$20 a week to spend...

[GhettoSmurf]

well i have a job and stuff, and i usually spend $20 a week from my paycheck on gas, keep $20 for myself, and then put the rest in the bank.

i was wondering if any of you guys thought there would be a supplement worth spending the money on? it doesnt have to be under $20, (i can always save up fora couple weeks) ;)

currently I'm bulking, have a good diet, and am supplementing with whey, dextrose, fish oils, and a multivitamin.

do any of you guys have any suggestions of a good supplement to save up for? or should i just save the money for somthing else? I also live at home w/ my parents, and they supply the REAL food for me :)

[MrWebb78]

i think you should spend that money elsewhere, you have all the supps you need. if its really burning a hole in your pocket you can just send it to me!

[Berserker]

Beer
I agree other then whey save your money.

[kook]

ghetto..depends on if you go that high metabolism or not, if you do, your fine
if not....r-ala

[GhettoSmurf]

Originally posted by kook
ghetto..depends on if you go that high metabolism or not, if you do, your fine
if not....r-ala

i think i have more of a medium metabolism, also im 16 y/o so nothing too extreme ;)

[Ironman8]

Originally posted by Berserker
Beer

Not very good advice to give to a 16 year old ;)

[NO2]

heres tips for bulking

eat more then u eat now
eat health foods
drink protien.. its suggested you take 1g of protien per body wieght ex if u weight 160 then take 160 to 190 grams a day of protien
go to the gym
if your bulking i hope you got a gym membership or your gonna get fat

post your diet so we can see what you eat in a day

i hope that helped a bit

[NO2]

a good protien i suggest is propeptide, its easily one of the best protien on the market, thats what i take its about $60 cdn and it will last about 2 weeks if u take it easy

it lasts me about 10 to 13 days

heres a few to check out

nitro tech
dorian yates propeptide or pro m.r

there are many cheaper protiens but the truth is if you want quality your gonna have to pay a bit more
and the results r worth it

[bradley]

Originally posted by NO2
there are many cheaper protiens but the truth is if you want quality your gonna have to pay a bit more
and the results r worth it

I have tried the more expensive brands of protein and haven't really noticed any difference as far as gains were concerned. I would stick to the less expensive proteins unless you just have extra money laying around. Just my .02

[bradley]

Ghettosmurf-

Sounds like you have what you need and if you are making gains then stick with what is working. You could always give creatine a try, but I think you are doing fine without it:)

[GhettoSmurf]

Originally posted by bradley
Ghettosmurf-

Sounds like you have what you need and if you are making gains then stick with what is working. You could always give creatine a try, but I think you are doing fine without it:)

thanks bradley. yeah, i think ill just keep saving it, and then maybe in a few months if i do have a halt with the gains, i'll think about some creatine.

[BrianLS1]

I also suggest creatine..I'm currently taking Trac(just started last week) but have been hearing good things about it from people at the gym and also about it not putting the water weight on you like the others do(but say they don't)..it runs around 40-50 bucks per bottle which is like 25 servings and you take one daily preworkout

[Manveet]

You don't need anything else, *maybe* some ALA. Other than that, save your money.

[GhettoSmurf]

what exactly is ALA? is it like alpha lipoic(sp?) acid? what does that exactly do, and is there an age limit to buying it? (like over 18) ive been hearing quite a bit about it.

[Manveet]

http://musclemonthly.com/articles/001215/001215-haycock-howz-it-work.htm

[GhettoSmurf]

hmmmm thats really interesting. makes me really think about possibly trying some for a bit. does anyone have any experience with ALA? how was it?

[kook]

forget ala, its cheaper but you want r-ala i take about 200-300mg per carb meal depending, so about 100mg per 25-50g carbs, i used to always after eating a carb meal, get realy tired after about an hour, this is blood sugar dropping, but since taking, this does not happen anymore, vascularity in arms is more defined after taking it with carb meals, but take it with biotin, biotin is depleted when you take r-ala .....i think its $29.00 for 120 caps, i dont like namedroppin so if you want the joint, pm

[Orange357]

ALA is super ace!

[RoidRage]

you can get ALA at wally world for $5.84 a bottle.

[kook]

you sure can, but i tried it, not comparable to r-ala

not to mention the s in the racemic ala can be counterproductive to r

[RoidRage]

any good articles on r-ala you know of off the top of your head?

[kook]

Arch Biochem Biophys 2002 Jan 15;397(2):384-91 Related Articles, Links


R-alpha-lipoic acid action on cell redox status, the insulin receptor, and glucose uptake in 3T3-L1 adipocytes.

Moini H, Tirosh O, Park YC, Cho KJ, Packer L.

Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90033, USA.

The insulin signaling pathway has been reported to mediate R-alpha-lipoic acid- (R-LA-)-stimulated glucose uptake into 3T3-L1 adipocytes and L6 myotubes. We investigated the role of the thiol antioxidant dihydrolipoic acid (DHLA) and intracellular glutathione (GSH) in R-LA-stimulated glucose transport and explored the hypothesis that R-LA could increase glucose uptake into 3T3-L1 adipocytes in an oxidant-mimetic manner. R-LA pretreatment of 3T3-L1 cells stimulated glucose transport at early time points (30 min - 6 h), whereas it inhibited glucose uptake at later time points. Analysis of the oxidized and reduced content of LA in cells and medium showed that >90% of lipoic acid present was in its oxidized form. Furthermore, all oxidized forms of LA (S-, R-, and racemic LA) stimulated glucose uptake, whereas the reduced form, dihydrolipoic acid, was ineffective. Intracellular GSH levels were not changed at the early time points (before 12 h), while longer preincubation (24 - 48 h) of cells with R-LA significantly increased intracellular GSH. Pretreatment of adipocytes with R-LA increased intracellular peroxide levels at early time points (30 min - 6 h), after which it was decreased (12 - 48 h). R-LA also increased tyrosine phosphorylation of immunoprecipitated insulin receptors from 3T3-L1 adipocytes. These results indicate that (i) 3T3-L1 adipocytes have a low capacity to reduce R-LA and the oxidized form of lipoic acid is responsible for stimulating glucose uptake, (ii) R-LA modulates glucose uptake by changing the intracellular redox status, and (iii) the insulin receptor is a potential cellular target for R-LA action. (c)2002 Elsevier Science.

[Delphi]

Having read the abstract directly above and Haycock's article (twice) I still don't see why anybody would want to spend their money on ALA. Both articles are bogged down in scientific jargon but neither one of them states in clear English what benefit there is to taking ALA. Since neither one can clearly state what advantage there is, I assume that there is none.

[PowerManDL]

What it says to me is that ALL forms of ALA, when oxidized, have the ability to stimulate glucose uptake.

It also showed an increase in glutathione levels, which is an important anti-oxidant. I think it'd be worthwhile just for that property.

That study says nothing about the superiority of the r-form to the racemic form with regards to glucose uptake.

That said. Use that $20 to buy cow.

[Delphi]

mmm... leche

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

Originally posted by Delphi
Having read the abstract directly above and Haycock's article (twice) I still don't see why anybody would want to spend their money on ALA. Both articles are bogged down in scientific jargon but neither one of them states in clear English what benefit there is to taking ALA. Since neither one can clearly state what advantage there is, I assume that there is none.

The blood sugar clearance thing could theoretically be beneficial when cutting, cause it would mean insulin levels (which, as you know, halt lipolysis) would clear faster than usual so lipolysis could resume. However, ALA causes GLUT4 translocation on both myocytes AND adipocytes, so it basically helps feed the fat cell, which, when in calorie deficit means not much, but is not such a grand idea when on a gaining phase (calorie surplus).

Also, if you're an endomorph, this is a bad idea when gaining. Great for ectos, bad for endos.

Oh yeah, also, cause it "mimicks" insulin (loose phrase you gotta be careful throwing around), it sends the signal of a "fed" state, without the actual nutrients being present to "feed" it, which can cause a cascade of problems (not major problems, but but enough to disrupt homeostasis).

Other than that, it's a good anti-oxidant. I'd only use higher than usual amounts during refeeds when the nutrients are there to give the fed state after the ALA has sent the fed signal.

[kook]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


ALA causes GLUT4 translocation on both myocytes AND adipocytes,

haven't seen this yet, point in the direction

[kook]

Originally posted by PowerManDL
What it says to me is that ALL forms of ALA, when oxidized, have the ability to stimulate glucose uptake.


here's a little older study


Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.
Am J Physiol 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91
Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ.

The racemic mixture of the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant humans and animals. We determined the individual effects of the pure R-(+) and S-(-) enantiomers of ALA on glucose metabolism in skeletal muscle of an animal model of insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and dyslipidemia: the obese Zucker (fa/fa) rat. Obese rats were treated intraperitoneally acutely (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) or chronically [10 days with 30 mg/kg of R-(+)-ALA or 50 mg/kg of S-(-)-ALA]. Glucose transport [2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) uptake], glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nM). Acutely, R-(+)-ALA increased insulin-mediated2-DG-uptake by 64% (P < 0.05), whereas S-(-)-ALA had no significant effect. Although chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment significantly reduced plasma insulin (17%) and free fatty acids (FFA; 35%) relative to vehicle-treated obese animals, S-(-)-ALA treatment further increased insulin (15%) and had no effect on FFA. Insulin-stimulated 2-DG uptake was increased by 65% by chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment, whereas S-(-)-ALA administration resulted in only a 29% improvement. Chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment elicited a 26% increase in insulin-stimulated glycogen synthesis and a 33% enhancement of insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation. No significant increase in these parameters was observed after S-(-)-ALA treatment. Glucose transporter (GLUT-4) protein was unchanged after chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment but was reduced to 81 +/- 6% of obese control with S-(-)-ALA treatment. Therefore, chronic parenteral treatment with the antioxidant ALA enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and non-oxidative and oxidative glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle, with the R-(+) enantiomer being much more effective than the S-(-) enantiomer.



not tryin to turn anyone on to it, but there's a nice little debate goin on, and im bored

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

Originally posted by kook


haven't seen this yet, point in the direction

I'm not aware of any insulin "mimicker" that can solely work on muscle cells.

Do tell if you find one.

[kook]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


I'm not aware of any insulin "mimicker" that can solely work on muscle cells.

Do tell if you find one.

yeh i guessed this is what you were referring too, but i'm pretty sure compared to a placebo more nutrients are pushed to myocytes than adipocytes

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

It's certainly possible - myocytes may just have more GLUT4 receptors.

However, it still stands that GLUT4 are related to both types of cell and ALA does not solely effect one type of cell.