while the girls did some girlie stuff. but soon one of the girls started to bitch about that she wasnt allowed to play with the guys and that was discrimination and ****. My PE-techer told her that it was for her own good that she didnt play soccer with us, but she kept on naggin, so he finally let her.

guess what happenes?

i tackle her, she hurts her knee and STARTS CRYING!!!!

and that is why women should not play with men when it comes to sports.

[hemants]

Yeah, there's lots of tackling in golf.

[Praetorian]

golf, curling and badminton is not a sport.

[Berserker]

Haven't read the whole thing. I think she should have to earn her pro card, atleast a portion. No ladies tee.
Its kind of funny, if its true she is board with the lpga, she is then saying men are better golfers, since she thinks she will find a challenge there.
The funniest equallity thing I heard of was a few years ago might have changed. To pass the physical for a fire department you had to cary a 150 dummy/sac down a ladder. They let the women go twice with 75lbs. Which makes her useless. I am sure there are women that can do this they should be allowed. Would they let a small man go twice?

[hemants]

"golf, curling and badminton is not a sport."

You've obviously never played badminton at a competetive level.

[Tryska]

Originally posted by ElPietro
What bothers me, is that the women's association is called the LPGA, the "L" standing for "Lady's".




silly rabbit..that L doesn't for "Lady". :rolleyes:


hee hee just kidding.

as for sports..i think if a woman is good enough to compete on a "men's" field, then go on and do it.

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by Berserker

Its kind of funny, if its true she is board with the lpga, she is then saying men are better golfers, since she thinks she will find a challenge there.

She is well aware of this. It is reason she is using for doing it. I for one am damn excited and will be glued to the TV and other sources for as long as she is in the tournament.

BTW, whoever said she has an excellent short game. She does not putt well (by her own admission if I recall), but she is very good with wedges. Problem is that she won't be using them all that much. From the men's tees she's going to be hitting much longer iron shots than the men. If she wants to compete at all, she's going to have to do things like driver, driver on par 5's to have a chance to be near the green.

Just for the record, "does not putt well" is a very relative term. She would kick my ass.

[Berserker]

I just meant that its insulting to women.

[aikigreg]

Originally posted by hemants
1. The PGA is not a man's league so Annika should be allowed to play.

2. Annika is not trying to make a feminist statement, she's just bored because she has been owning the LPGA. Like most atheletes, she appreciates a good challenge.

3. The central issue is not whether she should play or whether men should be allowed in a women's league; it is whether she should be allowed to play without qualifying through the normal channels. In that regard I agree with Vijay in that she should have to qualify.

1. Annika is playing in a sponsor exemption. If they didn't want a woman to play, they should totally disallow exemptions of any kind and make everyone qualify.

2. For many tourneys and opens, a LARGE majority of the male golfers have exemptions to these and don't have to qualify - just make the cut. The Colonial itself is an INVITATIONAL, which means everyone who plays has to be invited, not qualify.

3. Annika will be playing the same tees as the men, and they're having her play with the rookies who've never won anything.

4. I appreciate Annika's attitude. Comparatively, she's a better golfer than Tiger if you compare her stats on the LPGA tour. She has zero competition on the LPGA and is looking for a challenge. She's probably bit off a little more than she can chew here, but so do I in the gym every day.

5. She's a bodybuilder and has visible abs. :drool:

Y'all quit hatin!

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by Berserker
I just meant that its insulting to women.

Not really, it's a proven fact, that is about to be proven again.

[Gyno Rhino]

ELP has it correct.

Until the LPGA agrees to take male golfers, the PGA should be under no pressure to accept female ones.

[thetopdog]

This is not a sport with direct competiton, this is Golf. I'm sure she's played on a lot of the courses that the men have, why not just look at her score on those courses? If it's good enough to beat the rest of the men in the tourney, let her play, if not, tell her to go back to her own league and shut up. It's not that complicated, it's only golf

[aikigreg]

Originally posted by Gyno Rhino
ELP has it correct.

Until the LPGA agrees to take male golfers, the PGA should be under no pressure to accept female ones.

The Pga is under no pressure whatsoever. The pga has no rules that say Women can't play. That's why Suzey Whaley is playing in a PGA event this year also. the LPGA does have rules.

Let me give you another example. I'm allowed to go to college, just not on a NAACP scholarship :D

[Gyno Rhino]

Then let the PGA change their name to the MPGA, like ElP suggested.

Just watch the horrific backlash that would take place.

Ladies' gyms. Just fine. Men's gyms. Sexist pigs.

Tennis, at least, has it right.

[ElPietro]

Well I'm sure the reason the PGA tour doesn't have this rule, is because it is a very old association, where women's rights issues where never a factor in it's inception. The women wanted their own league, and they formed it for women. The PGA is the same thing, only back then, females and golf were not even a thought, so they never considered it necessary. I haven't followed any of the news on this, so I am only arguing in concepts. Will she be playing as a pro? Regardless of sponsors exemptions, do you not have to have your PGA tour card in order to be a professional golfer on the PGA tour? Otherwise, she is would just have amateur status in the eyes of the PGA. Everyone else in the field had to go to Q school at one point in their life, and often times they have to go year after year to requalify. Without her actually qualifying for the tour, I will view this only as a circus sideshow, and consider her an amateur PGA competitor, nothing more.

This is not gender equality due to her not being qualified. This is using the women's rights BS lines, to get an advantage over the rest of the field who put in the time to qualify.

[Manveet]

Originally posted by Centaurion
i love this equality crap presented by woman.

once in PE class, the guys played soccer (and we play hard soccer with real tackles and no holding back, thats why the PE-teacher split us into guy/girl groups) while the girls did some girlie stuff. but soon one of the girls started to bitch about that she wasnt allowed to play with the guys and that was discrimination and ****. My PE-techer told her that it was for her own good that she didnt play soccer with us, but she kept on naggin, so he finally let her.

guess what happenes?

i tackle her, she hurts her knee and STARTS CRYING!!!!

and that is why women should not play with men when it comes to sports.

:thumbup:

[IceRgrrl]

Originally posted by Centaurion


once in PE class, the guys played soccer (and we play hard soccer with real tackles and no holding back, thats why the PE-teacher split us into guy/girl groups) while the girls did some girlie stuff. but soon one of the girls started to bitch about that she wasnt allowed to play with the guys and that was discrimination and ****. My PE-techer told her that it was for her own good that she didnt play soccer with us, but she kept on naggin, so he finally let her.

guess what happenes?

i tackle her, she hurts her knee and STARTS CRYING!!!!

and that is why women should not play with men when it comes to sports.

So...because ONE individual couldn't compete with you, you extrapolate that to mean that no woman can compete with a man? Depends on the sport and the individuals involved... I'm willing to bet there's some great female soccer players out there who could make you look silly on the field...

[Paul Stagg]

I played soccer until I was 24. I'm quite certain Mia Hamm would make me look like someone with no feet trying to kick a ball.

So would the majority of the women professionals.

My ONLY advantage is that I might be able to run faster than some of them (certainly not all of them), and that I have a physical advantage with respect to physical play.

I'm pretty sure they'd have me juked and sitting on my ass long before i could ever get to them to knock them over.

I wouldn't want to play CHECKERS with Mia Hamm.

[Paul Stagg]

BTW - the only possible issue with the golf thing is that she didn't qualify, and someone explained that above one doesn't need to qualify to get in this tournament.

I see no problem. She'll be playing by the same rules. I hope she kicks Veejay's ass.

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
and someone explained that above one doesn't need to qualify to get in this tournament.

Ah, I must have missed this if it's true. If they can sponsor whoever they want, then I guess there's nothing wrong with it. Other than the motivational factors from the sponsor. This isn't because she's a great player in general, it's simply because she is female. But if she does well maybe it will open some eyes. In any case, the PGA tour will need to either ammend their rules, or ignore gender at qualifying school. As long as they all tee off from the same spot it won't matter too much.

[WillKuenzel]

I thought she didn't have to quality because of sponsorship but isn't there a cut at some point during the match where they eliminate those that haven't done well enough?

[KoSh]

Well my opinion is that if she wanted to play in the tournament, she should have qualified like EVERYONE else had to. She received an exemption because she's a woman, is that equal rights? Hell no, that's "Above and Beyond" rights.

And there is a difference between the sports. If you think for one second that a woman could compete in some of the major sports leagues with a man, you're out of your mind. Golf, sure...

Football, Basketball...no way.

I would like to see a woman football player get a carry, allow her to get 15 yards of steam, and have Ray Lewis, LaVar Arrington, Brian Urlacher, Roy Williams, John Lynch or any of the NFL Defensive players take a 3 yard head start and have them collide...

Money says that woman isn't getting up.

As for Basketball, there are some VERY good women players... I do not doubt that, but to think they could compete with men is crazy...

Which woman is going to guard Shaq? Or Kobe? Or McGrady? or Garnett, or Duncan, or Pierce, or etc...

Not a one of them.

But seeing how this is about the PGA, there is no direct contact in golf, I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed the chance to play in it, but fairly, and not with this crappy exemption bullsh!t. And I also believe male amateurs should be allowed in the LPGA if they chose to be a part of that.

[ElPietro]

The exemptions happen all the time. So that is not an issue. The sponsors can exempt whoever they want. They could give OJ, Jack Nicholson, or Susan Sarandon an exemption and it would be the same. It's more to boost ratings than anything else.

[NateDogg]

KoSh, all of that was already gone over. She is not the only person to ever get an exemption to play in a tournament. Also, it's not the MPGA, it's the PGA. Which leaves it as simply the best players in the world. As someone else said, they just happen to be male (so far). The LPGA is just that, a league for the best WOMEN in the world.

[Saturday Fever]

A pro male is superior to any pro female in the same sport. It's a simple fact. For a while a few years back they assembled a professional women's baseball team that toured and played minor league baseball teams. Last I heard they still had never won and were now playing junior college teams.

The Mia Hamm reference is a good one when you apply her playing against someone like me in Soccer. Put her in a men's game with world class MEN, and she'd be below average at best. Look at what Tennis tried to pull years ago for publicity. The guy finally got beat by a woman's player. Previously he had been spanking them ALL, nevermind he was in his 60s.

I've seen the world's best volleyball players compete (men and women) in a charity match when I was in high school and the women (regardless of how great they were as women players) could not keep pace with the faster more aggressive style the men used.

It is not a sexist comment. There are just things men are better at.


Oh, and now for the joke:

Where's the first place a lady goes after leaving a battered woman's home?

The kitchen if she knows what's good for her.

[aikigreg]

Originally posted by HomeYield
I thought she didn't have to quality because of sponsorship but isn't there a cut at some point during the match where they eliminate those that haven't done well enough?

EVERYONE is there by invitation. This is not a qualifying tournament. This is not the Open, this in an INVITATIONAL. She just happens to be invited by the sponsor who puts up all the money :D

And yes, she will be playing with the Rookies at the outset of the tourney, and if she doesn't make the cut she's outta there. Kinda like David Duval.

[body]

who did billi king jean have a tennis match with in regards to sexisms?
but then the bloke had not trianed in years.

I am waiting for the 1st female to try and compete with ronnie coleman on stage.lol

though i would give her a trianing tip of coming on the stage at peak pregnancy condition.

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by Saturday Fever
A pro male is superior to any pro female in the same sport. It's a simple fact.

Put her in a men's game with world class MEN, and she'd be below average at best.

Well, below average is still better than many. The worst professional still gets paid for what he/she does. What I mean is that if Anika finishes better than dead last, the above statement is proven to not necessarily be true. A better way to put it would be to say that the best male athlete will always be better than the best female athlete.

[ace dogg]

I think she should be able to get beat by men if she desires. I also think a male golfer that can't compete in the PGA but can in the LPGA should be able to do that too. It's the highest level of competition he can compete with.

And I love the Augusta owners...I really hope they don't back down. I/club owner should have every right to exclude women at his private club if he wishes. Women tend to be annoying anyhow.

[Craig James]

Originally posted by ace dogg
I also think a male golfer that can't compete in the PGA but can in the LPGA should be able to do that too. It's the highest level of competition he can compete with.

I disagree.

If the man can't hack it on the PGA tour, then he can try to make it on the Nationwide tour, which is like the PGA minor leagues. This is the next step down in competition, not the LPGA.

The LPGA is for women only - for what ever reason, some people like to watch women play golf. It is competitive because of the limitation that it is for women only. If men were allowed to play, it would ruin it.

I for one would like to see more women step up to the plate and try to make it on the Nationwide tour and then qualify for the PGA.

I just don't understand some of y'all's hang ups on letting women compete with men in sports. Is it not conceivable that a genetic female freak could come along who could do well in any sport of her choosing? I said it before and I will say it again: The top tier in any sport should be open to the best talent available, whether it is male or female.

[Gyno Rhino]

How bout we get rid of all the men's only leagues AND women's only leagues and create a skill-based tier system of leagues that are all co-ed. Watch what happens.

[Praetorian]

Originally posted by IceRgrrl
I'm willing to bet there's some great female soccer players out there who could make you look silly on the field...


sure there are. i bet there are male hockey players that could asswipe you too. use your head icerr. im not talking about some kid vs a pro player, but two seemingly equal persons. mia hamm would get asswiped in premier leauge, hell even in seria A, where they play sissy football.

[gino]

Women should be able to compete in men's leagues if the opposite is also allowed - men in woman's leagues. OR, if there is no woman's equivalent of a sport available for women to play. That is the bottom line, no matter how you slice it.

[ace dogg]

Originally posted by Craig James


I disagree.

If the man can't hack it on the PGA tour, then he can try to make it on the Nationwide tour, which is like the PGA minor leagues. This is the next step down in competition, not the LPGA.

Because he wouldn't get the same amount of publicity and recognition for it. That's why Annika is doing it anyway, she really isn't absolutely dominating womens golf. She had a great year, and that was about it. She still has a very competent field to compete with. she just wants more publicity. If she can get on the tour, then she can play. If a man can get on the womens tour, then he can play. Equal rights.

Really though, she should just stick to being the number one female golfer in the world. It's better to be known as that rather than a female who got on the mens tour and wasn't good enough. Cuz, IMO, that's what will happen. she'll end up back on the womens tour. a fookin baseball player schooled her...and he doesn't even play professionally, lol.

[RoidRage]

No. Hence the LPGA.

[Craig James]

Originally posted by ace dogg


Because he wouldn't get the same amount of publicity and recognition for it. That's why Annika is doing it anyway,

She is doing it for the pub? I have never heard her say that. Have you? Everything that I have heard her say in relation to her entering a PGA event was that she wanted more of a challenge then the LPGA was currently offering her. I applaud her for that.



she really isn't absolutely dominating womens golf. She had a great year, and that was about it.

Are we still talking about the same Annika Sorenstam? Are we still talking about the same player that many sports columnists claim has dominated women's golf more so then Tiger Woods has the PGA? Are we still talking about the same player who has posted a 59 in one of her rounds? The same player who has set over 30 LPGA records?

It sounds to me like she has not only been dominating women's golf, she has been destroying it.



She still has a very competent field to compete with. she just wants more publicity. If she can get on the tour, then she can play. If a man can get on the womens tour, then he can play. Equal rights.

Ahh, but a man cannot get on the women's tour, because it is for women. You guys need to get off of the equal rights issue.

There are no equal rights in sports.

This is not an equal rights issue. The only reason why there are women's sports franchises is because they cannot compete with men, and there are people willing to pay money to watch them.

[RoidRage]

The only reason why there are women's sports franchises is because they cannot compete with men

All that quoting you did and you had to go and contridict yourself

[Craig James]

Let me make sure you understand what I said:

The vast majority of female professional athletes simply cannot challenge male professional athletes. I think it should be open for the possibility that a genetic freak of a female who can compete at the males' level should have that opportunity.

Is Annika a genetic freak who can challenge the men? Well, I think she should have the opportunity, whether earned through qualifying or garnered from a Sponsor's Exemption. Either way, she gets the challenge that she so greatly desires, it makes for good golf entertainment, and we all find out if a female can compete.

As much as I would like to see her do well, my personal feeling is that she won't make the cut to play on the weekend.

[gino]

I wanna see women compete in mens' bodybuilding

[ace dogg]

Maybe there should be equal gender rights? Sometimes things need to be changed...shut up Martha Burk, there's just are no equal rights at Augusta. Deal with it. That's stupid. goes both ways. I don't Augusta needs to change anything, but Martha should keep fighting if she believes in it. although i'd like to smack her up.

I'm not really interested in golf as far as watching it goes, but it would be interesting to see how Annika does. tho it would be funny if she came in last and didn't make the cut.

[IceRgrrl]

I'm not a golf fan, but from what I've read in the newspapers and seen on Sportscenter, it seems like Annika played pretty well yesterday :)

[Wikked1]

Saw her workout on the news the other day .....weighted chins.....she bulked up and wants to play against the big boys why not?? Do you think she could simply be tired of winning? DAMN that would SUCK.....let's all have a try at winning all the time and see how many of us get tired of it....I'd like to start by winning POWERBALL.......yes the multistate multimillion dollar lottery.......DOUBT I will be bored.......and well just my opinion I think she wants to "MOVE up in Weight class".....

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by IceRgrrl
I'm not a golf fan, but from what I've read in the newspapers and seen on Sportscenter, it seems like Annika played pretty well yesterday :)

I think 100% of the men that had the same score as her at the end of the day were extremely disappointed. It's an easy course, and a very large number of golfers were well under par.

She will need to play much better I think, in order to make the cut for this one.

But then again, it's only one tournament. The best golfers in the world miss the cut, so it's hard to speak to someone's level of play from only one single tournament.

Maybe if she feels she can compete, she can go to q-school and get her card. Then she can play as many tournaments as she wants, and probably get a better gauge on how things stand.

I guess she'll know in the end, if she had a great round for her, and still came up well short, or if she felt she could have done much better.

[IceRgrrl]

The fact that she's not at the bottom of the pack and that she played as well or better than a significant number of them is worth noting. I don't think anyone expected her to win or anything, but she's done a great job of playing well under pressure with many people predicting she'd crash and burn.

I hate golf, but I'm cheering for her.

[ace dogg]

haha she didn't make the cut.

[NateDogg]

Neither did MANY other golfers. All of them male :eek: . BTW, Sergio Garcia didn't make the cut either.

[Gyno Rhino]

She got owned.

But the important question here is: Who cares?

[IceRgrrl]

I've been doing a lot of thinking/reflecting about this over the past few days, and my opinion is that the situation is sort of a Rorschach blot test...what you see in it is a projection of what you consciously or subconsciously feel about gender and sports and a whole lot of other things.

Regardless of that, this is just the beginning. Michele Wie is going to play in the minor league tours next year. She has the distance that Annika lacks, she's 6' tall, and is only 13 years old, so she's not hit her potential yet. Eventually I think golf will be a game of skill and not gender, and the best will play at the best level, with other tiered levels according to ability and not gender.

Anyways, I enjoyed watching Annika take on the challenge, conduct herself with class, and it raised a lot of good discussions, not just about sports, but about male/female relationships in general. It certainly was eye-opening to me, on a lot of levels, with a lot of people, if a bit depressing to see that we still have to deal with the automatic assumption of male = superior, female = inferior, which may have some merit in a sport, but certainly not when it comes to careers, leadership, decision-making, or many other arenas.

Had a very good talk with my dad, who was a four sport all-star in high school, played college football, and has coached several sports all his life in addition to being a voracious fan. He had a lot of perspective on how time changes a lot of things and reflected that a lot of the same comments being made about women playing with men were similar to those made about blacks playing with whites back in the day, and reminded me that in the late 1960's, women were not allowed to run in the Boston Marathon (and in fact the conventional wisdom was that women were not capable of running that far and if they did, it would be "damaging to their reproductive organs" or some other holdover from ancient times). Kathleen Switzer registered as K. Switzer and ran the marathon, having to fight off a race official who tried to pull her off the course. Today the top women marathoners finish about 10 min. behind the top men. In endurance racing (100+ mile runs) a woman is often the first finisher.

Anyways, his observation was the progress moves on, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, but though it may sometimes mean three steps forward and one step back, progress does not stop, nor does it reverse. Holders of old attitudes don't change their minds, but they do eventually die off.

[big]

"Eventually I think golf will be a game of skill and not gender..."
I agree, I don't understand why golf isn't already. I like playing golf but I wouldn't watch it on tv. But I enjoyed watching her play, at least the first day. Heard she played like poo the second day, didn't watch it myself.

[MrWebb78]

i especially like her fake crying after she was cut...im sure her agent put her up to it.

tears of joy are the only acceptable tears in any sports.

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by MrWebb78
i especially like her fake crying after she was cut...im sure her agent put her up to it.

tears of joy are the only acceptable tears in any sports.

Who says they were not tears of joy for doing what she did? She was the first female in 58 years on the PGA Tour and by most accounts she did not make an a$$ out of herself.

Or they could have been tears of relief that it was over?

[IceRgrrl]

Or just emotional backlash from the pressure and expectation of both those who wanted her to fail and those who wanted her to do well.

If you've never been in the position of doing something with lots of people watching and hoping you'll fail, then you have no idea how much energy goes into keeping up that mental/emotional toughness that makes you able to perform and screen out anything that is not related to your efforts. Once it's all over and you decompress, it's usually a pretty heavy backlash...

[ElPietro]

Congrats to her for holding up under the pressure, and representing herself well. I'm not sure what expectations she set for herself, but I think she did show that it is reasonable to think that she can be competitive at that level.

In the end, it's a pro sport, and the proof is in results. If she wants to start competing on predominantly male dominated tours, good for her if she wants more challenge. Maybe she will get her card and play on the tour. Who knows. It stands to reason that as more women start golfing, there will be more women capable of playing at that level. Currently it seems like the only real barrier is length off the tee. Many male golfers lack distance as well, and many females can hit it further than most males. So I'd expect there to be more of a balance in the near future.

I guess you also have to factor in that there hasn't been much support for women in sport in the past. Girls could play some highschool sports, and some college sports, but there were no pro leagues to aspire to. But that is changing, so I'd expect them to more fully dedicate themselves to a sport, and specialize in it, which would raise the bar for their level of competitiveness.

I guess time will tell, but it seems inevitable.

[chris mason]

I haven't read this thread, it is way too long, but I wish to comment. To me, golf is one of the sports where women should be allowed to compete with men. You hardly have to be a brute to swing a golf club. The average male superiority in strength doesn't really come into play. Golf is more of a skill game. I think pool is another sport in which women can compete equally.

Now, I don't really see a woman competing with a man (assume both have an inclination for the sport and have trained properly) in sports like football, basketball, or sumo wrestling. A good male will always be superior in these sports (due to the strength potential differences in the genders).

[RoidRage]

. . .

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by chris mason
I haven't read this thread, it is way too long, but I wish to comment. To me, golf is one of the sports where women should be allowed to compete with men. You hardly have to be a brute to swing a golf club. The average male superiority in strength doesn't really come into play. Golf is more of a skill game. I think pool is another sport in which women can compete equally.


Well, if this tournament was any indication, strength does make a difference in golf. Annika is THE BEST female golfer in the world and maybe EVER, and she admittedly was not going to win this tournament even if she played her best golf ever. She admitted this knowing that the best male golfer probably EVER was not even in the field.

Strength comes into golf in more situations than just driving, you need strength to get the ball out of the rough with any authority, and even more importantly, you need strength to get the ball to spin the way you need it to on the fast PGA greens.

Pool I would definitely agree on. Golf, not so much.

[heathj]

I agree with Chris. Golf is probably one of the ONLY sports where women would be able to compete with men, because she is on her own out there. It's not like she's fighting other men during her backswing. Only difference is she just has harder opponents and is probably playing on harder courses? Anyway, that is just one reason why golf is a pussy sport :p

[NateDogg]

*Hits heathj with a 6 iron*

:D

[big]

btw I think she was pretty happy after all. Have you ever seen her play on the womens tour? She doesn't ever smile, she looked pretty happy now. :)

[Praetorian]

hahah icerr. i told you. chicks ALWAYS cry.

[Jane]

:bang:


A blot test is the perfect analogy.

[IceRgrrl]

Originally posted by Centaurion
hahah icerr. i told you. chicks ALWAYS cry.

What do you mean "I told you?" :confused:

And ALWAYS statements are dangerous in logic terms...all I have to do is find one chick who doesn't cry and your statement is then completely invalid. :D

Incidentally, I've seen more than one man with tears in his eyes after a big win or a big loss or a big event...emotion is part of sports.

[Y2A]

Golf, at the pro level, has alot to do with your physical body as well as skill. Any a*shole can play a pickup game of football or basketball too, but only those with talent and skill will make it to the pros. Obviously, golf doesnt require as much physical prowess as the other two sports, but a weak fat guy with "skill" wouldnt make it on the tour either. Or a woman, in this case ;) :hide:

[Praetorian]

Originally posted by IceRgrrl


What do you mean "I told you?" :confused:

i implied that in my earlier thread.

[ElPietro]

Yeah Duffy Waldorf, and John Daly have the herculean physiques required for golf. I would wager that Annika could b!tchslap Davis Love, he is a toothpick, yet he consistently is a long hitter. Golf is about club head speed, and technique. Hitting the ball far is a distant second to hitting the ball accurately. Sure long hitters have some advantage on par 5s, but sometimes being a long hitter can be more of a detriment than a benefit, as you are enticed into making foolish shots, or going for eagle when a layup would be smarter to make birdie. Golf is a finess game, and given the variety of physiques on tour, and how skewed the driving averages are based on these physiques, I'd say strength is a much overrated factor.

Sure you must have "some" strength, but I don't see how a woman who maybe strength trains regularly, and has a very technically sound swing, can't keep up with the average tour player. She just has to work harder for it.

[chris mason]

If I recall correctly, Annika was driving as far or farther than her male partners during the tournament. That should settle the strength issue.

Funny, I was going to mention Daly as well. His physique is not exactly herculean, yet there was a time when he was a force on the tour.

[NateDogg]

She is the best women golfer in the world and maybe ever. Now, if women are comparable to men in this sport, then why did she not win the tournament, or even make the cut?

If you want to say she just had a bad day, sure I will buy that. However, I also submit that if she played the rest of the year on the PGA tour she may make a few cuts, but she would not win anything.

Also, if strength isn't an issue, then why does the best male golfer on tour continue to weight train for golf? Why are the older golfers now following his lead and winning more tournaments?

[ElPietro]

They probably work out to get in better shape, and stay healthy. None of us are pro golfers yet we train right? Do you train for a pro sport? If you aren't a pro should you even train then? It's not like these guys do 100% of their activity simply for the game of golf. They shouldn't play with their kids either then, since it won't help their short game.

Bottom line is, a fat flabby piece of crap can be a great golfer, with a long drive, a strong muscular guy can be a great golfer with a long drive, a skinny little toothpick can be a great golfer with a long drive. There are still some physical demands, so sure working out is of benefit, but being some mammoth guy will not really do much for your game. You are not "muscling" the ball, it's all a function of club head speed, and technique. 99.9% of these guys aren't swinging the club as fast as they could, they are going at a tempo that they can consistently use to hit a technically good shot. If they wan't to hit further, they would swing faster, which would result in a further shot, but less of an accurate shot in general.

Davis Love III is all bone and sinew and drives the ball further than 90% of the guys on tour. Tiger Woods used to be a skinny little kid, and was one of the biggest drivers on tour ever. He has beefed up and worked out a lot, you do not see an increase in his average driving distance though. He tends to drive a lot with irons, but that is just him tailoring his game to the course.

So so far, I see basically zero evidence that shows that having a great physique really makes a significant benefit, over having an average physique, or even a sub par physique. These guys are playing rounds of golf all the time, whatever shape or form they come in, they have already tailored their game to their bodytype, and it's optimized to play with that bodytype. The rest is just minute details, that won't have a significant impact.

[ElPietro]

Oh, and I don't know how many players are on the PGA tour in a given year, but I'd say close to 90% don't win a tournament in a year. And there are tons of golfers who go their whole career without winning a tournament. The whole point is it's a pro league, it's their job to golf, they get paid to make cuts, and compete. They just happen to get paid more to win, but in the end as long as they are keeping their card, and making enough money to get buy, that's all it is to them. So sure if you are going to compare annika to the top 50 or 100 other golfers in the world, she may come up short, but they aren't the entire representation of the PGA tour.

[NateDogg]

You are missing my point. Chris said that golf is a sport where women should be able to compete with men. Well the best women golfer just did. She did not even really come close to making the cut. Tiger has made something like 100 cuts consecutively (I just read that only 80 of those tournaments actually had "cuts", but still). Now if the best women golfer gets beat (and does not even make the cut) by a whole slew of male golfers that are not the best, then how could anyone argue that women, especially women with less talent than Annika can compete with men?

My main point being:

Tiger = best male golfer
Annika = best female golfer

Tiger > Annika

By a large margin, IMO.

Now, I happen to agree with Chris, to a point. I would love to see Annika, or Michelle Wei out there day in and day out, but to just mix the tours together would lead to many less women playing golf because at least for quite some time, very few would make any money.

[ElPietro]

I don't think you understand the point. There was never an issue comparing annika to tiger woods. Her competing on the PGA tour has relatively little to do with her skill in comparison to tigers. I guess 90% of the guys on tour should stop playing golf because they can't touch tiger either? That reasoning isn't applicable here. If you have to be close in skill to the best player in the world, then I'm afraid very few players measure up, regardless of their gender, and that would apply for pretty much any sport in the world.

[NateDogg]

I do see where you are coming from. And of course we only have one tournament to go on, but Annika couldn't make the cut. I'm saying if Annika couldn't make the cut, then what women golfer could? Yeah, there are male golfers that didn't make the cut as well, but they also play on the Nationwide Tour, Best Buy Tour, Hooters Tour, etc. Where I suppose women could play too if the sport was not generally separated by gender. I just do not see women competing on the PGA Tour anytime soon. Which is what I thought we were referring too.

[ElPietro]

Well, the whole point is that this sport is only now emerging for women. If annika is a sign for things to come, then more women probably would take this game much more seriously, and train for it as a career. With more women getting involved in the sport at an early age, you would see a significant rise in the skill level, and then the lines of competition between genders would blur much more.

How many dads take their daughters out for golf lessons when they are 6 years old? I bet if women's golf was higher profile, or they started doing better against tougher competition, it would result in a shift in thinking paradigms regarding women in pro sports. This would then of course spin off with greater support and infrastructure for womens sports, which would then result in higher caliber athletes overall.

[IceRgrrl]

That's pretty much what Richard Williams did with Venus and Serena...he saw that there was money to be made in women's tennis and got his daughters into it at a young age. Everyone laughed at him when he said he was going to make them into champions, but somehow it worked...

[NateDogg]

Good point El P.

[Maki Riddington]

Thoughts?

[Built]

This is an interesting question, and I don't have an answer to it.

When I was in high school, my grade 11 phys ed teacher had this agenda he was always out to prove - we had a coed phys ed class, and he'd always play the girls against the boys for Rugby. He was out to teach the girls their place.

Not only were the girls not socialized to play rough and to play as a team (I understand this is changing now, we're talking about 25 years ago), but by grade 11, most of us girls were physically a lot smaller than most of the guys. You can say "no contact" all you like, but you KNOW you're going to get mowed down when a 6'2", 200 lb guy is running after you because you have the ball.

All it did was to instil a hatred of sports in most of the girls, which, along with "girls suck" was clearly this teacher's motive. (I'll add that he was a skinny little guy. Gee, I WONDER what his motivation was :rolleyes: )

I think I might have learned to enjoy the game if I had been taught to play and matched with girls who were my size.

And still, I'm not sure how I'd have felt if I was a really strong player and wanted to play with a team that could challenge me, but was forbidden because of my gender.

I remain on the fence. But it's a thought provoking question.

[BilltheButcher]

If a girl is good enough then why not. Problem is Anika, Michelle Wie are not good enough. I am not positive but I don't think either have made the cut on courses specifical chosen and geared toward their games. In golf if a female is serious about playing then get serious and try and get your pro card. Don't take these exemptions which are just publicity stunts to draw in bigger crowds.

[spencerjrus]

No she shouldnt.

[bill]

Whats the lady that is #1 in pool? Black hair Asain, beautiful. She should always play on tv against any men, much better to watch.

[Stephen Riddington]

I think you mean Jeanette Lee.

http://www.jeanettelee.com/main.html

[Alex.V]

Whats the lady that is #1 in pool? Black hair Asain, beautiful. She should always play on tv against any men, much better to watch.

We're talking about sports.



Pool is not a sport.



While we're on the subject, neither is poker. What the **** is that **** doing on ESPN?

[Miker]

skill, ability and talent are not relative.. either you have them or you do not. If Annika can make the cut then she should be allowed to play. If a woman is a good enough hockey player to beat out males at her position.. then she should be allowed to play. I don't have a problem with same sex competition.. but nowadays.. many many women have developed physically enough to compete with men.

Why men are so concerned about this issue is beyond me.. Seems to stem from some sort of irrational fear that if they lose to a woman.. they lose more than the competition. Women have been competing on the same level stage in drag racing and racing in general for years. Infact there is a reasonable chance a woman will win the Indy 500 this year... would this detract from the sport...??? i don't think so..

get over the gender bias.. who cares if they compete or not.. if they are good enough.. there is no reason to not let them

[David]

While we're on the subject, neither is poker. What the **** is that **** doing on ESPN?


Exactly my thoughts, Belial. :thumbup:

Poker seems like the new “in” thing. Celebrities on TV having tournaments as well as your average joe. It’s like everyone thinks that they can be the next world poker champion. Seems like everyone is doing it, even little old grannies. Personally, I never got into it that much. I won way more money playing black jack and roulette. :nod:

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think that women should compete with men in certain “sports” or competitions but not others. I see no problem with both genders competing in golf or ping pong or chess. :)

But when it comes to football or hockey, both genders should play with their own.

Come to think of it - women should only compete with men in competitions - not sports.

[jack_of_all]

should women be allowed to compete with men?

yes

can women actually be just as good?

no


sorry, but its biological fact, the fastest women in the world couldnt make finals in the mens olympics sprinting even on a bad year. and as i recall, anika didnt do so hot either. once again though, im not saying they shouldnt be able to compete, but that they CANT compete in all sports because they are just not good enough biologically. also, if anika can compete with the men, let the men compete with the women or just merge it, it isnt fair to give one person two shots and no one else

[SW]

In no contact sports, where strength and stamina doesn't come into play, they should definitely have a coed league.

[MixmasterNash]

They're already in combat, so what's the big deal about getting women into some sports?

Let them compete if they want, and most will probably lose. Who cares? For the most part, they'll get filtered out before they ever make a collegiate or pro team.

Womens' sports can be very enjoyable to watch, like soccer, tennis, martial arts, etc. They can also seem like a bunch of slow midgets with limited coordination (ahem, women's bball -- no offense).

[IceRgrrl]

Funny reading this through again...more than a few watershed moments in my thinking and perceptions of people at the time that this was being discussed among family, friends, acquaintances.

I think a lot of the debate can be separated into elite male athletes vs. elite female athletes--in which case, there is no question that the physical advantage lies on the male side--and just plain folks playing sports. For that population, it varies as widely as individuals, their athletic ability, and the game being played. Just because Freddie Ado is a better soccer player than Mia Hamm does not mean that any random guy who plays soccer in the local rec leagues is better than any random woman...which is a logical error that seems to be disturbingly pervasive. The whole pro sports thing--money, egos, media--isn't a good influence on recreational sports. Thank goodness there's opportunities for anyone who wants to to play something.

That being said, the probabilities of the weakest player on your team being male or female are pretty equal. Most of us will never be on an elite competitive team, but it's a ton of fun to play coed sports, work hard, have fun, and make friends. Me and my basketball/hockey/softball teammates think so anyways :)