PDA

View Full Version : Cheat Days/Refeed = no workie for me



Fenbay
05-19-2003, 01:29 PM
Welp, we had company from out of town this weekend and decided to have a little get together bar b q with burgers etc. So starting Friday night with dinner at outback I started a couple of cheat days.

And the results were! Two weeks worth of hypocal and boarderline keto <very low carbs> cutting GONE. I managed to gain 8 pounds from Thursday morning's weigh-in to this morning.

That even includes a depletion style workout on Saturday morning which entailed deads, leg press, 3 or so back exercises, some mild shoulder work, and 30 minutes cardio on the cycle at close to 200 watt output.

Needless to say I'm a bit vexxed at such a fast gain from 2 days worth of cheating. And I didn't even go all out. I think the beer was the worse. Anyways it is back to the drawing board for me. I think I'm going to get nazi strict and not even allow myself any refeeds or cheat days as apparently my body is about the most efficient fat storer this side of this mississippi!

bryancore
05-19-2003, 01:31 PM
Don't worry. Its mostly water weight from all the extra sodium you took in. Don't worry, it happens to everyone.

SoulOfKoRea
05-19-2003, 01:39 PM
refeeds are healthy.

GhettoSmurf
05-19-2003, 02:00 PM
believe me bro, in the long run, odds are it helped you more then hurt you.

ChuckieT
05-19-2003, 03:40 PM
What did you eat during your "cheat days"/"refeeds?" More specifically, give me a calorie and macro breakdown for those days.

Also what is your current bodyfat percentage?

The food content and duration of your refeeds as well as your current body fat level will play an enormous role in how effective your refeeds will be.

In addition to all this, I seriously doubt you ate enough during those two days to gain back 8 "real" pounds. One or two days of cheating, while they can be psychologically devastating the following days, should not result in any significant fat gain...not unless you went absolutely insane.

Fenbay
05-19-2003, 03:47 PM
No clue on the macro break-down. Lots and lots of carbs though. Beer, friend baked cookies etc. I think my protein was decent though. I'd guess in the 3500-4000 calorie range for both days.

I'm about 25% BF down from the 30's. I'm 6'1 280, started at about 302. Chest is 52", biceps and calves are 18.5", waist is 44.

How does all that play into affecting refeeds/cheat days?

ChuckieT
05-19-2003, 04:01 PM
Typically at high levels of bodyfat especially at 25% (for men, which I'm assuming you are) refeeds are completely unnecessary. It's only when one diets down to a lower bodyfat percentage, at least below 15% will refeeds become necessary. Although the actual number is kinda arbitrary since it's more dependent on what your bodyfat setpoint is. Meaning what your body feels most comfortable at. But in general most people should at least start refeeds when they're at least below 20%, but ideally below 15%.

The reason for this is that at higher bodyfat levels your leptin levels are still relatively high which means you should have easier time losing bodyfat. It's only when you get really lean that bodyfat becomes harder and harder to drop due to lowered leptin levels. At this point in time I dont' think refeeds are necessary for you at all. You're at a high bodyfat percentage and straight calorie restriction and cardio will still be highly effective. Wait till you're lower before actually doing refeeds. Now if you want to cheat here and there go for it, but I don't think it's really necessary for you at this point in time.

Fenbay
05-19-2003, 04:08 PM
Makes sense. I am still losing very well imo. Down 8 llbs in 2 weeks and gaining on my lifts. I was just VERY disappointed to see the scale where it was after only 2 cheat days. Basically negated 2 weeks of hard work it seemed.

I think I'm going to make some setpoints weight wise before I allow for another cheat day. The kewl thing is I know that the weight loss thus far has been very clean, meaning I've made noticeable lean body gains while shedding the fat so far.

I can actually see veins in the top of my forearms where I never had them even in my leaner days playing ball etc. so I know things are working. I guess there will be setbacks in this quest regardless. The important thing is what I take away from them!

ChuckieT
05-19-2003, 04:11 PM
Yeah, I would save refeed days for when you've gotten much leaner.

By the way, even though it seems like 2 days of cheating got rid of 2 weeks worth of work, this is, in general, pretty much impossible. Consider how much you'd have to overeat in 2 days to override 2 weeks worth of a hypocaloric eating... The scale can be very deceptive in these cases. You're better off relying on the mirror or calipers a few days after a refeed to properly gauge your progress.

Ironman8
05-19-2003, 05:23 PM
Sounds like the CKD went well for you Fenbay. Congrats!

And don't worry about the extra weight you gained on the cheat, I'm pretty sure it's mostly water.

Fenbay
05-19-2003, 07:42 PM
Well now!

Since I posted my lamentable weight gain. I had to post my happy story.

Personal best 385 on the flat bench tonight!

Hmm correlation with all those carbs floating around? :D

bradley
05-20-2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by ChuckieT
Typically at high levels of bodyfat especially at 25% (for men, which I'm assuming you are) refeeds are completely unnecessary. It's only when one diets down to a lower bodyfat percentage, at least below 15% will refeeds become necessary. Although the actual number is kinda arbitrary since it's more dependent on what your bodyfat setpoint is. Meaning what your body feels most comfortable at. But in general most people should at least start refeeds when they're at least below 20%, but ideally below 15%.

The reason for this is that at higher bodyfat levels your leptin levels are still relatively high which means you should have easier time losing bodyfat. It's only when you get really lean that bodyfat becomes harder and harder to drop due to lowered leptin levels. At this point in time I dont' think refeeds are necessary for you at all. You're at a high bodyfat percentage and straight calorie restriction and cardio will still be highly effective. Wait till you're lower before actually doing refeeds. Now if you want to cheat here and there go for it, but I don't think it's really necessary for you at this point in time.

Although I agree with your above statement, I do believe that a refeed once a week or so would be beneficial to help refill lost muscle glycogen since he is following a low carb diet.

TiGeR AK
05-20-2003, 02:26 AM
i ALWAYS gain around 5-8 lbs after 24-28 hrs of carbing up on the weekends on CKD. it's all water weight as your body sucks up every drop of water it can from increased sodium intake and wutever.

compare your weight right before your carb up/refeed ... the same day every week.

that's how you should compare your weight loss, not after a refeed.

Fenbay
05-20-2003, 06:52 AM
This thread feels like I should be writing in a journal. But some folks may glean some useful information from it I think.

Just quick history. I've been charting my weight daily for almost 2 months now so I weigh each morning, first thing.

The 8 llb gain basically disappeared in one day. I was down 6.5 llbs this morning from yesterday morning. Amazing fluctuations and admittedly I was VERY hypo caloric yesterday and had an intense chest/bi workout. This leads me to believe you guys are right in that a lot of it was water weight. What will be really interesting is if I continue to lose fast after those major cheat days ..IE leptin levels remain up etc.

Ironman8
05-20-2003, 07:07 AM
Heh, sounds good. Go ahead and start the journal ;)

ChuckieT
05-20-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by bradley


Although I agree with your above statement, I do believe that a refeed once a week or so would be beneficial to help refill lost muscle glycogen since he is following a low carb diet.

If your workouts are suffering Fenbay then bradley is right, a weekly carb-up will help. Otherwise, in my opinion, if his workouts are not suffering, I would keep going hypocaloric until fat loss stalls.

-Glad you lost the water weight Fenbay, while a refeed/cheat day can be helpful psychologically, the days after overfeeding can be psychologically devastating. :D

Ironman8
05-20-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by ChuckieT
the days after overfeeding can be psychologically devastating. :D

That's true, if you don't know how to control your refeed and go all out :D

ChuckieT
05-20-2003, 08:26 PM
Actually I meant the bloated water retention look the days after refeeding can really mess with your mind, especially if you were like Fenbay and thought you ruined two weeks worth of dieting with 2 days worth of cheating.

GhettoSmurf
05-21-2003, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by ChuckieT
Actually I meant the bloated water retention look the days after refeeding can really mess with your mind, especially if you were like Fenbay and thought you ruined two weeks worth of dieting with 2 days worth of cheating.

i agree. that's why i try to be so stric with my bulking. if i cheat (unplanned) i feel really guilty, and cant stand that feeling. i also feel like i gained 20 pounds the day after lol. but so far its been a long time since that has happend *whew*

Ironman8
05-21-2003, 07:09 AM
Ya, I hate unplanned cheats. But, I just think about my metabolism :)