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ElPietro
08-23-2001, 08:21 AM
Hey peeps...I'm finally gearing up to go to a much healthier style of eating. I will try to keep fast food out of my diet or at least limit it to once or twice in a week. There are further obstacles and if you could suggest how to overcome these that would be great.

First of all I don't cook. Well I don't cook a variety of food to create a meal. I'll just make one thing and eat more of it. I basically cook from a microwave most of the time. I also won't cook if it takes more than 5-10 minutes to make. To overcome this I am pretty sure i'm going to go grab me a george foreman grill as I've heard so many good things about them.

Second of all I'm as I believe Craig put it...a meatatarian. I love meat, chicken, steak...mmmm....but even more than that i'm an anti-vegitarian. I always try to corrupt them wherever I find them. I detest 90% of most veggies out there. The ones I can stomach are: peas, corn, raw carrots (preferably with dip), lettuce, and celery, onions, potatoes. That's pretty much it from what I can think of at the moment. Basically if you could tell me if any of these types of veggies are good choices so I can focus in on the better ones. Or suggest alternatives.

Also, I'm horrible at eating breakfast...usually I'll reset my alarm continuously until I have just enough time to go through my morning routine and head to work. I'm planning on maybe purchasing a meal replacement to use in the mornings as breakfast since I should be able to throw it into a blender before I leave.

Another question I have is that I see when ppl post their diets it's one day only...does this mean that you typically eat the same thing day in day out? Or do you change it up a bit from day to day?

Tuna I've had a problem with but I'm trying to find a way to stomach it. If not I will replace with more chicken or turkey I guess.

I'm currently approximately 250lbs @5'11 big endomorphic build, large bone-structure, etc. I would ideally like to get down to about 220-225. I plan on sticking to a push/pull split for now as I'm too busy to hit the gym more than 2 or 3 times a week. Cardio comes somewhat from martial arts twice a week for about 1-2 hours each time. I think one of the things that is hurting me is the amount of juice, or simulated juice I drink. I will be looking for alternatives, as well as drinking a lot of water.

Basically any info that you can offer me to help me along the way or provide diet suggestions I'd greatly appreciate and sign a no-flame clause with you for all future posts. ;)

This is the only thing holding me back from becoming someone that scares small children and have lesser mortals jump out of my way when I walk along the street. :cool:

Thanks for anything you have to offer.

Cackerot69
08-23-2001, 08:32 AM
"First of all I don't cook. Well I don't cook a variety of food to create a meal. I'll just make one thing and eat more of it. I basically cook from a microwave most of the time. I also won't cook if it takes more than 5-10 minutes to make. To overcome this I am pretty sure i'm going to go grab me a george foreman grill as I've heard so many good things about them."

Me either. What I do is buy a ton of of a food, cook enough for 3-5 days or so and that'll be that. Throw it all in a frying pan, check it every few minutes and when it's done take it out.

"Second of all I'm as I believe Craig put it...a meatatarian. I love meat, chicken, steak...mmmm....but even more than that i'm an anti-vegitarian. I always try to corrupt them wherever I find them. I detest 90% of most veggies out there. The ones I can stomach are: peas, corn, raw carrots (preferably with dip), lettuce, and celery, onions, potatoes. That's pretty much it from what I can think of at the moment. Basically if you could tell me if any of these types of veggies are good choices so I can focus in on the better ones. Or suggest alternatives."

Veggies aren't essential, I hate them too so guess what I do? Not eat them. Just supplement with some extra vitamin A, multivitamin, etc and you'll be fine. Meat = ace, so eat it...

"Also, I'm horrible at eating breakfast...usually I'll reset my alarm continuously until I have just enough time to go through my morning routine and head to work. I'm planning on maybe purchasing a meal replacement to use in the mornings as breakfast since I should be able to throw it into a blender before I leave."

LOL, well that's your problem, don't do it! I always used to do this too....then I stopped and all was good. The MRP is a good idea regardless.

"Another question I have is that I see when ppl post their diets it's one day only...does this mean that you typically eat the same thing day in day out? Or do you change it up a bit from day to day?"

Pretty much. Eventually you just know what's in all of your usual foods and can make a meal knowing the exact macronutrient, calorie totals etc...

"Tuna I've had a problem with but I'm trying to find a way to stomach it. If not I will replace with more chicken or turkey I guess."

That's ok. Tuna is good because it's conveneint...that's about it.

"I'm currently approximately 250lbs @5'11 big endomorphic build, large bone-structure, etc. I would ideally like to get down to about 220-225. I plan on sticking to a push/pull split for now as I'm too busy to hit the gym more than 2 or 3 times a week. Cardio comes somewhat from martial arts twice a week for about 1-2 hours each time. I think one of the things that is hurting me is the amount of juice, or simulated juice I drink. I will be looking for alternatives, as well as drinking a lot of water."

Diet coke, diet pepsi, or any other artificially sweetened snack.

"Basically any info that you can offer me to help me along the way or provide diet suggestions I'd greatly appreciate and sign a no-flame clause with you for all future posts."

Shiat, I was just gonna throw in a flame, too :)

breeze
08-23-2001, 08:42 AM
It's simple, learn to cook and cook healty balanced meals. Cut out the juices and junk food. eat all veggies. Cut down on the sodium intake. It worked for me.

IceRgrrl
08-23-2001, 09:20 AM
The George Foreman grill is a big hit with a lot of my friends who don't like to cook. Sounds like you have the meat taken care of.

Eat the veggies that you like and maybe try some new one once in awhile. I've found that a lot of it depends on how it's prepared. I used to loathe aspargus until someone made it for me properly and it wasn't all mushy!

If you like lettuce, make a huge bowl of salad at the beginning of the week and just scoop out some for each meal. Olive oil (good fats) and vinegar make a good dressing.

I used to be a non-breakfast person too, but now I either have a MRP shake or a grain bagel with peanut butter on it (I can eat this with one hand and drive to work with the other). Cottage cheese also is easy protein at any time.

Yeah, it's work to plan and cook good food, but it's SO worth it...

Good luck!

Big Show
08-23-2001, 09:50 AM
"First of all I don't cook. Well I don't cook a variety of food to create a meal. I'll just make one thing and eat more of it. I basically cook from a microwave most of the time. I also won't cook if it takes more than 5-10 minutes to make"

The solution is simple cook mainly pasta, rice or potatoes for a carb source. Once you get the water boiling pasta and potatoes take about 15-20 min to cook and rice takes a bit longer but all you do once you put rice in boiling water than once the water starts boiling again you simply lower the heat and cover the pot and wait about 30-45 min. For your problem with tuna do what I do I mix a can of tuna with some pasta and use alfredo sauce on the mixture it tastes good. And finally for your problem with juice drink water or milk, I haven't drank juice or soda for a few months I only use juice crystals for an insulin boost in my post workout shake. I hope this helps

ElPietro
08-24-2001, 07:50 AM
So if the goal is to cut fat what is the best morning macro breakdown, and the best late night breakdown?

Should I consume a large portion of carbs when I wake up? If so low or high GI? Or should I minimize carbs in the morning? Not sure if it's better to be glycogen deficient or not. I'm assuming that no carbs later in the evening is the best bet. Or should I not eat a few hours before bedtime? Lemme know.

Thanks for the responses so far.

Cackerot69
08-24-2001, 08:08 AM
You could try alternating carb/protein meals with protein/fat meals although I can't recommend it because I haven't tried it yet.

But, some carbs when you wake is a good thing (here's your chance to eat some fructose, too!), and also some carbs before bed (another chance to eat some fructose!). At least 25g in both, and depedning on your metabolism you can go higher.

ElPietro
08-24-2001, 01:22 PM
Okay I forgot my wallet at home today so when I went to the store I couldn't buy my george foreman grill. I've been slowly working on putting together a diet plan. I'll list and you biatches can pick it apart and then i'll reform it a few more times.

Basically I'll be eating simple shiat to make with the grill or I might buy a steamer too and use it too cook rice with.

From what I've browsed through supp stores Labrada Lean body seems like a good start for a meal replacement. I'm debating on whether or not I should get low carb as this will be consumed in the morning.

So far I've gotten to lunch, dinner usually is made when I get home so I have a bit of input into what is made but not always the case.

Breakfast: Labrada Leanbody shake

Snack1: 1 Apple, and 6-8 sticks of celery

Lunch: 2 chicken breasts, cottage cheese

Evening snack I'll have to figure out. Maybe some whole grain rice, but I'll need a buncha options to keep me interested and away from other less desirable options. Also I'll probably make a protein shake an hour or so before bed with a piece of fruit maybe.

Another question I had as I've totally lost my memory on this one. As someone who is cutting do I want to induce insuline spikes in post-workout? I won't be taking creatine, just some protein powder and mebbe some glutamine in water. I generally use designer whey but I'm out so need to buy a new supply.

Unfortunately the above diet so far adds up to only about 750 calories and I'm about 250 lbs. Macros are 113g of protein, 57g carbs, and only 6 grams of fat. So if I factor in about 500 cals for dinner and another 200 or so in the evening I'm obviously way short. Although I haven't included drinks into the equation yet. I will have a prob getting off juice (I mean fruit juice :rolleyes: ) but maybe if I grab some extra pulp orange juice that'll be okay with my evening snack. Or maybe at some 2% milk to get more fat and calories into the equation. I have flax gelcaps which are 1000mg which probably won't make a diff since taking them twice a day will only give me an extra 2 grams of fat.

I'm being pretty picky because I know if I hate what I eat or make things too inconvenient I won't stick with it. I'm thinking that around 3200 cals/day should allow me to drop weight at my size. I can always cut things out or add more. I know there used to be tons of other ppls diets floating around but I can't find all that many anymore, even on mm.com.

So once again I depend on the collective wisdom of this board. And if you don't help out I will track you down and beat you. :D

Tryska
08-24-2001, 01:28 PM
less fruit, more vegetables, add some healthy fats, and use full fat dairy.

ElPietro
08-24-2001, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Tryska
less fruit, more vegetables, add some healthy fats, and use full fat dairy.

I only have one piece of fruit in there!!! Man I hate veggies...why can't they just make some brick of sludge called "eat this it's healthy" and it would contain everything I need, and then they could artificially flavour it to taste like taco bell. Mmmmm tacos....bah see what happens to me!!! Maybe once hockey season starts It'll help...nothing like good cardio while breaking other peoples bones to keep me happy and in shape. :cool:

So you think spreading some natty peanut butter on muh celery would help? I haven't actually tried it but I believe we had that argument way back about pb and ketchup being good with virtually everything. :p

Tryska
08-24-2001, 01:45 PM
that we did..and if you read carefully.....you were thinking about adding more fruit before bed for a snack, and orange juice is also considered a fruit.

natty pb on celery is a brilliant idea. i tried it with almond butter the other day.

one thing to keep in mind.....fat in your diet, actually helps you lose fat, so don't be scared of it, as long as you are staying within your calorie limits.

the best way i've found to get my veggies in is getting those cut up salad bags (2 different kinds) and then mixing up greens and adding like cherry tomatoes and baby carrots, and cucumber and peppers and what not. Top it with some egg or tuna, some cheese and some olive oil dressing, maybe a couple croutons, and you get all your veggies (and a good variety of them) all in one shot.

ElPietro
08-24-2001, 01:53 PM
Yeah I'm not afraid of fat just that's what the macros came out to so far. Salad is ok only I usually only have lettuce in my salad. I guess I can add celery, mebbe a bit of french onion and croutons...but I don't really like tomatoes much. Maybe I'll add salad to the lunch portion since it's under 400 cals still.

I think my biggest problem is finding an alternative drink instead of juice. Cack says diet pop, others say it's really bad, so I'm hesitant in that respect, also it doesn't taste all that great anyway. I can deal with water most of the time but I will not stick to drinking close to 100% water all day. I usually only drink 1-3 cans of pop in a week at most anyways, but all the sugar in the juice is just as bad.

Oh one last thing...does anyone know the nutritional value of mushrooms?

Maki Riddington
08-24-2001, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
[b]"Veggies aren't essential, I hate them too so guess what I do? Not eat them. Just supplement with some extra vitamin A, multivitamin, etc and you'll be fine.



*** What kind of propoganda is that? Veggies aren't essential.

Tryska
08-24-2001, 02:03 PM
hmm...how about those unsweetened flavored seltzer waters to start? (like canada dry).....i really think that weaning a sweet tooth off is your best bet, but perhaps, even homemade lemonade or something? (not too much sugar though) or maybe iced green tea? that will help with fat burning as well...according to one of cack's studies anyway.

The_Chicken_Daddy
08-24-2001, 02:08 PM
i'm with maki here.

veggies = fibre.

You'll bung up quickley without them.

Fruit also = ace.

Wizard
08-24-2001, 03:13 PM
yes,veggies=fibre and not only fibre but also vitamins,antioxidants etc.
Wtf I don't know anyone who claims veggies are not essential!

Hey Tryska,why full fat dairy?

Also,green tea does nothing for fat loss.
The polyphenols it contains are excellent for your health though.

IceRgrrl
08-24-2001, 03:47 PM
I LOVE those unsweetened seltzer waters...usually cheap too. Unsweetened iced tea is good too if you don't mind caffeine. Lipton Cold Brew in pitcher-sized tea bags will turn a pitcher of water into awesome iced tea in about 10 minutes...I've been drinking it by the gallon this summer.

As for the other stuff, peanut butter on just about everything is good. For convenience, you can get a bag of wheat or other grain bagels or bread for morning.

Even if you only cook one day a week, you can just make a HUGE batch of whatever and eat it all week long. If you buy a family/bargain pack of chicken breasts, just cook/grill them all and stick 'em in the fridge for the week. If you cook rice, make a shiteload and then it's ready for whenever you want to eat. Yogurt is convenient and a good source of dairy protein and fat if you buy the full fat version.

ElPietro
08-24-2001, 04:23 PM
Thanks guys and gals...yer all giving me good ideas. Keep em coming if you have any other examples. This could be a good thread for all of us super male meatatarian endomorphs who hate eating green things but need to cut up. :D

flake
08-24-2001, 04:51 PM
yeah I hate veggies too, damn stupidly coloured things

completely unrelated can I put your sig onto a t-shirt :)

ElPietro
08-24-2001, 05:56 PM
Haha...another guy pm'ed me saying he liked my signature. I told him I was driving home from work and it popped into my head. Since I haven't copywrited it to make my millions sure I guess....why not. :D

Mef
08-24-2001, 06:58 PM
Seeing as I was the one who first said I liked it, and hence got the ball rolling, I think I deserve a cut of it

Tryska
08-24-2001, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Blackalpha
yes,veggies=fibre and not only fibre but also vitamins,antioxidants etc.
Wtf I don't know anyone who claims veggies are not essential!

Hey Tryska,why full fat dairy?

Also,green tea does nothing for fat loss.
The polyphenols it contains are excellent for your health though.

hee hee....you and i are on the same page regarding the green tea..i'm all about the polyphenols myself..*lol*

as for full-fat dairy - a. it will help him get the cals he needs. b. dietary fat aids in lipolysis. c. more protein, less carbs. d. he's also mentioned an issue with cravings - the fat will keep him satiated for longer, makingit easier to not fall off the wagon.

ElPietro
08-28-2001, 03:00 PM
How come on that site cyberdiet it lists flaxseed oil as 1217 calories or 145 grams with 10 grams of saturated for one tablespoon? Isn't that way wrong? I thought one tablespoon might be 10-20 grams but no more than that. Is this right? or are the numbers way off?

Oh just thought I'd edit this...I saw Canola oil listed as 14 grams for a tablespoon...maybe it was a typo for flax and then all the calculations were messed up.

Tryska
08-28-2001, 04:35 PM
That is definitely a possibility...cyberdiet's numbers can be screwy from time to time..depends on what you select as well....

the stats on my flax for 1tbsp is

110cal; total fat 11g, sat fat 1g.

IceRgrrl
08-28-2001, 06:28 PM
Try www.fitday.com. I use this site off and on to check myself. The carb/pro/fat breakdown and pie chart is nice too...

The nutrition database seems more accurate than some I've seen as well.

degsta
08-28-2001, 07:37 PM
Tryska said
as for full-fat dairy - a. it will help him get the cals he needs. b. dietary fat aids in lipolysis

Animal fats aren't useful like EFA's would be when we're talking about lipolysis. EFA's are a better choice, screw full fat dairy.

Cackerot69
08-28-2001, 07:40 PM
I never said veggies are bad, just not essential. You have all been brainwashed by the veggie distributors, haha.

Maki Riddington
08-28-2001, 07:46 PM
I never said anything about you saying they were bad.
As far as not being essential that is a opinion that holds no weight.

Cackerot69
08-28-2001, 08:07 PM
WTF Maki? you been on drugs? Too much alcohol? Explain to me how veggies are essential.

Maki Riddington
08-28-2001, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
WTF Maki? you been on drugs? Too much alcohol? Explain to me how veggies are essential.


*** Since you made the statement, enlighten me as to why one would not need vegtables in their diet at all.

No need to pull science on this one..........

Cackerot69
08-28-2001, 08:41 PM
Don't deflect the question.

Maki Riddington
08-28-2001, 08:45 PM
Cackerot I do recall you made the broad statement that veggies are not essential.
Now I'm calling you on it you.
Instead of answering, you simply deflected it to me.

So.... why are veggies nonessential?
Please be clear and concise.
Thank you.

Cackerot69
08-28-2001, 08:57 PM
They are not essential because...

a. you can live without them.

b. through supplementation you can get anything that is in veggies.

c. you can build muscle and lose fat without them.

d. you can be quite healthy without them.

e. anything in veggies can be found in other foods (albiet not in the same amounts).

f. if they were essential, god would have made them not taste so damn nasty.

And so on....

syntekz
08-28-2001, 08:58 PM
You both seem pretty damn smart (Maki and Cack).

But; I'm gonna go with Maki here. Cack nearly all of your responses to peoples questions are hollow. People, like myself, come here to get answers and explanations.

If they wanted yes/no type answers they could just ask a magic 8 ball and not waste their times here. You've got all that knowledge why not enlighten everyone else with it more often?

My 2 cents.

Cackerot69
08-28-2001, 09:00 PM
Hit refresh ;)

Cackerot69
08-28-2001, 10:58 PM
I see you posted this on supertraining, Maki.

No complaints :)

Tryska
08-29-2001, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by degsta
Tryska said

Animal fats aren't useful like EFA's would be when we're talking about lipolysis. EFA's are a better choice, screw full fat dairy.

i'm sorry....what's the difference? both require lipase to be broken down no? plus, animal fats actually help with hormone production, brain function (arachidonic acid makes up about 30% of our brains), and cell lipid bi-layer repair. Granted i'm not talking about making the majority of your diet sat fats, but still....as well, full fat dairy cotains less carbs, more protein then it's lower-fat cousins.

Wizard
08-29-2001, 06:55 AM
The truth is that lots of veggies are not good for you.
Eat veggies small amounts,just to get some fiber,which is not as good as soluble but anyway...

Maki Riddington
08-29-2001, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Blackalpha
The truth is that lots of veggies are not good for you.



*** Enlighten us with the "truth" then Blackalpha.

Sun
08-29-2001, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
f. if they were essential, god would have made them not taste so damn nasty.

And so on....

Hypocrite.

Anyway, I'm interested to know why too many vegetables are bad for you. Other than the fact if you eat too many your whites will be rust colored... if you know what I mean? ;)

Maki Riddington
08-29-2001, 10:42 AM
I must say that overnight I got a lot of interesting replies via email Cackerot.


Originally posted by Cackerot69

They are not essential because...

a. you can live without them.

*** No proof. That is a blanket statement. I suppose over the hundreds, thousands, even maybe millions of years we have roamed this planet that we soley survived on meat?


b. through supplementation you can get anything that is in veggies.

*** You of all people should surley know what supplements do. They compliment ones eating regimin. No supplement can or will ever replace what food can do for the body.

c. you can build muscle and lose fat without them.

*** Is it not safe to say that a weight trainers goal is to build up a healthy, strong and properly fine tuned body? Just because one may be able to lose fat and gain muscle without the aid of vegetables does not mean he/she has done their best as far as reaching their goals. A elite athlete. BB, etc will always benifit from adding some vegetables to their diet.

d. you can be quite healthy without them.

*** I would like to see a study that has proclaimed this new and promising news that humans can now live long lives without fear of illness or lack of without vegetables.

e. anything in veggies can be found in other foods (albiet not in the same amounts).

*** You said it yourself, not in the same amounts or in the ratios that may be have put in place for a reason.
These foods you talk about are few.


f. if they were essential, god would have made them not taste so damn nasty.


*** This sums up your original statement. It is one that is biased.
Therefore I can see now that it is from your own personal experience you claim that they are not essential. Therefore as I said before it is only a opinion and not one that can be proved.

It's one thing to state opinion it's another to try to pass it as truth. Especially this.

And so on....

Wizard
08-29-2001, 10:50 AM
Well Cack is right on a. you can live without them.
Nowadays you can take your supp and don't care if you ate your veggies.

Back to the good ole days,they had to eat veggies(and fruits) as they were the only thing available to provide them with some vits,minerals,trace elements etc...

Then Maki,in moderation they're good,but I don't wanna mess with elevated estrogen levels in my body,right?

Tryska
08-29-2001, 10:53 AM
but y'all keep forgetting....supplementing with active constituents are not as effective, and may actually do more harm, then eating the whole food.

Maki Riddington
08-29-2001, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Blackalpha
Well Cack is right on a. you can live without them.
Nowadays you can take your supp and don't care if you ate your veggies.



*** Here's a idea. Try getting somone to live on vitamins for their entire life and get back to me on how long the lived, how they faired against sickness and injury.

Blackalpha said,
but I don't wanna mess with elevated estrogen levels in my body,right?

*** Are you implying that vegetables in a diet are a cause for elevated estrogen levels?
I would like to see you list multiple studies that can back this up.
I'd also like to see who they were done on.

Tryska
08-29-2001, 11:02 AM
and what vegetables specifically would be cool too.

Wizard
08-29-2001, 11:04 AM
Tryska,I agree with you.I don't support that you should avoid eating veggies.In moderation,which means ~3 servings per day.
They do not harm you of course.

Instead,a single tomato,contains hundreds of
phytochemicals like the antioxidant lycopene, linked to reduced prostate and other cancers. Berries are high in fiber and ellagic acid,another cell-protective substance. Carrots are full of beta carotene;spinach has that antioxidant plus vitamin C and folic acid.Cherries have quercetin, another potent antioxidant. Grapes are rich in flavonoids that seem to fight heart disease as well as cancer.

So,they're good an essential for a good health but I doubt that the process via the're produced is so natty(drug enhancements)
:rolleyes:

Tryska
08-29-2001, 11:09 AM
agreed black...see you got me all confused cuz i thought we saw eye to eye on the anti-oxidants...*lol*

anyways.....this is why buying organic produce is key....granted we don't get the same mineral levels that we might have years ago..but at least you know (barring cross-pollination) that the produce is as close to natural as possible.

ElPietro
08-29-2001, 11:51 AM
Oh no...my thread has gone to hell! :(

Tryska
08-29-2001, 11:53 AM
i just wanna say.....



IT WAS NOT MY FAULT!


(this time)

Cackerot69
08-29-2001, 11:54 AM
*points at Maki*

Wizard
08-29-2001, 12:41 PM
Maki,the added drugs produce elevate estrogen levels.If you follow Tryska's advice (buy organic products) you won't face these problems.Sorry,I was not clear. :cry:

degsta
08-30-2001, 11:47 PM
Tryska- what I'm getting at is that saturated and animal fats are just passive molecules used for energy. Whereas, EFA's are active in metabolic and hormonal functions.

Your choice: 9 quality fat calories per gram from EFA's while using lowfat dairy with a few measly carbs -or- 9 inferior fat calories per gram from full fat dairy with known health degrading side effects and no additional benefits.




plus, animal fats actually help with hormone production, brain function (arachidonic acid makes up about 30% of our brains), and cell lipid bi-layer repair.

**The body can do without saturated fats(which are prevalent in full fat dairy). These functions you described are actually those of EFA's. Your body can perform everything it needs to with EFA's vs. saturated and animal fat.

Tryska
08-31-2001, 05:45 AM
mmmm...i still disagree degsta, both that saturated fats are unneccessary and that EFA's can take their place. As far as the carb issue goes, i guess it depends on what ype of diet you are one and how important carb ratios really are.

i would argue further, but i'm not in an arguing mood today..*lol*