PDA

View Full Version : Cutting Diet Questions



technogeeky
07-09-2003, 05:48 AM
Hey folks.. I dislike posting a bunch of times asking a bunch of single questions, so I waited and am going to put all of them in this thread. :)


1. Does this theory hold true: Say I somehow (not that I have any idea how to do this) find my maintnence level calories (let's say its 3000 cals). Then, I multiply that by 7 days. Then, I subtract out the (3500 calories * 3 for each lb to lose) for the week, and calculate what I should be eating. Why does or doesn't this work?

2. Since I'm on a heavy cutting diet it, would it be a good idea to have a different (nutrient or calorie wise) meal post-workout?

3. Is it a good idea to eat before workout? I get up at 5:00AM to weightlift M,W,F. I could get up earlier and eat breakfast or some sort of meal earlier. Any suggestions?

4. Right now I eat the same thing for breakfast each day (see FitDay link). It's .5 cup of oatmeal, 2 tbsp natty peanut butter, and 1/2 serving of whey protein. Would eggs substitute well or add to breakfast? I think variety will help me keep some sanity. I don't mind eating egg whites only or like 3 egg wites, 1 egg - I pretty much like the whites only anyway.


5. I keep hearing to cut the bread out. As such, I'm going to shy away from Subs and sandwiches for a while and see if it helps. But should I eat some amount of bread anyways?


6. Speaking of breads: IF it makes a difference and IF it will help, should I monitor when I eat each kind of nutrient? (eg, carbs in morning, protien at night.. etc)


7. I'm going to get some protien bars pretty soon. Any particular brand that would suit my needs best? I'm going to buy one of each kind that I should try and taste test them.


8. Is it a good idea to "refeed" or basically just eat a TON of food like... tomorrow.. to jumpstart my metabolism. I pretty much starve myself usually unless I'm dieting, so is it a good idea?



That's it for now. If you don't mind, number your responses to the question since some of them run together.


Stats: 307 or 308 lbs (ARGH! I'm not losing ANYTHING!)
Goal: 210 or 215 lbs
Daily calorie intake (OKed by Doctor) 2400 cals/day


I'm pretty much tired of working and not losing. Better come soon before I get angry.

Haha. "You won't like me when I'm angry" - The Hulk

GhettoSmurf
07-09-2003, 07:00 AM
1.- Ya kind of lost e on that one.

2.- I'd still have some protein and simple sugars in the form of a shake.

3.- Yes, ALWAYS eat before working out.

4.- Yes, that would be fine.

5.- It depends how strict you are. Whenever possible, I usually try to have either some oatmeal, sweeat potatoes, or brown rice instead of bread. But if there is no way around it, then I just have some bread.

6.- I just try to make sure I have some carbs in the morning, and (becuase of what I see on a lot of other sites, whether it makes a difference or not) a low or no carb meal before bed. Other then that, I'll have carbs whenever.

7.- I've heard good things about Detour and U-Turn bars. Personally, I'd just make sure you check the nutritional labels. Some are LOADED with sugar.

8.- Once you get to a lower BF% (I think like 15% or lower) then a PLANNED refeed could be befeicial. Otherwise I'd jsut try to tough it out.

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky

1. Does this theory hold true: Say I somehow (not that I have any idea how to do this) find my maintnence level calories (let's say its 3000 cals). Then, I multiply that by 7 days. Then, I subtract out the (3500 calories * 3 for each lb to lose) for the week, and calculate what I should be eating. Why does or doesn't this work?


Here's the idea:

Let's say somehow I determine that my maintnence calorie level is 3000. If I eat 3000 calories, then I'll weigh my same weight.

Then, let's say that 3500 calories equals one pound and I want to loose 3 lbs each week.

So, per week, I need 21,000 calories a week. Subtract from that my 3 lbs (3500 cals x 3 or 10500 calories).

That means I'd be eating 1500 calories a day.

1. That seems awafully low.

2. How the heck do I find out how many calories I'm burning doing pretty much nothing? Fitday says like 4000 calories which I don't believe.

Holto
07-09-2003, 09:45 AM
I don't believe fitday compensates for bf percentage

the original research that spawned basal metabolic rate used males with around 10% bf (which was average in 1930)

I would put in your weight as 200 and see what it gives you

to that I would add that a human is allmost never at base rate because mental/physical activity increases expenditure

Holto
07-09-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
Hey folks.. I dislike posting a bunch of times asking a bunch of single questions, so I waited and am going to put all of them in this thread. :)


1. Does this theory hold true: Say I somehow (not that I have any idea how to do this) find my maintnence level calories (let's say its 3000 cals). Then, I multiply that by 7 days. Then, I subtract out the (3500 calories * 3 for each lb to lose) for the week, and calculate what I should be eating. Why does or doesn't this work?

*** it's beyond theory IMO if you know your maintenance cal intake and track your cals accurately (weighing foods) you will lose bf according to plan

2. Since I'm on a heavy cutting diet it, would it be a good idea to have a different (nutrient or calorie wise) meal post-workout?

*** I use more cals post w/o when cutting but I cut on 3000-3500 cals

*** if you are aiming for really low cals try to find a minnimum amount of carbs with 20-40g's of protein

simple VS complex won't make a difference its all about cals

3. Is it a good idea to eat before workout? I get up at 5:00AM to weightlift M,W,F. I could get up earlier and eat breakfast or some sort of meal earlier. Any suggestions?

*** 20-40g's of protein

5. I keep hearing to cut the bread out. As such, I'm going to shy away from Subs and sandwiches for a while and see if it helps. But should I eat some amount of bread anyways?

*** bread can be very filling (whole grains especially)

6. Speaking of breads: IF it makes a difference and IF it will help, should I monitor when I eat each kind of nutrient? (eg, carbs in morning, protien at night.. etc)

*** it comes down to energy balance cals in vs cals out timing is not very important (as long as you get a good breakfast)

7. I'm going to get some protien bars pretty soon. Any particular brand that would suit my needs best? I'm going to buy one of each kind that I should try and taste test them.

8. Is it a good idea to "refeed" or basically just eat a TON of food like... tomorrow.. to jumpstart my metabolism. I pretty much starve myself usually unless I'm dieting, so is it a good idea?

Stats: 307 or 308 lbs (ARGH! I'm not losing ANYTHING!)

*** if your gaining muscle fat loss won't show on the scale



how long have you been lifting weights?

Relentless
07-09-2003, 10:00 AM
1. Does this theory hold true: Say I somehow (not that I have any idea how to do this) find my maintnence level calories (let's say its 3000 cals). Then, I multiply that by 7 days. Then, I subtract out the (3500 calories * 3 for each lb to lose) for the week, and calculate what I should be eating. Why does or doesn't this work?
****
Doesn't work because it doesn't allow for activity. Cardio, weightlifting, etc. all burn calories. I think pre-calculating is a waste of time for most people. I think a better approach is to test and re-evaluate. Eat 3000 calories a day for a couple weeks, observe your reaction, decrease or increase as appropriate. Observer and evaluate again. There is no magic number, no magic process. The best thing you can possibly do is treat your body like a science experiment.


2. Since I'm on a heavy cutting diet it, would it be a good idea to have a different (nutrient or calorie wise) meal post-workout?
****
After lifting, it is pretty much ALWAYS a good idea to have protein + carbs. If you're gonna have a protein shake, this is one of the best times to drink it.


3. Is it a good idea to eat before workout? I get up at 5:00AM to weightlift M,W,F. I could get up earlier and eat breakfast or some sort of meal earlier. Any suggestions?
****
Some studies seem to show that early-morning and pre-breakfast workouts can be catabolic. Of course, Arnold used to workout early early when he was in the army. However, your blood sugar levels will be pretty low after a night spent sleeping; this will affect how well you can lift. I would have some kind of breakfast.


4. Right now I eat the same thing for breakfast each day (see FitDay link). It's .5 cup of oatmeal, 2 tbsp natty peanut butter, and 1/2 serving of whey protein. Would eggs substitute well or add to breakfast? I think variety will help me keep some sanity. I don't mind eating egg whites only or like 3 egg wites, 1 egg - I pretty much like the whites only anyway.
****
Eggs are generally a Good Thing(tm). You can buy cartons of "Just Egg Whites" at most supermarkets.



5. I keep hearing to cut the bread out. As such, I'm going to shy away from Subs and sandwiches for a while and see if it helps. But should I eat some amount of bread anyways?
****
In my opinion, white flour-based products (bread, pasta, etc.) are a major part of the reason Americans are so fat. Breads tend to be high-GI, carb-o-rific and generally not optimal for you. You never need to eat bread. If you MUST eat breads, try to get whole grain or somesuch.



6. Speaking of breads: IF it makes a difference and IF it will help, should I monitor when I eat each kind of nutrient? (eg, carbs in morning, protien at night.. etc)
****
Not too sure on this one but I would attempt to have a mix of macronutrients throughout the day.



7. I'm going to get some protien bars pretty soon. Any particular brand that would suit my needs best? I'm going to buy one of each kind that I should try and taste test them.
****
I like the Atkins Advantage bars myself... some people will slam 'em because they have soy protein and stuff. But generally, bars are expensive for what you get. Protein powder is WAY cheaper. The only real purpose to a bar is something to eat when nothing else is possible/convienent, IMHO.


8. Is it a good idea to "refeed" or basically just eat a TON of food like... tomorrow.. to jumpstart my metabolism. I pretty much starve myself usually unless I'm dieting, so is it a good idea?
****
Personally, I think refeeds are totally overrated. Unless you're COMPLETELY in control of your diet and or are on a CKD and need to manage your leptin levels with refeeds, etc., then you're just kidding yourself with the idea of refeeds. I am a BIG fan of ketogenic dieting as I had very good success with it. But it may not be for you.

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Holto


how long have you been lifting weights?

Recently, only three or four weeks.

Last year I lifted for like 2 months.

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 10:15 AM
Another question:

Should I be taking things like my friend Khar is taking.. creatine, other sugars, whatever (he drinks a hefty after-workout shake) even though I'm cutting? Do the muscle-building benefits of such supplements outweigh the detriment to weight loss?

bradley
07-09-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
Another question:

Should I be taking things like my friend Khar is taking.. creatine, other sugars, whatever (he drinks a hefty after-workout shake) even though I'm cutting? Do the muscle-building benefits of such supplements outweigh the detriment to weight loss?

You should be taking in some type of post workout shake that contains carbs and protein. A post workout shake will help refill muscle glycogen which will help you get back into an anabolic state.

I would recommend making up a shake that contains ~75g of malto and ~35g of protein and drink 1/3 pre workout and the remaing 2/3 post workout. You can consume the preworkout shake ~30 minutes before training.

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 10:40 AM
And creatine?

Holto
07-09-2003, 10:42 AM
technogeeky:

I would make sure that while trying to cut you leave yourself enough cals and protien to gain muscle

the newbie gains you will get in the next 6 months will increase the amount of cals you burn at rest

creatine is great for recovery which will help build muscle

if you don't want to take tons of sugar with it no problem it will still work

a post w/o shake is both anabolic and anti-catabolic and as long as it dosen't increase daily cals too much you should be fine

bradley
07-09-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
1. Does this theory hold true: Say I somehow (not that I have any idea how to do this) find my maintnence level calories (let's say its 3000 cals). Then, I multiply that by 7 days. Then, I subtract out the (3500 calories * 3 for each lb to lose) for the week, and calculate what I should be eating. Why does or doesn't this work?

You would be better off doing what Callahan recommended. Just monitor your calorie intake each week and adjust cals according to the results that you are seeing.



2. Since I'm on a heavy cutting diet it, would it be a good idea to have a different (nutrient or calorie wise) meal post-workout?


See my post above:)



3. Is it a good idea to eat before workout? I get up at 5:00AM to weightlift M,W,F. I could get up earlier and eat breakfast or some sort of meal earlier. Any suggestions?


Eating a meal would be beneficial because working out on an empty stomach would be too catabolic IMO. A small meal consisting of protein and carbs would be ideal IMO.



4. Right now I eat the same thing for breakfast each day (see FitDay link). It's .5 cup of oatmeal, 2 tbsp natty peanut butter, and 1/2 serving of whey protein. Would eggs substitute well or add to breakfast? I think variety will help me keep some sanity. I don't mind eating egg whites only or like 3 egg wites, 1 egg - I pretty much like the whites only anyway.


Sure the eggs would be fine IMO. Just eat a couple of whole eggs along with some egg whites and your oatmeal. This will give you a meal that contains all the macronutrients.



5. I keep hearing to cut the bread out. As such, I'm going to shy away from Subs and sandwiches for a while and see if it helps. But should I eat some amount of bread anyways?


Well there are better sources of carbs IMO, but it really comes down to calorie balance assuming that you are taking in adequate amounts of protein and EFAs.



6. Speaking of breads: IF it makes a difference and IF it will help, should I monitor when I eat each kind of nutrient? (eg, carbs in morning, protien at night.. etc)

Not really, although a slow digesting protein like cottage cheese along with some fat would be ideal IMO. You could also throw in some fiber as well which would further slow digestion.



7. I'm going to get some protien bars pretty soon. Any particular brand that would suit my needs best? I'm going to buy one of each kind that I should try and taste test them.

I usually go with one of the Next Protein bars (Detour, One Way, U-Turn) or Nitro-Tech. Some contain more cals and sugar than the others, but if you are accounting for the calories they are fine IMO.



8. Is it a good idea to "refeed" or basically just eat a TON of food like... tomorrow.. to jumpstart my metabolism. I pretty much starve myself usually unless I'm dieting, so is it a good idea?


If you are sub 15% then it would be beneficial but otherwise no. Although a cheat meal every now and then can be beneficial psychologically.



Daily calorie intake (OKed by Doctor) 2400 cals/day


I know that I am no doctor but does he/she know what your current goals are? That seem awfully low IMO.

bradley
07-09-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
And creatine?

If you want to give it a shot then go for it:) You will gain some water weight so it should be expected if you hop on the scale.

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 10:53 AM
My doctor knows what my goals are - she thinks (and I am starting to think this as well) that my goal of 210/215 is too low.

She's primarily concerned with me getting under 250, which is 30 BMI.

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by bradley


If you want to give it a shot then go for it:) You will gain some water weight so it should be expected if you hop on the scale.

Well, either I'm not losing weight or scales hate me. I seem to be gaining but everything otherwise would indicate that I am losing.



Are there any tell-tale signs that your body metabolism has shut down?

bradley
07-09-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
My doctor knows what my goals are - she thinks (and I am starting to think this as well) that my goal of 210/215 is too low.

She's primarily concerned with me getting under 250, which is 30 BMI.

I do not think that a goal of 210/215 is too low, but you have to expect it to take a while. Maybe make some more short term goals and let 210-215 be one of your long term goals.

A few years back I lost a lot of weight, but I went about it the wrong way and lost muscle as well.


Well, either I'm not losing weight or scales hate me. I seem to be gaining but everything otherwise would indicate that I am losing.

Are you seeing results in the mirror, or are you clothes fitting a little looser? Both of these are good ways to judge progress, and the scale is not something that should be relied on. Since you are new to training you could very well be losing bf while gaining some muscle.




Are there any tell-tale signs that your body metabolism has shut down?

Well one good indicator is that progress (weight loss) will stall and you will probably feel fatigued overall.

Although this is less likely to happen in people with higher bf%, hence the reason that refeeds are not recommended. I do not think your metabolism has slowed from the comments that you made above.



"I seem to be gaining but everything otherwise would indicate that I am losing."

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 12:06 PM
How do I find out what a person who is 6'5 should weigh when they are buffed? Everything is for "average" people - I don't want to be near "average" :)

bradley
07-09-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by technogeeky
How do I find out what a person who is 6'5 should weigh when they are buffed? Everything is for "average" people - I don't want to be near "average" :)

I am not for sure, but I know what applies to one 6'5 individual will not apply to another. You have to take into account if the person has a large frame, how their weight is distributed, etc.

Maybe focusing on a specific bf% would be better than focusing on what you "think you should weigh buffed." Although you are the one setting the goals:)

technogeeky
07-09-2003, 01:48 PM
I don't know what BF I am at now.

I bet it's high.

HEY! I need someone to reccomend some calipers and maybe even a place to buy them. Any suggestions?