Purpose of Dextrose/Maltodextrin

[donraja]

what is the purpose of Dextrose/maltodextrin ? i see a lot of people using these supplements. Are they to be taken together and how much of each should one take?

[SoulOfKoRea]

they are carbohydrates that have a high value on the glycemic index scale, people use them to spike insulin to resupply your depleted glycogen stores after a workout, together doesn't matter, I've heard they go well together at a 50% of each(2 to 1 carb to protein) in pwo shake though, so if you get 50 grams of protein pwo, then try to get around 100 g (50 malto/50 dext), but 50 grams of dextore/malto(25/25) would be fine too.

[Holto]

replenishing glycogen is really important

rehydration of muscle is the first step of recovery

the insulin response should also stop your body from breaking down muscle

after an intense workout your body is breaking down muscle due to the rise of cortisol

IMO if there is any ONE key to gaining muscle it's to NEVER lose it...

after a workout you could be losing significant muscle and taking some dex/malto after a workout can stop the loss

I recommend a minnimum 75g's

[pinoy]

you recommend a minimum of 75g of dextrose/maltodextrin? wow good advice, you don't even know what his goals are, and his physical stats.

[Holto]

even if he's a little guy who's cutting I recommend 75

no need for sarcasm...

[pinoy]

i have to disagree with that, 75g of dextrose/malto is just overkill

[Holto]

how do you stop the catabolic activity of cortisol after a workout?

[pinoy]

uhhh by simply having carbs and protein

[Holto]

if it was only that easy

steak and potatoes would work but why sit there for an hour or more while you lose muscle

can you be more specific about what you take, and your stats?

[pinoy]

i have whey protein with ground oats in my postworkout shake, 5'7 155

[Holto]

well since you won't give me specifics I'll assume this is over your head

the glycemic response from the two foods you mentioned will not result in the necessary insulin response to halt proteolysis

[pinoy]

sure it doesn't, i've been doing this for ~4 months, before using oats i used dextrose/malto. so i'm making strength gains and being catabolic eh?

[Holto]

pinoy take this as a chance to learn

the difference is that your post w/o strategy allows muscle loss to occur

the time taken to digest the oats is a mistake

if you think that you are right and EVERYONE else is wrong with dex/malto start a thread and educate us

I bet you were not taking enough dex/malto to begin with

[pinoy]

hmmm, when did i ever say taking dex/malto was wrong? i said recommending 75g of dextrose/malto to someone without knowing anything about them wasn't good advice because it's overkill unless he's a monster at 220 pounds. and where did you get this number of 75?

[Holto]

ok genius

you have a guy who is 5'5", 160lbs @ 19%

how many grams of dex/malto does it take to get a significant insulin response ?

25 grams of whey are included in this shake...

[Holto]

Originally posted by pinoy
hmmm, when did i ever say taking dex/malto was wrong?

by admiting to not doing it

if you think it's the best method

why not use it?

if you are NOT using it I can assume you don't think it's the best method

unless you are the type of guy to throw 4months of training away on an experiment

being catabolic for an hour or two is not going to make you melt but if you want to be big you don't ever want to waste hard earned muscle

[pinoy]

wait, answer my questions then i will answer yours :D

and don't get offensive, i haven't insulted you in any way

[Holto]

Originally posted by pinoy
you recommend a minimum of 75g of dextrose/maltodextrin? wow good advice, you don't even know what his goals are, and his physical stats.

well since you are a newbie here I will take a deep breath

this post is very insulting if you don't realize why you should refrain from posting until you understand why

75g's is a realistic minnimum to offset a minnimum of 20g's of whey

I wouldn't reco less than 20g's of protein to any male even a young teen

since GR is greatly effected by protein it takes even more carbs to get the needed GR in presence of the protein

I believe I have answered all of your questions now...

[pinoy]

i use oats because i want to, i'm not telling anyone to stop what their doing and do what i do

[pinoy]

this is the first i've heard of taking 75g for all body types. 0.8g per kg bodyweight has been a recommendation i've seen many times

[Holto]

that formula puts a 150lb athlete at 54g's and with 20-40g's of whey it's not enough

the need for carbs varies greatly by bodymass but the amount of sugar needed for the right insulin response does not

in terms of glycogen replenishment a larger athlete needs more

in terms of insulin response size does not matter

either athlete will experience a quick rise in blood glucose level which will result in insulin response

a smaller athlete does not get a huge rise off 20g's just because he's small

if that was the case kids would have a diabetic coma just drinking a coke

[pinoy]

explain to me why such a high insulin spike is needed, when the body is already very insulin sensitive after a workout, the insulin spike from a fast digesting protein like whey, and the carbohydrates taken after a workout

[PeterParker]

STOP IT CHILDRENtuttut

*picks up holto's toys and puts them back in his pram*

*walks over to pinoys dummey which he spat out and puts it back into his mouth*

NOW GO TO YOUR ROOMS WITHOUT ANY PROTIEN SHAKES:bash: :cry: :disagree:

[Holto]

Originally posted by pinoy
explain to me why such a high insulin spike is needed

***to halt the proteolytic effects of cortisol

when the body is already very insulin sensitive after a workout, the insulin spike from a fast digesting protein like whey

*** it would take an enormous amount of whey to actually cause an insulin spike
*** when you say spike you are referring to a rise in insulin not large enough to be considered a spike

, and the carbohydrates taken after a workout

whey protein does create a decent insulin response, however, this would be nowhere near a spike

in the case with the oats a good portion of your whey is being converted by the liver into sugar before the oats have time to digest

when hepatic glycogen is low post workout whey gets converted immediately

I was 245 in November after a cut where I was taking 100g's after chest/tri/shoulders and back and 150 on leg days

for a weekly total of 350g's

I gained decent muscle in 5 months while dropping from 260

[Holto]

PeterParker touches Holto in his notty place next on Judge Judy

[PeterParker]

PWO shake has got to be liquid form, less time to digest. i have a two part PW.
1-PWO shake- within minutes of workout. 50gms D/M. 35gms Protein . 4 gm fat
2- 100gms of mixed nuts and raisons [ usually 15mins after shake] or 4 bananas
that works for me but EVERYBODYS DIFFERENT.:)

[PeterParker]

*Holto liked it and asks for more*

[Holto]

*PeterParker tests positive for halucinigens*

[pinoy]

don't forget that the increase in GH post exercise is extremely anti-catabolic by itself so using insulin as an anti-catabolic agent wouldn't be necessary. Any release of insulin is anti-catabolic and you will still get this with a lower GI. Its just not as rapid. i am still sticking with my good ol oats :D

[pinoy]

and to add, i think the pre-workout meal is more important. this is also another reason why such a spike to counter catabolism is not necessary IMO. With proper nutrition the chance of you becoming significantly catabolic is rare.

[Holto]

Originally posted by pinoy
With proper nutrition the chance of you becoming significantly catabolic is rare.

you have some howework to do bro

intense exercise releases cortisol

bottom line if you are training even reasonably hard you are catabolic after a workout

insulin is the bodies most anabolic hormone several times more anabolic than GH

[bradley]

Holto:D
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32142

[Holto]

this guy is just not learning

I like what you said at the end

"Every little bit helps"

the road to 200lbs is fought a gram at a time

[pinoy]

blah

[Don Birnam]

We'll agree that a post-workout shake can stop muscle-breakdown because it supplies the body with quickly-digested carbs and protein. Eating "steak and potatoes" right after is less optimal because it takes as while to digest, and during this time muscle is being broken down, right?

So my question is this: Could one eat "steak and potatoes", or say yogurt or something, just BEFORE the workout, and then avoid this problem? I don't mean a lot of food or anything. My logic is that by the time you are done the workout your body will be able to use the nutrients from this pre-workout meal and muscle-depletion is avoided.

Opinions?

[galileo]

Adding fats after your insulin high is a good way to throw on fat.

[bradley]

Originally posted by Don Birnam
We'll agree that a post-workout shake can stop muscle-breakdown because it supplies the body with quickly-digested carbs and protein. Eating "steak and potatoes" right after is less optimal because it takes as while to digest, and during this time muscle is being broken down, right?

So my question is this: Could one eat "steak and potatoes", or say yogurt or something, just BEFORE the workout, and then avoid this problem? I don't mean a lot of food or anything. My logic is that by the time you are done the workout your body will be able to use the nutrients from this pre-workout meal and muscle-depletion is avoided.

Opinions?

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7331&perpage=25&highlight=GI&pagenumber=1

Although steak and potatoes would not be the ideal preworkout food. The above thread should help with your question.

[SoulOfKoRea]

Bradley is the supermod :)

[Mystic Eric]

Originally posted by Don Birnam
We'll agree that a post-workout shake can stop muscle-breakdown because it supplies the body with quickly-digested carbs and protein. Eating "steak and potatoes" right after is less optimal because it takes as while to digest, and during this time muscle is being broken down, right?

So my question is this: Could one eat "steak and potatoes", or say yogurt or something, just BEFORE the workout, and then avoid this problem? I don't mean a lot of food or anything. My logic is that by the time you are done the workout your body will be able to use the nutrients from this pre-workout meal and muscle-depletion is avoided.

Opinions?


How before is "just before?" If you're talking like eating steak and potatoes and then going to workout immediately, good luck keeping that stuff down as you'll be off to the washroom throwing up.

[tarturon]

any online places where I can get Dextrose/maltodextrin ?

[geoffgarcia]

4 bananas post workout?
thats a lotta workout!
I thought I remember someone telling me once that its not very healthy to eat more than 1 a day? anyone else ever hear that?

[mrader]

Originally posted by tarturon
any online places where I can get Dextrose/maltodextrin ?


I can't find it online either. Is there a category it's under??? Does GNC sell it?

[SoulOfKoRea]

1fast400.com has dextrose for 2.00 per 2 lbs. I think

[geoffgarcia]

These are what I personally use. I hope the links help, I know when I was looking for these supps it was like pulling teeth trying to get links from people...


Dextrose
http://www.supplementdirect.com/
11lbs = 10$
50lbs = 40$

Maltodextrin
ProLab Carbpro (pure maltodextrin)
http://www.nextag.com/ProLab_Carbpro_Powder_2~56625383z27znz2700073zz1z2700067zzmainz2-htm
2lbs = 8.80$

Also, you can get these supplements added directly to protein if you visit custom shake sites such as
www.proteinfactory.com
www.proteincustomizer.com

good luck

[bradley]

Originally posted by geoffgarcia
I thought I remember someone telling me once that its not very healthy to eat more than 1 a day? anyone else ever hear that?

It is fine to eat more than 1 banana a day:)

[bradley]

Originally posted by tarturon
any online places where I can get Dextrose/maltodextrin ?

You can check in your home town for businesses that sell home brewing supplies. They should have dextrose.