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w8lifter
08-18-2001, 02:05 PM
Of eating carbs only for one meal and protein & fat together for the next meal...and alternating these throughout the day.

I've seen this diet a few times. The only thing I can think of is more time between eating carbs (every other meal) so more of a control over insulin release???? Is that the point?

Wizard
08-18-2001, 02:10 PM
I know this diet.I don't know though what's the point.Sure it has to do with controling insulin levels but I don't understand how it achieves that by the time that protein aids in the release of glucagon which balances insulins actions. :confused:

Tryska
08-18-2001, 02:26 PM
food combining is bullcaca.

if anything, if you are using carbs - well vegetables as your carbs - you would want to eat those with some fat anyway, so that you can get some of those fat-soluble vitamins out of there.

plus, you would want to eat other carbs with protein and fat to mitigate the insulin response in any case....so w8. i don't know what the point is...*lol*

Cackerot69
08-18-2001, 02:27 PM
I know what the point is, in fact I'll be using it come bulking...but I'm tired so I'll tell ya later....suspense...oooo

Cackerot69
08-18-2001, 02:46 PM
OK I'll end the suspense...

Basically, carbs AND fat create a synergistic fat storing effect.

So you eat protein throughout the day, and eat either carbs and little fat for glucose replenishment and some energy, then you eat protein with some fat and little carbs for the EFA's and little insulin.

This is intended for gaining weight, with the best possible muscle : fat ratio.

I could go more in depth, but like I said...I'm fookin tired.

Yaz
08-18-2001, 03:00 PM
Tryska said bullcaca.

*lol*

:D

the doc
08-18-2001, 03:52 PM
cack makes good point here. I think this is otherwise known as macronutrient cycling. You definitely dont want to eat fat with carbs as the insuling spike initiates the synthesis of triglycerides from acetylCoA (from the metabolism of pyruvate/glucose). Other hormonal triggers cause transport of triglycerides to adipose tissue (fat cells) for storage. Any triglycerides consumed during this insulin spike will be transported to adipose tissue for storage as well.

w8lifter
08-18-2001, 04:51 PM
K, so in english :D your saying any fats consumed during an insulin spike will be immediately stored?

So, that whole deal w/ eating protein and/or fats w/ carbs to slow the insulin response....how does that figure in? Is it a good thing or a bad thing to eat fat/protein w/ carbs?

Yaz
08-18-2001, 05:45 PM
Interesting theory there.

Makes sense. TELL ME MORE~@!%$!%!!

Tryska
08-18-2001, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by w8lifter
K, so in english :D your saying any fats consumed during an insulin spike will be immediately stored?

So, that whole deal w/ eating protein and/or fats w/ carbs to slow the insulin response....how does that figure in? Is it a good thing or a bad thing to eat fat/protein w/ carbs?

actually, considering how insulin spikes work, that is an interesting theory (about fats being immediately stored) and i want to hear more too.

one caveat though.....i think that what KINDS of carbs makes a difference.

ie: vegetables should be eaten with a little fat, so that you can absorb the fat-soluble vitamins from them. however they also have little to no effective carbohydrates in them. i guess what i'm getting at is the GI makes a difference.

Cackerot69
08-19-2001, 04:59 AM
Ahhh, good nights sleep does wonders for being tired... :)

Ok here;s the deal. The plan is to alternate carb/protein/no fat, with fat/protein/no carbs. Because, carbs and fat in the same sitting is because they can promote a synergistic insulin release compared to eating them alone. Carbs and fat in one meal is basically the most effective way to put on fat.

About the fat lowering the GI, GI only gives a measure of glucose response, not insulin response...which may or may not be correlated (depending). So, even though the rate of glucose absorbtion may be lower, the synergistic effect of adding high blood levels of fats, carbs and insulin all at the same time = you be a fat mofo.

So, the idea is to avoid this situation by alternating carb and fat meals (or eating all fat early in the day, and all carbs later, vice versa, or however clever way you can set it up...I'll be alternating). Because, this diet is meant to be used when trying to gain muscle with the best possible muscle : fat ratio, and insulin is very important when gaining so we don't wanna eliminate it, just control it by taking advantage of it's anabolic properties and not it's fat storing properties.

The meals containing only protein and carbs with very little fat are your anabolic meals. These meals will cause high levels of insulin which will bring glucose and amino acids into your muscles and because there is little fat in your blood stream, the fat gaining effect of high insulin is a non-issue. You would want to make sure this meal is post workout, and a few other times to promote more anabolism...so long you don't keep insulin high ALL day long, you won't become insulin resistant. Yes this spike will prevent fat breakdown, but we're just trying to gain muscle without gaining fat here, not trying to lose it...and just about any meal spikes insulin enough to prevent fat oxidation.

The protein and fat meals come in because keeping insulin high all day would lead to insulin resistance, and you need some fats in there. EFA's are essential (hence the E) for proper body functioning, health, and gaining muscle as well as oxidizing fat...so we need some meals with them in. So to balance out you high insulin with little fat anabolic meals, you eat some higher fat low carb meals. This will also prevent spill-over into fat stores of ingested carbs due to already saturated glycogen stores. Basically these meals get amino's in your muscles, get you your EFA's, without the insulin so you don't store fat. Also, less carbs in a meal means the body burns less carbs for energy (glucose preservation = ace when gaining), so more fat will be burned between meals...if everything else is good, you may have the potential of gaining muscle and losing fat on this diet.

That's the point of it. Protein + carb meals are your anabolic meals, protein + fat meals are you fat burning meals. In the end because of the hypercaloric nature of all gaining diets, you will probably still gain some fat, but it will definately be MUCH less than if you didn't use this nutrient timing stategy...which is exactly why I'm trying it out.

Wizard
08-19-2001, 05:30 AM
It sounds interesting.
So,how a "cycle" would be?
Would you start the day with a "fat burning" protein/fat meal or with an anabolic one of carbs/protein since it's the time when you're in a catabolic state?
This question is based on the theory that if you have eaten an "anabolic meal" in the morning,then your insulin levels would be high(for the next 5-6 hours) and following it after some hours with a meal that contains fat,you have more chances of putting on bodyfat.(because insulin levels are high,even though blood sugar levels are back to normal)

Cackerot69
08-19-2001, 05:51 AM
It really doesn't matter I don;'t think...the end result will pretty much be the same.

I'll be starting the day with a protein/fat meal so I kick my myself outta catbolism but the fat burning from the night long fast will still be in effect, and this sets me up so post workout is a high carb meal.

w8lifter
08-19-2001, 07:30 AM
F*CK!!! :bash: I hate it when I have to pull out the dictionary to read one of your posts. It really pisses me off!!

......Uh, I'm just joking....well, not really, but I hope you take that as a compliment and not an insult ;) :D

goin' to check out the journal now that I see the light :p

Proteen
08-19-2001, 09:25 AM
Meal cycling, I knew I did that for some reason. Maybe calorie control. But I didnt know it helped in that way. So heres what i do cack, tell me if it sounds right:

Meal 1
oats/powder (carb/pro)

Meal 2
whole eggs/broccoli (fat/pro)

Meal 3
dextrose/powder (carb/pro)

Meal 4
cottage cheese/peanuts (fat/pro)

Meal 5
rice/chicken (carb/pro)

Meal 6
red meat/greens (fat/pro)

Q: Would the lactose in the cottage cheese make the 4th meal easily converted to fat?

Wizard
08-19-2001, 09:48 AM
Meal 6 is not ok.You may add EFA's.Saty fats decrease insulin sensitivity.