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babbles
05-31-2003, 10:00 PM
Been lurking here for a while, so decided to finally post something here.

Anyhow, typically sob story - after college have gained a tidy sum of weight and now would like to lose some fat and gain some muscle back. Currently, if I remember correctly, my body fat is at 22%.
Needless to say I would like to decrease that.

My current plan of action is to do something along the lines of the Atkins Induction phase for 2 weeks; i.e. keep carbs ~20g a day. Then for the third week start a CKD type program. So that would give me 19 days with low (~20g) of carbs followed by 48 hour carb loading.
Then follow CKD for an yet undetermined amount of time. I really don't know how long something like that should be followed. A few months?
I would prefer to keep a more 'normal' well balanced diet, but to initiate fat loss and begin muscle gains, I thought CKD may be a good route.

So, any opinions on a diet plan such as this? Anything that may be better.

Again, my goals are to lose weight and to gain muscle as well as cardio endurance (I would like to be able to easily run 5k races again).

If anybody could help me out, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

bradley
06-01-2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by babbles

I would prefer to keep a more 'normal' well balanced diet, but to initiate fat loss and begin muscle gains, I thought CKD may be a good route.


If you prefer a more balanced diet then I would recommend just sticking with a balanced diet. You could lose weight just as easily following a balanced diet as you can with a ketogenic diet. Just create a small calorie deficit through diet, training, or a combination of the two. Make sure to get adequate protein and carbs and fill in the rest of your daily cals with low GI carbohydrates.


My current plan of action is to do something along the lines of the Atkins Induction phase for 2 weeks; i.e. keep carbs ~20g a day. Then for the third week start a CKD type program. So that would give me 19 days with low (~20g) of carbs followed by 48 hour carb loading.

I would start by having maybe a carb up after the first week, and just start with a 24 hour carb up instead of 48. You will need to replenish the lost muscle glycogen that was depleted over the course of the week.


Then follow CKD for an yet undetermined amount of time. I really don't know how long something like that should be followed. A few months?

Following it for the duration of your diet should be fine if you decide to go with the CKD.


Again, my goals are to lose weight and to gain muscle as well as cardio endurance (I would like to be able to easily run 5k races again).


You might expect small muscle gains while losing weight since you are new to training but I think focusing on one goal will be your best bet. If you are going to focus on cardiovascular endurance then again I think a more balanced diet would suit your goals better.

babbles
06-01-2003, 09:51 PM
I understand how a well balanced diet should be better, however I tried that route and maybe I just did not try as hard but I did not have much luck in dropping fat.

My primary goal is to lose fat. Secondary is to increase muscle mass and lastly I would like to be able to increase cardiovascular endurance.

Also, if it matters or not, I am rather very short for a guy and I dunno if I am going to use that as an excuse, but thus far it does not seem conducive to weight loss. However I have also been told by folks that because of my stout body structure I should have little problem bulking up.

If an Atkins type thing may be too severe for muscle gain, I assume I should still go to a lower carb diet for the time being?

What type of carbs are good for the refeed? We talking like whole weat pastas and breads, sweet potatos, or just anything that have carbs in it?

bradley
06-02-2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by babbles
I understand how a well balanced diet should be better, however I tried that route and maybe I just did not try as hard but I did not have much luck in dropping fat.

If you create a caloric deficit you will lose weight, regardless of whether you are following a ketogenic diet or a well balanced diet. Some people find that a ketogenic diet does have some advantages, one being the appetitie suppressing effect that it can have.



My primary goal is to lose fat. Secondary is to increase muscle mass and lastly I would like to be able to increase cardiovascular endurance.


I think you will have the most success if you concentrate on either gaining muscle or losing bf. From your post it seems like losing bf is your main goal so I would focus on that. Cardiovascular endurance will come just from the increase in training.



Also, if it matters or not, I am rather very short for a guy and I dunno if I am going to use that as an excuse, but thus far it does not seem conducive to weight loss. However I have also been told by folks that because of my stout body structure I should have little problem bulking up.


You could possibly have a slower metabolism but that shouldn't affect your ability to lose weight. Like I said create a calorie deficit.



If an Atkins type thing may be too severe for muscle gain, I assume I should still go to a lower carb diet for the time being?


I wouldn't expect to see much in the way of muscle gain while dieting. You could experience some since you are new to training but I doubt it will be a significant amount.



What type of carbs are good for the refeed? We talking like whole weat pastas and breads, sweet potatos, or just anything that have carbs in it?

Pretty much when you refeed you want to keep fat at minimum (approx. 15% of daily cals from fat) and protein at about 1g per lb. of bw. Of the fat calories that you consume I would make sure some were in the form of essential fatty acids. Here is a link to an article on carbing up when performing a CKD.
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/mcdonald/carb-up-and-ketogenic-diet.htm

babbles
06-02-2003, 03:05 PM
I have been doing the low carb thing since Saturday. Now being Monday, my third day, I am not sure what to think of it.

Already, I think I am going to switch to a more balanced diet, I am not sure if I like how being in a Ketogenic state makes me feel. It almost feels like I have a 'buzz' from drinking and it is driving me nuts.

I feel brain dead and can not concentrate at all. I have a technical science-type job, and it requires me to have some sort of brain function. Again, with the way I feel I am not sure if this is in my self interest.

However, it has only been three days which I assume is not long enough to fully adapt to. But, with what you have posted, it seems like going CKD at this point in time may not be in my best interest anyways.

In creating a calorie deficiency, would it be better to lose those calories from fat or from carbohydrates or from both?
Rather, what would be a good ratio of protein-carbs-fat, assuming 1g protein/lb body wt.

Anyhow, Bradley, I have highly appreciate your input thus far. Thank you.

raniali
06-02-2003, 03:16 PM
if you are a keto newbie - it takes 1-2 weeks to fully adapt to shifting on/off and using ketos for fuel. once this happens, it is easy and some people actually feel they have greater mental acuity. but - i think people go keto because they think its a cure-all. it's not. it's a diet and requires a calorie deficit, proper fats, enough protein and will power.

if you want to switch to a "more-balanced" diet, then i think maintaining enough good fats and quality protein should be the basis with the amount of carbs the main variable.

if you are new to lifting - you might make quality gains just by watching your food choices, lifting HARD and being patient.

bradley
06-02-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by raniali
if you are a keto newbie - it takes 1-2 weeks to fully adapt to shifting on/off and using ketos for fuel. once this happens, it is easy and some people actually feel they have greater mental acuity. but - i think people go keto because they think its a cure-all. it's not. it's a diet and requires a calorie deficit, proper fats, enough protein and will power.

if you want to switch to a "more-balanced" diet, then i think maintaining enough good fats and quality protein should be the basis with the amount of carbs the main variable.

if you are new to lifting - you might make quality gains just by watching your food choices, lifting HARD and being patient.

I agree. Since you are new to lifting I think you will see a lot of progress the first couple of months. Feeling groggy from the CKD will only succeed in hampering the progress that you could be making, although like Raniali said you will adapt eventually.

I think the CKD is a good diet, but it is not for everyone. I also believe for someone who is just beginning to nail down a good training and diet routine a more balanced diet will better suit their needs.