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View Full Version : How harmful is beer/alcohol to a CKD diet?



dirty-c
07-09-2003, 07:38 PM
I was wondering if anyone has an opinion on how much alcohol interferes with the CKD. I know that when alcohol is present in your system, you will remain in ketosis, but use ketones from the alcohol rather than bodyfat or dietary fat. I also know that when its time to carb up, you want to maximize the uptake of glucose into muscle glycogen.

I was wondering if anyone knew any facts about how alcohol affect the process of creating muscle glycogen. The only time I drink is during the weekends (during which I would be doing the carb up). I guess I can consider quitting drinking, but I'm a college student. My social scene revolves around alcohol. I'm not a drunk or anything, and I only drink on weekends, and not even always.

Anyways, just seeing if anyone knows anything....?

bradley
07-10-2003, 03:12 AM
THE EFFECT OF ALCOHOL INTAKE ON MUSCLE GLYCOGEN STORAGE FOLLOWING PROLONGED EXERCISE.

Burke LM, Collier GR, Broad EM, Davis PG, Martin DT, Sanigorski AJ, Hargreaves M.

Sports Sciences Sports Medicine, Australian Institute of Sport, Belconnen, ACT, Australia; School of Health Sciences, Deakin University, Burwood, Victoria, Australia.

We studied the effects of alcohol intake on post-exercise muscle glycogen restoration with samples from vastus lateralis being collected immediately after glycogen-depleting cycling and following a set recovery period. Nine well-trained cyclists undertook a study of 8-h recovery (2 meals), while another 6 cyclists undertook a separate 24-h protocol (4 meals). In each study subjects completed 3 trials in cross-over order; control [C] diet (meals providing carbohydrate [CHO] of 1.75 g/kg); alcohol displacement [A] diet (1.5 g/kg alcohol displacing CHO energy from C) and Alcohol + CHO [AC] diet [C + 1.5 g/kg alcohol]. Alcohol intake reduced post-meal glycemia especially in A trial and 24-h study, although insulin responses were maintained. Alcohol intake increased serum triglycerides, particularly in 24-h study and AC trial. Glycogen storage was decreased in A diets compared to Control at 8-h [24.4 +/- 7 vs 44.6 +/- 6 mmol/kg ww, mean +/- SEM, P < 0.05] and 24-h [68 +/- 5 vs. 82 +/- 5 mmol/kg ww, P < 0.05]. There was a trend to reduced glycogen storage with AC in 8-h [36.2 +/- 8 mmol/kg ww, p = 0.1] but no difference in 24-h [85 +/- 9 mmol/kg ww]. We conclude (1) the direct effect of alcohol on post-exercise glycogen synthesis is unclear and (2) the main effect of alcohol intake is indirect, by displacing CHO intake from optimal recovery nutrition practices.

bradley
07-10-2003, 03:28 AM
When you consume alcohol it will be used as the primary energy source before other macronutrients, so this could lead to fat gain when carbing up.

I would try to get in most of my carbs for the day before going out for the evening, which should help minimize the negative aspects of alcohol consumption on weight gain. I think we can both agree that you would be better off without the alcohol, but then again I don't think it is going to be that detrimental in your progress, assuming you keep it within reason.

dirty-c
07-10-2003, 07:01 AM
What do you suppose happens if you drink during the ketogenic phase, and the level of carbs exceeds that which allows you to stay in ketosis? For example, if you drank 12 beers at 5 grams of carbs each, that would normally be enough carbohydrate to kick you out of ketosis. But, as long as you have alcohol in your system, it appears certain that you will remain in ketosis anyway. What would happen to those carbs? Stored as bodyfat?

Thanks for the responses Bradely, especially the scientific study. Its always good to see people who back up their statemens with controlled experiments rather than blind faith or assumption.

Erbas
07-10-2003, 07:51 AM
I think the biggest issue, at least for me, is that alcohol reduces your self discipline. I know when drinking in the evenings I am more likely to eat something that totally blows my diet.....for me in college it was TACO BELL at 2 AM!

bradley
07-10-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by dirty-c
What do you suppose happens if you drink during the ketogenic phase, and the level of carbs exceeds that which allows you to stay in ketosis? For example, if you drank 12 beers at 5 grams of carbs each, that would normally be enough carbohydrate to kick you out of ketosis. But, as long as you have alcohol in your system, it appears certain that you will remain in ketosis anyway. What would happen to those carbs? Stored as bodyfat?

The amount of carbs in the beer would still be enough to kick you out of ketosis even though your body would not be using the carbs for energy. Like I stated above the alcohol will be utilized for energy first before anything else, so the carbs will more than likely be stored.

Although if you were to consume just hard liquor, it would just deepen the ketogenic state. Hence the reason binge drinking for a long period of time could result in alcholic ketoacidosis.

dirty-c
07-10-2003, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by bradley
The amount of carbs in the beer would still be enough to kick you out of ketosis even though your body would not be using the carbs for energy.

So, if at some given instant, your body wasn't using the carbs for energy, and also was NOT in ketosis (hence, not using producing ketones) what WOULD your body be using for energy? Would there still be some ketones floating around, so your body would use those?


Originally posted by bradley
Like I stated above the alcohol will be utilized for energy first before anything else, so the carbs will more than likely be stored.

If I understand ketosis correctly, alcohol itself can't be used for energy. It must be metabolized into ketones and then the ketones can be used for energy. Is this what you mean by "the alcohol will be used before anything else".

Sorry to nit pick, but this concept is new to me. I just want to make sure I have all the particulars correct before I start speaking/writing in short hand. Thanks.

bradley
07-10-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by dirty-c


So, if at some given instant, your body wasn't using the carbs for energy, and also was NOT in ketosis (hence, not using producing ketones) what WOULD your body be using for energy? Would there still be some ketones floating around, so your body would use those?


Well even though your body is not using the carbs for energy the body would secrete insulin in response to the carbs entering the blood stream. The body would still be using alcohol as the preferred energy source.



If I understand ketosis correctly, alcohol itself can't be used for energy. It must be metabolized into ketones and then the ketones can be used for energy. Is this what you mean by "the alcohol will be used before anything else".

Well alcohol will be metabolized by the liver, and you end up with acetate which is a short chain fatty acid. This will then enter the blood stream and be used by the cells for ATP production. Their is more to it than that but that gives you the end result:)

Berserker
07-10-2003, 04:49 PM
I Erabs, the food you eat when drinking is probably worse then the alcohol itself. You need to be strict, but its so easy to eat crap when drinking
For the last month I have reduced my drinking. I haven't noticed any difference. Though a month isn't long and there are lots of variables. I am sure I am doing better not drinking.
Also it depends how active you are. You can drink like a fish and if hyou burn it off you will look good.

Fenbay
07-11-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by bradley


Although if you were to consume just hard liquor, it would just deepen the ketogenic state. Hence the reason binge drinking for a long period of time could result in alcholic ketoacidosis.


Well now ... I think I know what I will drink if I wish to take the edge off the day during a keto diet!