Creatine and Injuries

[RainerG9]

Ive been through several injuries during the past 3 years, including slipped discs, tendonitis and chondromalacia (knee injury), which have caused long periods of inability to lift weights and play sports...Im still trying to recover from tendonitis and chondromalacia, and when I start weightlifting again (hopefully in no more than a month, if all goes well) I wanna be extremely cautious with what I do, cause I cant risk another injury, (btw im only 17)

I was thinking of using some creatine to help me gain back some strength and size (ive lost 15 pounds in the last 3 months! :mad: ) once or a month after I resume training, but the following came to mind, it might be complete nonsense but I thought of getting an opinion on this:

Say you have hit a plateau, so ur muscles and tendons/ligaments are at a certain strength level, and u decide to take creatine to boost muscle strength...the creatine will make ur muscles stronger, but not ur tendons and ligaments.
Wont this expose the tendons/ligaments to an increased load which may be too much for them, thus probably causing injury?
Or will they just adapt?

Sorry if this seems as a stupid question, but to me its very important that I dont do anything which could lead to another injury..
Any input would be appreciated.

thnx

[Holto]

your logic about tendons and ligaments is sound, however, creatine is not going to effect strength levels that significantly

the reality of it is you don't want to train heavy for a few months

from what I understand chondromalacia dosen't ever go away

I have had it my whole life

do you take glucosamine?

[Harrison486]

Along with chonromalacia, tendonitis usually doesnt go away. It usually stays around your whole life, but goes through periods instead.

[RainerG9]

Holto: I take glucosamine, but only started taking them after I injured my knees, although most say its only useful as a prevantitve tool..
Ive just finished the second bottle.. from ur experience, how long should i take glucosamine for? or should i never stop taking it?
I take 1200mg a day, is that enough?

btw, u say uve had it all ur life..how do u go about with leg training then? is there anything u avoid/dont do at all? can u still train heavy?
any input on this would be greatly appreciated coz i dont know how to go about with my training once i resume lifting..


Harrison486: thnx for the reply..not very encouraging, :p but its a reality im afraid im gona have to face...

[Holto]

Originally posted by RainerG9
Ive just finished the second bottle.. from ur experience, how long should i take glucosamine for?

*** it can take months to build up worn cartilige
*** I personally can never stop it
*** I take 1500/day

I take 1200mg a day, is that enough?

*** I think so but I'm no expert

btw, u say uve had it all ur life..how do u go about with leg training then?

*** I trained light until I built up my vastus medialis
*** I did lunges and squats with my feet parallel
*** I squated 95 and 135 for a long time

*** The problem with going light is that your dominant leg can take more load, at some point you have to decide you are ready to increase weight and challenge yourself

*** I decided when I could flex my leg hard and not see my patella move laterally I was ready and my vastus medialis
had been built up (hokey but logical)

*** the problem is essentially an imbalance in strength between the vastus medialis and vasuts lateralis

the vastus lateralis will allways be stronger but the vastus medialis is what prevents the patella from moving laterally and wearing on cartilige (chondromalacia)

is there anything u avoid/dont do at all?

*** leg press, squats below parallel, any open chain exercise like leg extensions

can u still train heavy?

*** about a year after I was squatting 135 I hit 275x8 and have since pulled a muscle in my pelvis (I'm currently not training)

any input on this would be greatly appreciated coz i dont know how to go about with my training once i resume lifting..

take your time

I'm sittting here busted up in more ways than one because I trained too heavy too soon

you want it all right away but just focus on steady progression

[xMeat_Headx]

Originally posted by RainerG9
Ive been through several injuries during the past 3 years, including slipped discs, tendonitis and chondromalacia (knee injury), which have caused long periods of inability to lift weights and play sports...Im still trying to recover from tendonitis and chondromalacia, and when I start weightlifting again (hopefully in no more than a month, if all goes well) I wanna be extremely cautious with what I do, cause I cant risk another injury, (btw im only 17)

I was thinking of using some creatine to help me gain back some strength and size (ive lost 15 pounds in the last 3 months! :mad: ) once or a month after I resume training, but the following came to mind, it might be complete nonsense but I thought of getting an opinion on this:

Say you have hit a plateau, so ur muscles and tendons/ligaments are at a certain strength level, and u decide to take creatine to boost muscle strength...the creatine will make ur muscles stronger, but not ur tendons and ligaments.
Wont this expose the tendons/ligaments to an increased load which may be too much for them, thus probably causing injury?
Or will they just adapt?

Sorry if this seems as a stupid question, but to me its very important that I dont do anything which could lead to another injury..
Any input would be appreciated.

thnx

You have nothing to worry about, but if you're taking it easy, creatine won't do a whole lot of good. It gives you more 'energy' so you can train more intensly for more sets/reps.

It doesn't make your muscles strong enough to overpower your tendons and ligaments. The only thing that really does that is anabolic steroids. Your tendons and ligaments will strengthen as your muscles do.

[Holto]

gaining strength too fast can make your muscles strong enough to overpower your tendons and ligaments

[dirty-c]

I've got some bad news for ya friend. I had to stop bodybuilding nearly 2 1/2 years ago because I developed an irritation in my shoulder and elbow that doctors are calling tendonitis. It isn't very painful, just extremely irritating. Its like when I'm sitting it a chair, I cant decide if I'm more comfortable with my arm by my side or on the arm rest. Actually, neither is comfortable so I figget endlessly.

I've gotten x-rays, MRIs (with the injection ink which is supposed to help them see tissue better) and doctors say they cant find anything wrong. I've gone through physical therapy. I've taken various NSAIDs such as ibuprophen and celeberex (and a few other COX-2 inhibitors that I can't remember the names of). Nothing has helped. The doctors/drugs are about as useful as tits on a boar.

I thought maybe I just say ***** it and try to lift throught the pain, but my affected side feels like is tearing off my body when I do bench if I do a weight that will fatigue we within 20 reps. Basically, the type of stimulus required for muscle gain causes me too much pain. And its a bad pain, not the burning (gooood)kind. Feels like electricity.

I hate to be the messenger of bad news, but things don't look too good for people like you and me. However, don't think for an instant that I've lost hope. Weightlifting was my LIFE (perhaps even too much so). I've read that a Glucosame/Chontrotin supplement, as well as plenty of Omega-3's (ALA from flax and DHA/EPA from fish oil), along with GLA from borage oil (an Omega-6) can reduce inflammation.

I just started taking all these supplements yesterday, so I obviously don't know how its going to go, but I'll be sure to keep you posted.

[RainerG9]

hey dirty-c, thnx for replying.

btw, i didnt clarify it before, my knees have tendonitis and chondromalacia, and ive also got shoulder and elbow problems, which were thought to be tendonitis...after 3 months of doing no exercise and just a lot of physio (thinking that it was tendonitis) the pain was getting worse and worse, so i decided to visit the chiropractor i used to go to when i had back problems in the past..

she found that i had some problem in the cervical spine, which was affecting a nerve, which was causing the pain in the shoulders and elbows...and seriously after one therapy session with the chiropractor my shoulder pain went away by 90% and ever since Ive been swimming (she said it will help solve the problem) and now my elbows are nearly ok too..

i just thought of mentioning that since u say that u have had this pain for so long and the doctors say they cant find anything wrong..
u might wanna check this possibility out...

good luck

[dirty-c]

Can chiropractors correct problems that can't be seen in Xrays? I thought chiropractors delt with alignment of bones. Therefore, if I had a bone alignment problem, I assumed it would show up in the Xray. My logic here could be completely wrong though. Thanks for the suggestion, maybe I'll do that.

[RainerG9]

dirty-c:

Im assuming u had X-rays of your shoulders/elbows...

what im saying is, i have some problem in the cervical spine, which affects some nerve and which is what is causing the pain in my shoulders and elbows, which was thought to be tendonitis..the symptoms are the same as tendonitis, but the root of the problem is in the cervical spine, which can be fixed by a chiropractor since it has to do with bones/joints in the spine..

Im not saying this is surely what u may have, but it could be a possibility..

[dirty-c]

Did you feel any pain in your back? I don't have any back pain, but I would be ecstatic with joy to find out that it was some kind of misalignment in my back that was causing my pain.

I don't get my hopes up too high, but I have to remain positive and confident that I will eventually find a cure. I scheduled a chiropractic consultation for tomorrow.

[RainerG9]

Thats the weird thing, i dont feel ANY pain in my back, yet when the chiropractor treated it the pain in my shoulders improved dramatically just after one session...

best of luck to you

[thutch90]

I had similar problems with knees and ankles in high school. Towards my second year it was quit or have surgery so I quit. Weight lifting really would hurt it but, back then I did not do whole lot of weights.

Cycling helped me build the muscles through me knees and a bit in my ankles. I took asperin on a daily basis and it seemed to help. I still cannot run to this day.

[dirty-c]

Well, went to the chiropractor two days ago. He found some minor misalignment in where my ribs meet my spine, but no real biggie. In other words, no miracles were performed. :(
Based on what I told him, he thinks theres a good chance I have some scar tissue that the MRI didn't pick up. If thats the case, then theres not much I can do about it.

I did some research on scar tissue repair, which led me to the theraputic massage techniques "soft tissue release" and "myosequencing". I'm having trouble finding a practioner of these techniques in my area, but for those of you who have "tendonitis-like" conditions, you might want to look up practitoners of these techniques in your area. It looks to be very promising.

[RainerG9]

dirty-c:

Ive heard of soft tissue release before, but I cant find a practitioner in my area..Im currently also looking into trigger point therapy, I recently got a book which shows you how to perform self-massage on trigger points, and after one session it seems that all my elbow pain is gone..

Maybe you would like to look into trigger point therapy too. I was quite skeptical about this technique, after reading Stuart McRobert's Beyond Brawn, where he explains how he got rid of nagging injuries with this technique, but now Im beginning to believe that it does really work...


Trigger point therapy is based upon the following: overuse/strain of muscles can create trigger points in muscles, which are basically painful "knots" and these points cause almost always referred pain, so you might have a trigger point in the neck muscles which causes pain in your shoulders, which could be diagnosed as tendonitis for example..so treating your shoulder does no good, cause the root of the problem is not in the shoulder itself but in the neck muscles due to trigger points..


The book I got shows you where to find these trigger points based on where your pain is..and surprisingly I found quite a few trigger points in the areas which the book outlines as the causes of shoulder/elbow pain..

I dont know if this method could apply to you, but if you are interested, its worth getting any of the following books:

The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook:Your Self-treatment Guide for Pain Relief
Myotherapy: Bonnie Pruden's Guide
Pain Erasure (Bonnie Pruden)



thutch90: Maybe you could look into trigger point therapy too...Im not saying this method solves every kind of problem...but it does seem very promising. Stuart McRobert was gona have knee surgery due to severe chondromalacia patella (the man could not sit up and down from/to a chair without suffering knee pain) and with this method he got rid of the problem and avoided surgery...

[dirty-c]

My continued research has led me to another technique, which seems remarkably similar to soft tissue release (as far as I can tell). Its called Active Release Technique, usually refered to as ART. It is a combination of very specific patient movements and deep tissue massage. Like I said, as far as I can tell, its the same thing as soft tissue release. However, ART is a patented technique. Maybe the doctor is just trying to make himself some money by adding some slight variation to an already vastly used technique, so that he can obtain a patent. I dont know. Closest practioner is over 60 miles away. :(

Thanks for the advice about the trigger point therapy. If I understand correctly, you can perform these techniques yourself? Does the book suggest having a professional do it, if possible?

[RainerG9]

Ive heard of Active Release Technique before, and it does seem promising, but I got the same problem, cant find a practitioner, in fact there is no one in Cyprus specialised in ART...

Yes, you perform the techniques of trigger point therapy yourself, the book is all about teaching you how to do it..of course, it does suggest having a professional do it, if possible, but since you'll have to treat yourself everyday for a few weeks before the problem goes away, going to a professional may be too costly or impractical..

[dirty-c]

Well, did the trigger point therapy thing yesterday. It was also a combination of deep tissue massage. I almost couldn't move my arm afterwards, the massuse said she worked it really hard. She claims to have found a scar tissue about the size of a grape, and that it was deep and needed worked to the surface for easier manipulation (hence, the forceful deep tissue massage).

I also found a practioner of ART about an hour away. He said trigger point therapy might help, but that I shoud expect to do it 6-10 times before I notice a marked improvement. He stated quite bluntly that I would notice results after just 1 ART treatment. Maybe he's just being a good salesman, but it was one hell of an alluring salespitch........

Both people seem confident they can help me (the ART guy even more so). But, you gotta wonder how much of that is really understanding my condition and how much of it is just good salesmanship.

I asked the lady what she thought about the home trigger point therapy, and she agreed that it can work. She just suggested that its sometimes difficult to self-inflict the level of pain necessary to illict a healing response. She said I could rub the area forcefully in a circular motion (NOT length wise) between treatments, but I'm far too sore today for that.