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View Full Version : A few wsb questions for the next nine weeks



DK
06-18-2003, 07:52 PM
I've got a few quesions before I start up westside training for another nine week session.

1) My bench isn't going up. I've checked my form (seems to be okay), Triceps are not a weakpoint (I've 3 board pressed 260) I think I'll add in more direct chest work. I think my chest might be what's keeping me down. Also I'll be adding bands and working a lot off 2-boards for maxes. Anything else I should try?

2) I know JM presses are a great supplemental exercise, but what about doing them for max effort work? Would JM's with bands be a good ME lift?

3) What is the best % wave to use for the box squat? I was thinking about this. week 1: 65% week 2: 70% week 3: 73% week 4: 75%.

4) Has anyone tried a carpet press for max effort?

I might think of something else later.

Thanks.

Xg74
06-18-2003, 08:26 PM
You know, you could just go to elitefts.com and get the answers there.

My bench hasn't gone up either, pretty sad, but oh well. Be sure to work the entire range, what I am going to do with my next cycle, is devote two weeks to doing one portion of the lift, i.e. I just did floor press to work the mid range, I will do that again, then I will move onto lockouts, then onto presses from the bottom, then I will be done. For example, I can lockout 295, press from the bottom 245 but can only floor press 195. Do it all, working one specific portion can be good, but don't forget the rest of the press. I neglected the rest (mainly did bottom portion lockouts etc) my first cycle.

JM's are not a good ME exercise. I don't know why, but I remember either Bob Youngs, or Tate said something to the effect that it was not a good ME exercise, possibly because it does not transfer over to the bench very well or something like that. You could try it though.

I believe that the wave 68 70 72 74 is preferred, but I forget, someone asked the question on elitefts awhile ago. Its there.

Try the carpet press, it wouldn't be listed on Dave Tates site if it didn't work.


Westsiiiiide!

RG570
06-18-2003, 08:35 PM
whats your sticking point on bench?

DK
06-18-2003, 08:42 PM
Xg74: Thanks for all the help

RG570: My bench sticking point is like 4" off the chest right on the 2 board.

RG570
06-18-2003, 09:13 PM
delts man. lemme go see what your doing in your journal and then i'll edit this post.

yep, im totally thinking its delts, you dont to any direct work. i would try some miltaries and front raises. your triceps are obviously strong, if you wanna bring delts/pecs up, maybe try incline DB press?

as far as periodization goes, when i pay attention is go 55-60-65

benchmonster
06-19-2003, 08:03 AM
if you are stuck 4 inches off chest, then you are not moving the bar fast enough. It is a matter of speed. If the bar is moving fast when it hits the sticking point, it has a better chance of getting through that sticking point.

Lower your weights on speed bench day to about 50% of your RAW 1rm.

On speed squats, if you are really doing them for speed, as you should if following the 9 week basic training program, and you want to waive the weights, it goes 50%, 52.5%, 55%, 57.5%, and back down to 50% to start the wave over again.

Most people I know would have a very difficult time doing many sets with 75% of their 1RM on squats. They certainly would have a tough time of it if they are only resting 45 seconds between sets, as is prescribed.

And dkliewer, get your arse over to train with us sometime. We train at The Real Gym, in Tulsa. Drop me a line sometime and we can set up a time I can meet you there and help you out. Online help is fine, but I can show you more in an hour in the gym, than I could tell you about in a month here.

The Real Gym is a pretty hardcore place. No leg warmers, gloves, spandex, Valeo belts, or that sort of thing. But lots of serious trainers, and it seems like everyone there squats over 600, and benches close to 400 or more.

We have a 900+ squatter, two 700+ deadlifters, two 500+ benchers, and several Elite powerlifters, as well as lots of guys who compete in Strongman and Highland games.

And I don't own the gym, so I am not plugging it for that reason. But if you are serious about getting strong, PM me, or email me and we can get you over here some time.

B.

Paul Stagg
06-19-2003, 10:13 AM
1) My bench isn't going up. I've checked my form (seems to be okay), Triceps are not a weakpoint (I've 3 board pressed 260) I think I'll add in more direct chest work. I think my chest might be what's keeping me down. Also I'll be adding bands and working a lot off 2-boards for maxes. Anything else I should try?

** If your sticking point is 4 inches up AND your bench isn't improving, work on speed (as BM said.) It is also indicitive of a tricep weakness.

2) I know JM presses are a great supplemental exercise, but what about doing them for max effort work? Would JM's with bands be a good ME lift?

** I don't think so.

3) What is the best % wave to use for the box squat? I was thinking about this. week 1: 65% week 2: 70% week 3: 73% week 4: 75%.

** Looks a bit high. I'd work 60 - 70% if you lift without a squat suit. That's what I do, anyway.

4) Has anyone tried a carpet press for max effort?

** I haven't.

Paul Stagg
06-19-2003, 10:13 AM
And take advantage of Benchmonster's offer. I'd kill to be able to train with some guys who are that much stronger than I am.

DK
06-19-2003, 04:47 PM
BenchMonster: I thought you were supposed to train box squats with a percentage of your 1RM on box squats not full squats. So you could go to a higher % then.

I think it'd be awesome to get to lift with you guys sometime. I bet you don't have any 165's at The Real Gym. That gym you described sounds just like mine. Not hardcore in anyway. Anyway, I'm in Weatherford, but if I ever happen to be in the Tulsa area, I'll let you know. The last time I was in Tulsa was last summer.

DK
06-19-2003, 05:10 PM
Two more questions

I want to do speed sumos after my box squats occasionally. Should I use the same percentage guideline as the squats (60%-70%)

Is there a set way to lower and raise the volume in wsb. I tried this routine that Dave Tait had laid out for Testosterone. He had large, medium, and small volume days. How should I do this should I just go by feel or should I do a large then two mediums then a small or something like that? Hope you understand that.

I told you I'd probably have some more questions. :)

Paul Stagg
06-20-2003, 08:15 AM
Speed deads with around 60%, and occasionally work up higher than that.

I try to increase volume over time, then drop it back down when I feel beat up. You have to fiddle with it to see what works for you. My volume can vary greatly, for example, if I need to get out of the gym quickly, or just don't feel up to a long workout... or on days I feel more energetic, I may just do a bunch more work.

Franjipani
06-20-2003, 10:06 AM
Volume's pretty much up to the individual. Once you've been at it awhile, you can guage pretty fairly what you can get away with.

Remember that this isn't bodybuilding, so the recovery factor is a bit different, but you can still let it become excessive pretty quick.

In other words, go by feel.

DK
06-20-2003, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the input. I'm just gonna go by feel on the volume. I'm also going to be adding more movements for the delts and the chest. I always thought my speed was good. I can get 130 up 3 times in 3 seconds. I'll be adding some resistence to my DE bench days over the next nine weeks.

DK
06-23-2003, 06:00 PM
How come you always here to do good mornings to a 3RM instead of a 1RM on max effort days? I've already done them for both, and I know some of the guys here do them both ways. Any thoughts?

NateDogg
06-23-2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by dkliewer
How come you always here to do good mornings to a 3RM instead of a 1RM on max effort days? I've already done them for both, and I know some of the guys here do them both ways. Any thoughts?

I actually just read an article on testosterone, via elitefts, and it said to do up to 3rm only on GM's until you get your form down, then you can do up to 1rm from then on.

Paul Stagg
06-24-2003, 07:17 AM
Do what YOU need to do.

IMO, for good mornings, you should stick to triples until you get used to doing heavy good mornings.

I also think that triples, doubles, or singles are fine on your ME day for any lift, depending on how you feel. If you are feeling a little run down or having a bit of an off day, work up to a triple PR instead of a single.

Also, if you are trying to gain weight (muscle), I'd do more triples on ME day.

Saturday Fever
06-24-2003, 10:10 AM
Santiago had a good idea regarding Good AMs and Squats. Generally if you're a small squatter (like most of us here are) you'd be better off sticking with a more frequent use of squats and not Good AMs. Something like this:

50% sqauats
30% deads
20% Good AMs

The speed issue is one I'm going to revisit myself. I can only (and barely) press 305 off my chest, but from 2 boards I've gotten 395 up. That's a hell of a discrepancy.