vpx supplements

[djc04042003]

Has anybody used VPX supplements to get big? if so did they work or should i just save my money?

[NPursuit]

Their fat burners are top notch.
Their protein powders are excellent.
Their prohormones are good but they are expensive.

[bigswole30]

They are the best. NPursuit I bet you saw that coming. As with any supp there are no magic pills. It takes alot more to get big.

[Paul Stagg]

I wouldn't buy them.

[Blood&Iron]

Their MRPS are pretty decent. Lots o' fiber anyway.

You're not gonna get magically big from using them, though.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
I wouldn't buy them.

Why not? Just curious.

[Paul Stagg]

Because they use deceptive and misleading terms in their advertising - by naming their supplements similarly to drugs, and using terms like 'fat burning protein'.

I don't do business with people who use such marketing tactics.

[NPursuit]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Because they use deceptive and misleading terms in their advertising - by naming their supplements similarly to drugs, and using terms like 'fat burning protein'.

I don't do business with people who use such marketing tactics.

I dont' blame anyone for not using their products for those reasons.

They do make some killer burners & powders though.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Because they use deceptive and misleading terms in their advertising - by naming their supplements similarly to drugs, and using terms like 'fat burning protein'.

I don't do business with people who use such marketing tactics.

Thanks.

In a sense it is a fat-burning protein. Their protein Micellean contains unrefined complex carb's that spare and prolong protein's fat-burning effect. These carbs combined with natural whole grain fiber slow the release of glucose into the blood and stabilize the fat promoting hormone insulin. Stable blood sugar levels allow the body to continully acces stored body fat to be used for energy. However, most people do not look at it with this much depth.

As for the names of their products I have to agree. The only thing is with all te various companies who put out prohormones they are only so many names. Their newer products such as 1-test/4-test cyp and meltdown z-14 do not have steroid soundning names. 1-test and 4-test are exactly that. If they were named something else that would be misleading as well.

[Paul Stagg]

That isn't a 'fat buring protein', it's protein mixed with carbs and fiber to regulate your insulin and glucose levels. That's what they should say.

They are selling this stuff to people who are using it thinking it will somehow 'burn fat' which isn't true.

BTW, people who buy and use products without bothering to do a bit of research deserve what they get... so I certainly don't feel sorry for that shmuck, I just think businesses should hold themselves to higher standards.

It's kinda like me selling you my 68 'stang, and telling you it will win at the drag strip when it has the original 6 cyl engine. Sure, it will win at the drag strip... after you replace the engine, transmission, upgrade the suspension, and buy new wheels and tires. Better yet, I could stick 289 decals on it so you *think* it's a 289, when it's really a 6 cyl.

[Paul Stagg]

BTW - VPX isn't the only company out there I won't buy, they just happen to be the one we're discussing.

The number if supplement companies I'll do business with is far smaller than the number I won't.

[Holto]

Originally posted by bigswole30
Their protein Micellean contains unrefined complex carb's that spare and prolong protein's fat-burning effect

could you explain how protein has fat-burning effects

glucagon?

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by Holto


could you explain how protein has fat-burning effects

glucagon?

I will not go find some scientific study or anything. I admit it does not directly burn fat like a thermogenic product. Look at how it effects certain processes in the body. It increases lean body mass which in return results in a higher BMR which burns more calories. That is how I look at things.

[Holto]

I guess it's a matter of percepion

to me it dosen't even increase lean body mass, rather training does that

to say it increases lean body mass implies that this would happen without training

[Paul Stagg]

If that's the case, ALL protein is fat buring, right?

It's misleading, is it not?

[bigswole30]

I see both of your points which are very good ones. However, their marketing does not bother me. Name one company that does not hype their products in some way. This is a business and VPX does tons of it. I would love to have the income of Jack Owoc.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by bigswole30
I see both of your points which are very good ones. However, their marketing does not bother me. Name one company that does not hype their products in some way. This is a business and VPX does tons of it. I would love to have the income of Jack Owoc.

*** That's not the point, the point is that certain supplement companies twist words to sell their products. That is misleading.

It's a given every company will hype their product, but where do you draw the line? Do you draw the line when you start naming the products after anabolic steroids?

[bigswole30]

My point is that VPX belongs to Jack and he can do whatever he wants. People should cut him some slack because he comes up with some of the most innovative products on the market. I first saw VPX ads about three years ago and I knew right off they were not AAS. People who think there is an add for AAS in the middle of a muscle mag are either dumb or naieve.
I admit that the names were catchy and that is when I did some research on VPX and their products. Also, they are ggeting away from the steroid names. Look at their newer products:
Syngex
Meltdown z-14
1-test
4-test

I know what you all will say about 1-test and 4-test. Here are the words from Jack himself,

1-TEST IS REAL 1-TEST THEREFORE, ANY OTHER NAME THAN 1-TEST, WOULD BE DECEPTIVE. 4-TEST CYPIONATE BY VPX IS CONVERTED TO REAL 4-TESTOSTERONE IN THE BODY AS PROVEN BY BLOOD WORK.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by bigswole30
My point is that VPX belongs to Jack and he can do whatever he wants. People should cut him some slack because he comes up with some of the most innovative products on the market. I first saw VPX ads about three years ago and I knew right off they were not AAS. People who think there is an add for AAS in the middle of a muscle mag are either dumb or naieve.
I admit that the names were catchy and that is when I did some research on VPX and their products. Also, they are ggeting away from the steroid names. Look at their newer products:
Syngex
Meltdown z-14
1-test
4-test

I know what you all will say about 1-test and 4-test. Here are the words from Jack himself,

1-TEST IS REAL 1-TEST THEREFORE, ANY OTHER NAME THAN 1-TEST, WOULD BE DECEPTIVE. 4-TEST CYPIONATE BY VPX IS CONVERTED TO REAL 4-TESTOSTERONE IN THE BODY AS PROVEN BY BLOOD WORK.

*** Of course he can name the product as he wishes. Again BigSwole , you're missing the point. We aren't talking about his freedom to choose his products names. We are looking at why he would name his products after various anabolic streroids?

As to whether people think that when they see an add in a muscle mag that the product in question is a steroid, it's the fact that they are lead to believe the product has qualities that are almost the same as an anabolic steroid.

Might I add that it is almost impossible to sway your stance on this issue as you are biased.

[bigswole30]

I am not mssing the point. Prohormones are alternatives to steroids and give similar gains in smaller quantities. Hence, the names are similar, but not the same.

How are the qualities different between AAS and prohormones. This excludes 1-test b/c it is a steroid.

[Paul Stagg]

I don't cut anyone slack who uses deceptive marketing, and I woldn't want to have any amount of money if I had to ignore my principles of honesty to get it.

But that's just me.

As I mentioned before, I'm quite aware most supplement companies act similarly. It's a big reason they are going to end up being over regulated.

And that deception is a huge problem among lifters, and IMO, brings all of us down.

I'm far more impresses by some one with a high income who gets it without resorting to deception.

[Holto]

interesting point on supp's becoming over regulated, unfortunately too true

[Paul Stagg]

I think its interesting that its OK to be deceptive if others do it and if you make lots of money.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by bigswole30
I am not mssing the point. Prohormones are alternatives to steroids and give similar gains in smaller quantities. Hence, the names are similar, but not the same.


*** If they give similar gains in smaller quantities would it be safe to say that a higher dosage would elicit a greater effect?

"similar"

\Sim"i*lar\, a. [F. similaire, fr. L. similis like, similar. See Same, a., and cf. Simulate.] 1. Exactly corresponding; resembling in all respects; precisely like.

2. Nearly corresponding; resembling in many respects; somewhat like; having a general likeness.


Now lets' look at one of VPX's products: ParaDeca

Description:
PARADECA™ (with ANDROTRIOL) is a synthesized matrix of synergistic phytochemicals mixed amidst powerful intrinsic prohormones. These ingredients are uniquely packaged with an oral syringe to dispense exact dosages. Along with the dispenser is a multiple dose vial containing a liquid suspension of the phytochemicals and prohormones. PARADECA's™ multi-layered phospholipids naturally break down, dispersing billions of prohormone and phytochemical molecules into the body. These substances potentially influence luteinizing action, anti-aromatase activity, increase receptor affinity and also allow the intrinsic action of 19 Norandrostenediol, 4-androstenediol and ANDROTRIOL to take place. Additionally, this process allows for a high conversion rate of the DIOLS and TRIOL to testosterone and nortestosterone (nandrolone).

*** Please explain to me what this psuedoscientific babble means? I'll tell you what it means. It means that this is a product that is being pimped off the noted anabolic drug Deca. It even comes with a "oral syringe" so that you can measure out your dosages just like you would when you inject an anabolic steroid.

If you honestly believe that this product has the qualities likened to Deca then I suggest you go and do some more research. Please explain to me just exactly how this product has "simlilar" qualities that link it to Deca? Keep in mind that, in order for ParaDeca to posess the same qualities as Deca one would also need to see gains that would be similar to the results of someone who has taken Deca.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by Maki Riddington


*** If they give similar gains in smaller quantities would it be safe to say that a higher dosage would elicit a greater effect?

"similar"

\Sim"i*lar\, a. [F. similaire, fr. L. similis like, similar. See Same, a., and cf. Simulate.] 1. Exactly corresponding; resembling in all respects; precisely like.

2. Nearly corresponding; resembling in many respects; somewhat like; having a general likeness.

Here os why I say they are similar. About three years ago I did two cycles of test enanthate. The first went up to 750mg per week and the second was only 250mg per week. Both cycle lasted eight weeks. During this time I was in college and partying and half ass training. With the first cycle I put on 24 pounds. I would say 5-10 pounds was water and fat due to my diet and training.

I did a cycle of 1-ad at 600mg per week along with Paradeca at 9cc per day. This was a 6 wek cycle. My nutrition and training were near perfect. I put on 17 pounds with little to no increase in bodyfat. I kept 14.

Surely if I had the same diet and training while on the test my gains would have been much better. My point is that prohormones can not/do not give the same gains quantity wise, but they do give similar gains quality wise. How is that not like steroids? I know you are going to say I am full of ****e, but oh well. I know what I gained.


Now lets' look at one of VPX's products: ParaDeca

Description:
PARADECA™ (with ANDROTRIOL) is a synthesized matrix of synergistic phytochemicals mixed amidst powerful intrinsic prohormones. These ingredients are uniquely packaged with an oral syringe to dispense exact dosages. Along with the dispenser is a multiple dose vial containing a liquid suspension of the phytochemicals and prohormones. PARADECA's™ multi-layered phospholipids naturally break down, dispersing billions of prohormone and phytochemical molecules into the body. These substances potentially influence luteinizing action, anti-aromatase activity, increase receptor affinity and also allow the intrinsic action of 19 Norandrostenediol, 4-androstenediol and ANDROTRIOL to take place. Additionally, this process allows for a high conversion rate of the DIOLS and TRIOL to testosterone and nortestosterone (nandrolone).

*** Please explain to me what this psuedoscientific babble means? I'll tell you what it means. It means that this is a product that is being pimped off the noted anabolic drug Deca. It even comes with a "oral syringe" so that you can measure out your dosages just like you would when you inject an anabolic steroid.

If you honestly believe that this product has the qualities likened to Deca then I suggest you go and do some more research. Please explain to me just exactly how this product has "simlilar" qualities that link it to Deca? Keep in mind that, in order for ParaDeca to posess the same qualities as Deca one would also need to see gains that would be similar to the results of someone who has taken Deca.

[bigswole30]

Here os why I say they are similar. About three years ago I did two cycles of test enanthate. The first went up to 750mg per week and the second was only 250mg per week. Both cycle lasted eight weeks. During this time I was in college and partying and half ass training. With the first cycle I put on 24 pounds. I would say 5-10 pounds was water and fat due to my diet and training.

I did a cycle of 1-ad at 600mg per week along with Paradeca at 9cc per day. This was a 6 wek cycle. My nutrition and training were near perfect. I put on 17 pounds with little to no increase in bodyfat. I kept 14.

Surely if I had the same diet and training while on the test my gains would have been much better. My point is that prohormones can not/do not give the same gains quantity wise, but they do give similar gains quality wise. How is that not like steroids? I know you are going to say I am full of ****e, but oh well. I know what I gained.

Sorry the post got mixed in with yours.

[JHolmes145]

big swole is so vpx biased.he like works for them or sumthin

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

He may very well be affiliated with them in the future.

[bigswole30]

I am biased toward all companies that put out great products, but get slammed by misinformed people. VPX is not the only company whose products I like. Here is a list:

Beverly
Molecular Nutrition
Ergopharm
BDC
Avant Labs
Longevity Medical Research
Xtreme formulations

I support all of these companies b/c
A) I have used their products or
B) The feedback on them is excellent.

I will openly say that I am pursuing employment with VPX, but as of now I am not affiliated with them financially in any way.

[chris mason]

The CEO for VPX used to run car dealerships, he must be a slimeball.....










errrrrr, wait, that's what I do as well:eek: !


Note: The above is true.

[bigswole30]

You are incorrect sir. This is exactly what I am talking about.

Jack Owoc(ceo) is a former high school chemistry teacher. Mike Lemus(COO) used to be involved in the automobile business. Trust me he was alot more than a car salesman.

[Maki Riddington]

“Here is why I say they are similar. About three years ago I did two cycles of test enanthate. The first went up to 750mg per week and the second was only 250mg per week. Both cycle lasted eight weeks. During this time I was in college and partying and half ass training. With the first cycle I put on 24 pounds. I would say 5-10 pounds was water and fat due to my diet and training.”

I did a cycle of 1-ad at 600mg per week along with Paradeca at 9cc per day. This was a 6 wek cycle. My nutrition and training were near perfect. I put on 17 pounds with little to no increase in bodyfat. I kept 14.

Surely if I had the same diet and training while on the test my gains would have been much better. My point is that prohormones can not/do not give the same gains quantity wise, but they do give similar gains quality wise. How is that not like steroids? I know you are going to say I am full of ****e, but oh well. I know what I gained.”

*** So, in other words, you’re basing your own experience on results that you were lead to believe were “similar” in nature to the results one may get from a dose of 750 mg of Test?

At this point I should remind you that this is the internet and that when one resorts to personal evidence it changes the whole equation of what is being debated. Personal empirical evidence is a cop out in my view. It shows that if it has worked for you then your opinion is justified. I understand if you are simply sharing your personal opinion. But it is another thing to justify your opinion that the labeling issue at hand is not an attempt at false marketing.

“My point is that prohormones can not/do not give the same gains quantity wise, but they do give similar gains quality wise.”

*** Can you expand on this more as it pertains to the weight gain issue?

[Holto]

in the spirit of being constructive...

Originally posted by Maki Riddington
At this point I should remind you that this is the internet and that when one resorts to personal evidence it changes the whole equation of what is being debated. Personal empirical evidence is a cop out in my view

I couldn't agree more, well said

[WillKuenzel]

Originally posted by bigswole30
My point is that prohormones can not/do not give the same gains quantity wise, but they do give similar gains quality wise.

I thought muscle was muscle. What's the difference?

[bigswole30]

I am tired of this. Sorry I defended a company that makes great products.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by bigswole30
I am tired of this. Sorry I defended a company that makes great products.

*** If you feel so strongly about a company then you will have no problem defending them. Getting tiered is what I've seen you do before.

Another cop out in my opinion.

[bigswole30]

How am I copping out? Please tell me. It is obvious I like VPX and you all do not. It's that cut and dry. Let's sum it up.

VPX has deceptive marketing. They use steroid sounding names and overhype their products. True, but they can do what they want.

I have used many VPX products and I honestly feel they give gains similar to low doses of steroids. I will never resort back to using AAS b/c I think VPX prohormones give comparable gains.

Their products are overpriced in some peoples opinion. Maybe, but we would have to know what it cost to manufacture liposomes. We would also have to figure in what it costs for advertising, employing two chemists, having an in-house cGMP facility etc....

VPX does not meet label claims? I know this is false. I could care less what triangle labs tested.

What else do we need to touch on? Let me know and I will give you my standpoint.

Why do you all who do not use VPX act like you know so much about them? It baffles me. I have consulted with at least 20 people using VPX and have yet to see one get no gains. Afterwards they all say they could care less how much they cost or what they name their products.

[Maki Riddington]

[i]
VPX has deceptive marketing. They use steroid sounding names and overhype their products.TRUE, but they can do what they want.
[/B]

*** That's my point, which you have agreed with. End of discussion.

[bigswole30]

Deceptive in your opinion. I think it is marketing at its best. j/k. If you ever decide to try VPX please let me know. I have a bro who will gladly hook you up for free. End of discussion.

[SquareHead]

Maki are you going to pass this up. You could have a control group a vpx group and a hell even a Dan's 1-tnt group. All 3 people agreeing to follow a similar diet and training program all with very close starting stats and cycle goals. Then maybe it would be the VPX issue to bed. Doubt it but what the heck it's worth a shot. Id venture to say it would be of interest on the boards if the 3 participating members would update there progression often and keep a good journal for say 30 days.

[bigswole30]

NPursuit if you read this thread about your past VPX cycle. I do not want to do so without your permission.

I have never met NPursuit in person, but have had many discussions about VPX. He used them in the past with little to no results. He admitted that his diet and training were not in check. He was given a cycle of Paradeca, EQ, and Syngex for free by a VPX guy to restore his faith in them. He did a 4 weeks cycle following a moderate cutting diet. If I remember correctly he gained 12 pounds with a decrease in bodyfat. Upon completion of the cycle he has continued to cut I believe and has maintained 7 pounds. He is now using a BDC cycle and is planning on posting a comparison of the two. Since you all beleive I work for them or something I thought you all would like to hear from someone else.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by SquareHead
Maki are you going to pass this up. You could have a control group a vpx group and a hell even a Dan's 1-tnt group. All 3 people agreeing to follow a similar diet and training program all with very close starting stats and cycle goals. Then maybe it would be the VPX issue to bed. Doubt it but what the heck it's worth a shot. Id venture to say it would be of interest on the boards if the 3 participating members would update there progression often and keep a good journal for say 30 days.

*** I am willing to give anything a try.

[SquareHead]

bigswole30 As I am sure you're source for VPX products is not into passing out his product for free all the time maybe an (as scientifically as possible) public experiment would be a good way to go. Now if Dan would just chime in...

[Paul Stagg]

I want to try the fat burning protein.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
I want to try the fat burning protein.

o fot the chocalate. j/k. I know your being sarcastic.

[PowerManDL]

I'd be up for it. I want to see the steroid-like gains I can get.

[bigswole30]

What do you consider steroid like gains? 10-15 pounds of muscle in 4-6 weeks. How's that?

[NPursuit]

Originally posted by bigswole30
NPursuit if you read this thread about your past VPX cycle. I do not want to do so without your permission.

I have never met NPursuit in person, but have had many discussions about VPX. He used them in the past with little to no results. He admitted that his diet and training were not in check. He was given a cycle of Paradeca, EQ, and Syngex for free by a VPX guy to restore his faith in them. He did a 4 weeks cycle following a moderate cutting diet. If I remember correctly he gained 12 pounds with a decrease in bodyfat. Upon completion of the cycle he has continued to cut I believe and has maintained 7 pounds. He is now using a BDC cycle and is planning on posting a comparison of the two. Since you all beleive I work for them or something I thought you all would like to hear from someone else.

Everything you wrote is correct bro except I didn't maintain the 7. I went on a pretty sever restriction after my cycle and was experimenting on how much I could hold onto. I held onto 5 pounds, and all of my strength. Not bad considering I was ranging 500-800 cals below my maintenance level and running like the wind. If I had kept cals up I'm sure I could have easily held onto more but you never know till you try something.

I believe VPX PHs work. I believe they make some great products. I also believe they make some BS products but so doesn't just about every other company. They do not get my full recommendation because of their marketing and prices but I will continue to buy their fat burners and powders.

[PowerManDL]

Originally posted by bigswole30
What do you consider steroid like gains? 10-15 pounds of muscle in 4-6 weeks. How's that?

That'd be decent. Set me up for a trial run. I keep accurate notes of diet and training in my journal, so it shouldn't be any issue as to what's doing what.

[bigassdan]

Hello boys.......

So whos interested in participating?

Hopefully well known WBB'ers.

[bigassdan]

Hello boys....... I have been extremely busy as of late and not been on the board much.

I think that this is an excellent suggestion and would be quite interesting.

What substances are we involving?

[JustinASU]

This could be extremely interesting....I think detailed journal by unbiased members should be kept in the journal section. I would love to volunteer but I'm not well known enough.

[WillKuenzel]

I'd be willing. I'm cutting for a contest though so that might not be the same as someone else who is bulking. I've kept a good journal and it tends to be even more accurate since its getting closer to contest time.

[SquareHead]

Personally Id be interested in seeing both the vpx ph's and fat burners working. I think the ph would be easier as the fat burner would really heavily depend on the persons metabolism , diet, and training. If we could try to keep those the same then it would be interesting. The ph's I think the biggest concern would be getting people of very similar size and starting measurements.

[Maki Riddington]

Like I mentioned, I'm willing to give it a go. However, not at the expense of my bank account. I'm going to start a clean bulk August 1st.

[bigassdan]

I think the experiment should be with ONE product.....otherwise we won't know what the results are from.

Ok so we've got Powerman and Maki, now we need a control.

I think that either would be an excellent tester for TNT.

Not at their expense of course.;)

[YoBrickWall]

yo- i might be interested since i am 100% clean. let me know more about it and ill get back with yo

ybw

[AdamGberg]

i am highly interested in trying out one of the above mentioned transdermals.....shoot me a PM if you need a lab rat...

[SquareHead]

I would be willing to be the or a control. Only supplements I take are vitimins creatine protien and water. Will everyone be following the same workout program? I'd love to see every one agree on that one. lol Any way I would like to see this work so Are we going to be able to get free vpx PH's for this? Time to get the ball rolling I think.

[bigswole30]

I will see what I can get for this experiment. What VPX prohormones would you all want to see tested:

1-test/4-test cyp
1-test
EQ
Paradeca
Syngex

How about Syngex VS. 1-TNT?

[SquareHead]

lol looks like a list of AS to me. *snicker If it's vs 1-tnt I would say that it sould be a 1-test product. Which ever of the list above would fit that.

[Holto]

test them all 'swole

get everything you can

if we have a few groups it would be much more accurate than a few individuals

I think the end result will be both groups gained well and it will be a matter of cost for comparison

[bigswole30]

I agree Holto.

What are hormones in 1-TNT? Is it just 1-test?

[Holto]

custom trans

1-T & 4-Ad

OR

1-T & 1,4 ?

[bigswole30]

Syngex by VPX is 1-test and 4-ad propylcarbonate, so that could be compared to the first. 1-test and EQ could be compared to the second.

One more thing. I want to have a person I know do the VPX. This may sound unfair, but I do not trust everyone on this board. No offense. I would have him post pics with holding dates etc.... What do you all think?

[bigassdan]

the whole thing just turned sour methinks.

Since Maki and PowermanDL are moderators I think that they would be prime candidates for the PH comparison.

[bigswole30]

Bigassdan, check your PM.

Which products would you wish to compare?

[Maki Riddington]

I think Power and I are fine canidates for the VPX test. I have no problem eating my words if the gains are steroid like.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by Maki Riddington
I think Power and I are fine canidates for the VPX test. I have no problem eating my words if the gains are steroid like.

I need to know what products?

1-test cyp
4-test cyp
Syngex
EQ
1-test prop
Paradeca

[Maki Riddington]

Whatever you feel will give me the most gains. It's up to you if I'm going to be a lab rat.:)

[PowerManDL]

Basically what Maki said. :)

[Holto]

this needs to be a sticky

[bigassdan]

I would think a product that contains both 4-AD and 1-Test.

1-TNT is such. I recommend 6 grams of 1-Test and 9 grams of 4-Ad.

So pick your VPX product and we'll get this show on the road!

This is all pretty cool....should be interesting.

[bigswole30]

I think we should do 1-test cyp and 4-test cyp. I will donate the 1-test cyp, but the 4-test cyp would have to be purchased. It cost $46 with S&H. That is the best I can do. I will check with another hookup. Give me a day or two. I will try to get him to come to the board. His name would be NGAPRO.

[bigassdan]

thats not going to fly bro....it has to be an established member here that everyone would trust or no deal.

[SquareHead]

I totally second Dan on that!!! Big time. Must be a well established longtime wwb member and one who has proven their knowledge to the masses! This can be a good experiment why cheapen it by bringing in someone no one knows? Which could be your little sister for all we know.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by SquareHead
I totally second Dan on that!!! Big time. Must be a well established longtime wwb member and one who has proven their knowledge to the masses! This can be a good experiment why cheapen it by bringing in someone no one knows? Which could be your little sister for all we know.

I do not mean that he would be invoved in the comparison. You all misuderstood. I am going to see if he will come to the board to see what we are doing. If he likes it he will donate the VPX product to whoever agrees to use it.

[SquareHead]

Oh cool fair enough swole. So just to keep this from ending up on the back burner.... When do you think you can get the sups for Power man and Maki? I am very interested in seeing the results of this experiment. Lets get this thing going. I believe you guys will need to toss some pms back and forth to get shipping info and such. Keep us up-to-date in here just or lets get a tentative start date for this.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by SquareHead
Oh cool fair enough swole. So just to keep this from ending up on the back burner.... When do you think you can get the sups for Power man and Maki? I am very interested in seeing the results of this experiment. Lets get this thing going. I believe you guys will need to toss some pms back and forth to get shipping info and such. Keep us up-to-date in here just or lets get a tentative start date for this.

I tried calling today, but he was not in his store. As soon as I am able to talk with him I will let everyone know whats going on.

[Maki Riddington]

Sounds good.

[PowerManDL]

Word.

[bigswole30]

You all rather compare 1/4-test CYP or Syngex(1-test/4-ad) with 1-TNT?

[SquareHead]

My self "not being the lab rat" would like to see what ever you think would show the greatest gains / what ever you think would compare most favorably. Lab rats maki and powerman do either of you have a specific product you would be more interested in?

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by SquareHead
My self "not being the lab rat" would like to see what ever you think would show the greatest gains / what ever you think would compare most favorably. Lab rats maki and powerman do either of you have a specific product you would be more interested in?

*** Like I mentioned, I will test whatever I'm given. Personally, it would make more sense to use a brand product that has been noted to be effective.

[PowerManDL]

Same. The 1-test/4-ad product would likely be the best bet.

[bigswole30]

Both are 1-test/4-ad products. 4-test is VPX's deceptive AAS sounding name for 4-ad. LOL. I can testify to the effectiveness of Syngex. The feedback thus far on 1/4-test cyp has been good. These are supposedly their most potent products to date. Does Bigassdan plan on giving the product for free?

[bigassdan]

Absolutely.

I think that whatever VPX's 1-test and 4-ad PRODUCT would be a good test. If that is Syngex than so be it.

I'm going to PM Powerman.

Oh yeah, how long of a cycle are we going to run? I think 6 weeks for optimum results.

[SquareHead]

Ok Where do we stand with this? Just curious.

[AdamGberg]

someone should start a new thread where the updates can be tracked....just a thought

:hide:

[bigassdan]

Yeah, a new thread would be great.

We need to agree on the cycle length.

PowermanDL is doing the TNT. I would assume that MakiRiddington is doing Syngex?

[Holto]

If we do start a new thread (sticky)

we should have Maki and PmDL's history of any anabolic use, steriods, PS's, PH's

current stats etc...

are both subjects bulking ???

lots of detail needed

[PowerManDL]

Most of that's freely available in my journal. However, I'll put it here just for the hell of it.

5'9, currently 181-184 lbs. Lifts in the sig are accurate for the most part.

Haven't used steroids (yet), but I did have some limited prohormone use from about four years ago with the original orals that came out. Never saw any gains from those, for reasons that are now obvious about ****ty bioavailability and so forth.

Currently I'm in a process of leaning out. Not really cutting per se, but not bulking either. Slowly trying to ease the bf % down. I'd prefer to bulk if I'm going to have chemical assistance, but I can go either way I suppose.

[kinetixtrainer]

Power,
you will see the most dramatic gains while on a bulk.

just my 2 cents.

[Holto]

I think for the sake of accurate comparison both subjects should be bulking

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by PowerManDL
Most of that's freely available in my journal. However, I'll put it here just for the hell of it.

5'9, currently 181-184 lbs. Lifts in the sig are accurate for the most part.

Haven't used steroids (yet), but I did have some limited prohormone use from about four years ago with the original orals that came out. Never saw any gains from those, for reasons that are now obvious about ****ty bioavailability and so forth.

Currently I'm in a process of leaning out. Not really cutting per se, but not bulking either. Slowly trying to ease the bf % down. I'd prefer to bulk if I'm going to have chemical assistance, but I can go either way I suppose.

*** I have no idea what I'm using since I do not know who will be supplying me the prohormone/s.

I've done two cycles thus far. One when I was 17 (the worlds worst planned cycle) which I lost all my gains plus some and one I did about 6 months ago. It was a dbol only cycle at 15 mg a day for 8 weeks.

I am planning a lean bulk right now, and will be starting it August 1st.

Anyways, my stats are 198 5'9.5.

[bigswole30]

Sorry for the delay guys. I am still waiting to hear what I can get for free.

[Wikked1]

I'm curious about how this is all gonna play out....should be interesting to say the least. How about a seperate journal where both subjects can enter all the information??....I know you guys both have journals but a seperate journal for this I bet would generate lots of interests......and best would be some before and after pics.......and for my 2 cents worth the similarities between the 2 subjects should be kept close as possible.....goals....weights...workout....and diets.....not much good if you're going to do a head to head product compare unless all things can be as close to equal as possible.

[bigassdan]

Ok bigswole, I'm ready to get this thing goin. Decide if you wanna do straight 1 test or a product with both 4-AD and 1-T.

[SquareHead]

Ditto. I am ready to see what happens here. Swole did you talk to your guy?

[the doc]

this is going to be intertesting, powerman and maki i think you're going to be happy with both products. I found the 1 test / 4 ad mix subtle yet effective

[Holto]

Originally posted by bigassdan
Ok bigswole, I'm ready to get this thing goin. Decide if you wanna do straight 1 test or a product with both 4-AD and 1-T.

I think it's decided to do 4-AD and 1-T

if you guys compared just 1-T I'm pretty sure 1-TNT would prevail

also if both subjects are doing a clean bulk the only thing that needs to be exactly the same is the amount of cals above maintenance

[bigswole30]

O.K. here is the thing. I have not heard anything from my guy. Who knows what's up?

However, I have a 20ml bottle of 1-test cyp that I would possibly donate. Also, I am now distributing for Longevity Medical Research and Anabolic Medical Research. They both put out liposomal prohormones very similar to VPX. I know the LMR brand is excellent, but I am having the AMR products tested now.

Did you all want this to be 1-TNT vs. VPX or transdernal vs. liposomal?

HOw are we comparing results. I think the fair comparison would be gains, sides, dosages etc..... I think the product that gives the best gains with the least hormone and sides should win.

[Holto]

Originally posted by bigswole30
I think the product that gives the best gains with the least hormone and sides should win

thats stacking the deck 'swole

I agree less sides is a factor

BUT why would less hormone be of any relevance ?

IMO

I think the product that gives the best gains with the least COST and sides should win

cost and sides are relevant the amount of hormone in the product is totally irrelevant to the user unless it effects sides

[bigswole30]

Holto I see you point. What about my other question?

1-tnt vs. VPX or transdermal vs. liposomal

Which is it?

[Holto]

well since all the hoopla surrounded VPX it makes sense that we do a showdown between 1-TNT vs VPX

and based on that we use 1-T + 4-AD

I would also like to see whatever VPX products gave you the best gains

so basically your favourite 1-T & 4-AD from VPX vs the same hormones in 1-TNT

[Holto]

this will also compare quality trandermal with some of the best lisposomal

[bigassdan]

ditto everything Holto said.

[kinetixtrainer]

Its seems to me that someone may be stalling.

Everyone here knows that it should be VPX vs. 1-TNT. And we also know that the product should contain 4ad and 1-t if it is on a bulk.

IT IS TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

[SquareHead]

Ya we totaly need to get this going. Paging swole paging DR. swole....

[bigswole30]

I will donate VPX 1-test cyp, but I do not have the 4-test cyp. I could throw in another lipsomal 4-ad product that I feel is equally effective as VPX.

How long of a cycle are we talking?

[kinetixtrainer]

I think it should atleast be a 6 week cycle!

[SquareHead]

I think 6-8 would be ok more leaning to the 8 side.

[kinetixtrainer]

agreed!!

atleast 6 to begin to see the real gains and sides of each product.

[Holto]

6wk's because it's such a common length

[bigmean38]

i want to do another 6 weeker on the 1TNT but I can't find the email from which to order..........

i know this is off topic but I want to get started soon!!

Thanks!

[bigassdan]

transmusclegel@yahoo.com

[Maki Riddington]

So, what's the deal here? Who do I have to email my address to?

[bigassdan]

I have Powerman's address and am waiting for the details of what bigswole is going to provide for you Maki.

What kind of 4-AD?? Made by whom?

Kind of skews the whole VPX vs 1TNT but its cool.

[Holto]

Originally posted by bigassdan
Kind of skews the whole VPX vs 1TNT but its cool.

and then if 1-TNT yields significantly better results the 4-AD could be suspect

[SquareHead]

Ya mang I realy wanted to see VPX put to the test!!

[Wikked1]

me too I've been watching this thread forever it seems.

[bigassdan]

Well if you wont provide VPX's 4-AD, lets just do a 1-TEst vs 1-Test comparison.

Sound good to everyone? Lets get this thing goin.

[kinetixtrainer]

I believe someone has punked out!

[Holto]

give him time Kinetix

if you wan't to pony up the bucks for the VPX product be our guest and we can get this started

dan:

since most of this hoopla started over 1-test products specifically that would be interesting to see a direct comparison

[bigswole30]

I am not punking out. I was willing to give 1-test cyp, but I was not willing to give the 4-cyp as well. I have ofered to give a different brand of liposomal prohormone.

I have also been hesitant of giving these products b/c of a few PM's I recieved. I can't mention I sell products, but people want them for free.

I have still not had my question answered.

Transdermal vs. Liposomal

1-tnt vs. VPX

Which is it?

[PowerManDL]

I thought the contest was 1-TNT v. VPX.

If that's the case, get the VPX 1-test product and compare it to 1-TNT.

[kinetixtrainer]

Holto:
There has been plenty of time and the supps were dicided on a few posts ago. I call like i see it, if that bothers you oh well!

Power: I think comparing 1-test only would be a good comparison as well.

Swole: It doesn't matter if it is liposomal or transdermal. This will be done to compare 1-TNT vs. VPX. (that means any VPX 1-test product, liposomal or otherwise.)

[Holto]

Originally posted by kinetixtrainer
Holto:
There has been plenty of time


you don't really know this
he's waiting to get free stuff, sure he could have bought it by now, that was all I meant

Originally posted by kinetixtrainer
Swole: It doesn't matter if it is liposomal or transdermal

I think it does

a great deal of this hoopla centers around liposomes

the VPX liposomal product has 1 gram of test

dan's will have 9-10

[BUFF STUFF]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
That isn't a 'fat buring protein', it's protein mixed with carbs and fiber to regulate your insulin and glucose levels. That's what they should say.

They are selling this stuff to people who are using it thinking it will somehow 'burn fat' which isn't true.

BTW, people who buy and use products without bothering to do a bit of research deserve what they get... so I certainly don't feel sorry for that shmuck, I just think businesses should hold themselves to higher standards.

It's kinda like me selling you my 68 'stang, and telling you it will win at the drag strip when it has the original 6 cyl engine. Sure, it will win at the drag strip... after you replace the engine, transmission, upgrade the suspension, and buy new wheels and tires. Better yet, I could stick 289 decals on it so you *think* it's a 289, when it's really a 6 cyl.


A bit late for this thread but paul has agood point, on VPX and any other supplement companys

SUPPLEMENT COMPANY`S WANT YOUR MONEY!!

[bigassdan]

I'm actually pretty sure that far less than 9 grams would surpass the 1 gram in the liposomal. I think that 7 grams should do the trick nicely.

Nicer price as well.

[kinetixtrainer]

Holto:

There have been issues brought up about transdermal and liposomal, I agree with that. But the main issue is VPX VS. 1-TNT regardless of the transport system. Dan has stated for swole to pick which ever VPX products he wishes. To bring another company's product into the mix just throws too many variables in.

We all want to see 1-TNT vs. VPX

In respect to the amount of grams in each product. Their final judgement will come from the ratio between gains, dosages, sides, and cost. All of this was stated earlier in the thread. I feel the feed back can be trusted since it is coming from Maki and Powerman.

[Holto]

absolutely

[Goin_Big]

I'm very interested in this now that I finally opened this thread :D If you need any other test subjects gimme a ring, I'd be happy to try it out. Hey power, if you get good results on the liposomal you'll be my hero cuz then I can try it :D

[bigswole30]

Here is my deal. I want to see the comparison, but I am not willing to buy the products at cost for someone else. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get in contact with my guy from VPX. I promise I am not punking out. I thought he would supply the cycle for free b/c if the VPX product provailed they would have new customers. Do you all see what I mean. The only reason I mentioned another brand is b/c I bought a ton of their products and would not lose much money y donating the product. They are liposomal as well, but have slightly more hormone per bottle than VPX. I have witnessed the results from these products so I feel very comfortable putting them up against 1-TNT.

[Goin_Big]

I honestly wanna see liposomal vs transdermal to finally end all the debates about which one works better. Everyone immediately says trans. I'm guessing you're talking about LMR bigswole and if we can get someone to supply a trans then we can really see how each one works. Why worry about which brand works better when we can compare delivery systems?

[bigswole30]

The LMR products are developed by the same manufacture VPX used before building their in-house facility.

[Maki Riddington]

So, there will be no VPX donated? If so, I'm out. Find another tester if someone wants to compare another brand. My quarrel was with this particular brand.

[Goin_Big]

I'll take his place ;)

[bigassdan]

The original debate was about the outrageous prices of VPX products that contain very little androgen. If you take something else with more androgen and throw it into the fray you are totally changing the whole concept.

I had a feeling this was never going to happen.

But, I will donate a six week cycle of 1-TNT to Powerman if he will document his progress in a thread other than his journal.

At least then we will have a reputable representation of what one can expect while using a transdermal.



:strong:

[Goin_Big]

Dayum, I hate you power, lol. Good luck.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by bigassdan
I had a feeling this was never going to happen.


*** :thumbup:

[bigswole30]

I was hoping to get the VPX cycle for free. Unfortunately at this time I can't afford to give a cycle for free. Sorry, I have bills to pay.

[Wikked1]

There's got to be a way we can make this thing happen right? This is a head to head of 1-TNT to VPX 1-test or is it the 1-Test Cypionate? I know a 240cc of the old 1-Test is ~ $100....that's roughly a 6 week supply....I don't blame anyone for not wanting to shell out $100....but would a 1 time only deal be possible? ............how can we get this thing off the ground???

[bigswole30]

I am still trying to get in touch with my guy. You all can email him at quads@cyber-rights.net. Maybe if he gets several emails he will come through.

[PowerManDL]

Originally posted by bigassdan
But, I will donate a six week cycle of 1-TNT to Powerman if he will document his progress in a thread other than his journal.

At least then we will have a reputable representation of what one can expect while using a transdermal.

Most certainly. While I'd still keep up with my journal, I'd make a separate sticky for this purpose in the journals section.

Same would go for Maki if he gets a VPX product.

Originally posted by bigassdan
I had a feeling this was never going to happen.

Word.

[bigassdan]

Originally posted by TryN2GetBigR
Since I have seen several people promising to provide results while using VPX products but no one seems to want to shell out the money, I will post regular reviews and status on whatever stack I do.

Nobody has to buy the product for me, I just want advice on what the most potent stack might be using the VPX line.

Originally posted by TryN2GetBigR
MONEY IS NO OBJECT!!!

I also have another individual ready to get going on a VPX program too. So we will have results from two people with very different body types.

1. 5'9" 195lbs. 12%fat

2. 6'5" 245lbs 16%fat

We have access to all the neccessary tools for keeping proper track of body composition, weight, and strength. We may even check our VO2 Max Pre and Post if time is available.

So Let us know what you want to see!

no offense bro, but this was to be done by two moderators. That is the only way that the results would have been credible.

If you wanna start your own thread and document whatever you want to document, that is fine. But I think it is very strange that you joined up on 8/9 after all this had been settled to magically volunteer.

Everybody else interested in REAL results will see that to so dont think you are getting over on anybody.

Anyway Powerman, your stuff will be in the mail this week.

Hope everyone has their boots on, cuz I think the continued BS is only going to get deeper.

tuttut

[Holto]

if the powerman and maki expriments have the same parameters it dosen't matter if they run concurrently

ie: both guys do a 6wk cycle with 500 cals above maintenance

power could start his now and when 'Swole ponies up the VPX maki could start his cycle

erh ?

[kinetixtrainer]

This is true.

Swole: just let us know when you can supply the goods.

[TryN2GetBigR]

Okay, well nevermind just thought I would try to help. Last time I put in my 2 cents.

[YoBrickWall]

tryn2cetbigr-why dont u still post it anyway. i think more people would be interested than yo or they think.

ybw

[bigswole30]

I wanted to let you all know that there is a guy from www.ironmagazineforums.com that was just hired by VPX. He said he will see what he can do to donate some products.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by bigswole30
I wanted to let you all know that there is a guy from www.ironmagazineforums.com that was just hired by VPX. He said he will see what he can do to donate some products.

*** You mean Go Pro?

[PowerManDL]

Wow. That's irony in a can right there.

[bigswole30]

Originally posted by Maki Riddington


*** You mean Go Pro?

Yes. If he gets me a decent deal I will buy the products for the thread.

[Twin Peak]

Yeah, I am sure GoPro is going to donate anything to be tested. LMAO.

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by Paul Stagg
I don't cut anyone slack who uses deceptive marketing, and I woldn't want to have any amount of money if I had to ignore my principles of honesty to get it.

But that's just me.

As I mentioned before, I'm quite aware most supplement companies act similarly. It's a big reason they are going to end up being over regulated.

And that deception is a huge problem among lifters, and IMO, brings all of us down.

I'm far more impresses by some one with a high income who gets it without resorting to deception.

This is an excellent point. Marketing such as this is deceptive, and regardless of the efficacy of the product is terriblr for the industry as a whole. It is as much responsible for the overregulation as anything.

[PowerManDL]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Yeah, I am sure GoPro is going to donate anything to be tested. LMAO.

Maybe some training advice from Flex that's been "rigorously tested against the thousands of people he's trained and logged meticulously."

But otherwise, LOL

[neo]

I have found VPX to be the best quality supplements on the market! I have used Micellean for years, Clenbutrx for years, and most of their prohormones as well. Everyone I know uses at least one of their products. I guess everyone has their personal favorites, and mine is VPX, no doubt.

[Maki Riddington]

Ha, I doubt Go Pro would donate any VPX products, especially to me.