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View Full Version : is it ok to eat after a workout?



Stabber
07-15-2003, 11:22 AM
Like directly after? I ate about a half hour before I lifted today (half a tuna sandwich). When I was done lifting, about 45min later..I was STARVING. So I ate a 1/8th of my brothers cheesesteak (half of the half for the non-math people here :D )

I then followed it with my post workout shake :eek:

One time thing I know, but the reason I asked was because sometimes I'm really hungry after lifting and would rather eat real food, then swallow liquid protein

Fenbay
07-15-2003, 11:26 AM
Of course it's ok. You're still going to absorb the PWO shake, and now you have more nutrients to absorb over a longer period of time to boot. Now, cheesesteak might not be the best choice, but hey it's protein, and chances are the bread is pretty high on the glycemic index so maybe it's not so bad after all heh.

Ironman8
07-15-2003, 11:55 AM
There's nothing wrong with that. I guess it depends on how people feel.

raniali
07-15-2003, 12:08 PM
it doesnt sound like he had a PWO shake though. you should minimize fat in both the PWO and the meal following that to take utmost advantage of the window after training. cheesesteak is not the best post w/o meal.

additionally - for the non-math people - half of a half is only 1/4.
half of a half of a half is 1/8.

Y2A
07-15-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by raniali
additionally - for the non-math people - half of a half is only 1/4. half of a half of a half is 1/8.

:withstupi

You jackass :D (Stabber is the jackass, not ali) ;)

Stabber
07-15-2003, 12:24 PM
:scratch: woops

Stabber
07-15-2003, 12:27 PM
on 3rd thought, I was right. It was an 1/8th. I took a 1/4 off the half. My brother ate the other half.

So I'm right :)

raniali
07-15-2003, 12:42 PM
so who ate the other 3/8?

Stabber
07-15-2003, 01:20 PM
ok lemme try this again.
I cut the sub in half. My brother ate one half. I took the other half, cut a 1/4 off the half. Which means I ate 1/8 of the total sub. I just worded it incorrectly

:scratch: :D
Damn, get off my n**s already

Manveet
07-15-2003, 01:27 PM
I usually eat whole food about 30 min after a session. I still don't understand how people can wait up to an hour before having a solid meal.

Bam Bam
07-15-2003, 01:39 PM
hmmm sexy and smart


























no not you stabber

Stabber
07-15-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Bam Bam
hmmm sexy and smart


























no not you stabber :offtopic:

Berserker
07-15-2003, 04:43 PM
Can you beleive people used to get big by eating dead animals and not drinking protein shakes?

bradley
07-15-2003, 04:52 PM
Well you could eat some whole food and try to limit the amount of fat and fiber during the meal.:)

Although I think a liquid post workout shake would be better, but either one will work.

papaoso2k1
07-15-2003, 09:25 PM
what kind of carbs does cereal have??? I went shopping today and I always check the nutrition labels...Today I looked at the ingredients list for almost every cereal at the store...and they all said "sugar" or "refined sugar"...what does it mean?? is it glucose, dextrose, sucrose , fructose????

bradley
07-16-2003, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by papaoso2k1
what kind of carbs does cereal have??? I went shopping today and I always check the nutrition labels...Today I looked at the ingredients list for almost every cereal at the store...and they all said "sugar" or "refined sugar"...what does it mean?? is it glucose, dextrose, sucrose , fructose????

In general most cereals, especially kid's cereals, contain sucrose which is glucose and fructose. Although different brands will have different amounts/types of sugar.

papaoso2k1
07-16-2003, 10:42 AM
and sucrose is ok or is it a big no-no?? Sorry to ask so manhy questions is just that im really new to this whole musclebuilding world and Even though I've read hundreds of Faqs, guides, Write-ups I still have some doubts every now and then...or sometimes I come across things that totally contradict ecah other...

bradley
07-16-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by papaoso2k1
and sucrose is ok or is it a big no-no?? Sorry to ask so manhy questions is just that im really new to this whole musclebuilding world and Even though I've read hundreds of Faqs, guides, Write-ups I still have some doubts every now and then...or sometimes I come across things that totally contradict ecah other...

Well sucrose will do the job of refilling muscle glycogen, but you would not want to consume a large amount due to the fructose content. I believe sucrose is about half glucose and half fructose, and from what recommendations I have seen you should keep your fructose consumption to ~50g per day to avoid spillover into fat cells.

IMO there are better things to eat than sugary cereals as far as post workout nutrition goes, but if you have a craving for them, post workout or during a refeed would be one of the better times to indulge.

aka23
07-16-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by bradley
Well sucrose will do the job of refilling muscle glycogen, but you would not want to consume a large amount due to the fructose content. I believe sucrose is about half glucose and half fructose, and from what recommendations I have seen you should keep your fructose consumption to ~50g per day to avoid spillover into fat cells.

IMO there are better things to eat than sugary cereals as far as post workout nutrition goes, but if you have a craving for them, post workout or during a refeed would be one of the better times to indulge.

I agree that consuming a lot of fructose or sucrose is a bad idea and that eating a very high sugar cereal is a bad idea post workout or otherwise. However, I feel that typical healthy people can handle more than 50g/day of fructose without spillover/triglyceride issues (plasma triglyceride increase indicates spillover into fat cells). A study that supports this conclusion is listed at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8116555&dopt=Abstract

"Ordinary intakes of sucrose or fructose do not have any special elevating effect on plasma triglycerides in most normal and diabetic people, provided energy balance is not changed. Although biochemical theory predicts that fructose is more lipogenic than glucose, nearly all the animal reports of elevated plasma lipids with sucrose- or fructose-rich diets were obtained with diets unnaturally high in these sugars, and in rats and not other species. In humans, increased (fasting) triglycerides are observed with very high intakes, > 35% of energy from sucrose or > 20% of energy from fructose, and even then triglyceride elevation is unlikely unless the subjects are male and dietary fat is saturated."

bradley
07-17-2003, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by aka23


I agree that consuming a lot of fructose or sucrose is a bad idea and that eating a very high sugar cereal is a bad idea post workout or otherwise. However, I feel that typical healthy people can handle more than 50g/day of fructose without spillover/triglyceride issues (plasma triglyceride increase indicates spillover into fat cells). A study that supports this conclusion is listed at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8116555&dopt=Abstract


While I agree and like I said 50g is just an estimate, but I would also think that this would also be dependant on what the rest of your diet looked like for the day and also your activity level.

If you were consuming enough carbs (not fructose) to keep the liver in a fed state then you would more likely cause spillover into fat cells with a higher fructose intake.

Although if you are in an overall calorie deficit it is a moot point, although granted you would lose fat faster if you were not causing this spillover. Either way you will still lose fat but just not as much if you are consuming excessive amounts of fructose.

aka23
07-17-2003, 05:33 AM
My point was that 50g is a very conservative limit that is usually assoicated with rats (poor model becuase they use different fat conversion pathways from humans) or men with health problems, mainly known elevated triglycerides (tendency to convert fructose to triglycerides). Other studies that suggest 50g/day fructose will not cause triglyceride changes in healthy pearsons are:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=756709&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11145118&dopt=Abstract

If you are cosuming excess calories, there may be a spillover to fat. However, excess calories are probably going to end up as fat, regardless of their source. Liver (fructose) glycogen can supply energy to the entire body, unlike muscle glycogen which is limited to muscles. When stores are high the body burns liver (fructose) glycogen at an increased rate to prevent such a spillover. In my opinion, you do not need to worry about fructose stores filling up unless you have a very poor high-sugar diet or have special health problems. I feel that caloric balance is a much more important determination of fat loss than fructose consumption, excluding the special conditions mentioned above.

bradley
07-17-2003, 08:20 AM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11145118&dopt=Abstract

The study above used subjects in a fasted state so that would not really be relevant to what I was referring to.

My main point is this. Liver glycogen can be refilled by most any type of monosaccharide (excluding a few exceptions), and if you are already consuming a good amount of carbs from other sources along with fructose the chance for spillover into fat stores is more of a possibility. I realize that 50g is a conservative estimate, but it will also ensure that you minimize spillover into fat stores.

I know this is really not that much of a concern, especially if you are minimizing the amount of sucrose and high fructose corn syrup in your diet, and I agree that total calories is more important. Although if you are on a higher carb diet that includes a modest amount of fructose the chance for spillover would be greater.

aka23
07-17-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by bradley
Although if you are on a higher carb diet that includes a modest amount of fructose the chance for spillover would be greater.

As hinted at in my previoius post, the body switches the fuel mixture in favor of glycogen when on a higher carb diet and glycogen intake is higher. In this way, the body maintains a sort of homeostasis and avoids spillover, as well as letting glycogen levels get too low. If fructose and calorie intake were the same, I suspect that there would be little difference between a high carb and low carb diet for healthy persons. A high carb diet may actually offer some extra protection against spillover by increasing the maximum size of glycogen stores.

One time where there is a realistic chance of spillover occuring is during a refeed where someone switches from a low cal diet to a high carb diet and caloric surplus for a short period. I think I remember reading that liver can store about 100g of glycogen. Glycogen levels would not usually go this low except for starvation or a keto type diet. It would be very difficult to reach 100g of fructose from whole foods like fruit, but it is a realistic possibility with some of the high-sugar cereals that are popular during refeeds.

bradley
07-17-2003, 10:40 AM
This article also recommends fructose intake be kept at ~50g per day.

http://www.thepowerstore.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/dpower2/htmlos.cgi/135.1.4636886886215999586/dbpsprod/frameindex.html

aka23
07-17-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by bradley
This article also recommends fructose intake be kept at ~50g per day.

http://www.thepowerstore.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/dpower2/htmlos.cgi/135.1.4636886886215999586/dbpsprod/frameindex.html

The link seems to only show the top frame, but if you are referring to the fructose article Lyle Mcdonald wrote at that site, in the summary and recommendations he wrote

"at moderate intakes of fructose, in the range of 50-60 grams per day, fructose appears to pose little problem "

He also says

"Looking at the other studies which gave more reasonable amounts of fructose, as a recent review has done (29), we see a fairly standard pattern: at reasonable amounts of fructose (30-60 grams per day depending on the study), there is no negative effect on VLDL or triglyceride levels. At amounts higher than that (in the range of 80-90+ grams per day), there tend to be an increase in VLDL and triglyceride levels suggesting fat synthesis. "

I do not consider this a <50g per day recommendation. This is saying that 50-60g is a safe level, and triglyceride issues do not occur until higher levels in healthy persons. Some of the studies I linked to suggsest that even 80-90g may be a conservative estimate for persons without medical conditions. And even then, these studies were done in unrealistic conditions. Fructose is almost always used as a sweetener rather than from real food, it is usually taken in a single dose rather than spread out throughout the day, the fructose is sometimes taken through an IV, and many of the studies involved persons who had a known mendical condition. In the Handbook of Diabetes Nutritional Management, Margaret Powers says that it takes over 200g per day increase triglylcerides. There is clearly a lot conflicting evidence. In my opinion the whole fructose triglyceride issue should not be a concern except for persons with a poor diet or certain medical conditions. Note that there are plenty of other reasons that you might want to limit sucrose or fructose besides triglycerides.

bradley
07-17-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by aka23
"at moderate intakes of fructose, in the range of 50-60 grams per day, fructose appears to pose little problem "

He also says

"Looking at the other studies which gave more reasonable amounts of fructose, as a recent review has done (29), we see a fairly standard pattern: at reasonable amounts of fructose (30-60 grams per day depending on the study), there is no negative effect on VLDL or triglyceride levels. At amounts higher than that (in the range of 80-90+ grams per day), there tend to be an increase in VLDL and triglyceride levels suggesting fat synthesis. "

I do not consider this a <50g per day recommendation. This is saying that 50-60g is a safe level, and triglyceride issues do not occur until higher levels in healthy persons.

I never said less <50g but I did say that you should limit fructose consumption to ~50g. I know that is splitting hairs, but I do realize that if you were to eat over 50g of fructose you will not immediately start converting it into fat.

The way I interpret the above quotes is that you will more than likely not see any spillover with a moderate fructose intake of ~50g per day. Increasing fructose intake past this approximation could cause some spillover.

I know we are arguing a point that is really not valid to most individuals following a clean bodybuilding diet, and I appreciate the insight that you have offered:)

Courtney
07-17-2003, 03:07 PM
A few years ago I was following a strict diet. After my workout I wanted to wait til I got home to eat, but I had some errands to run first. I was starving, but I figured I would be home in about 40 minutes and I could wait. I received a phone call asking me to go to the office and take care of an emergency. By the time I got there, I was having huge hunger pangs but I didn't want to eat the sugary snacks and junk food kept at work.

I didn't listen to my body and I fainted. I woke up on the floor, I have no idea how long I was out.

I've read some interesting information in this thread regarding fructose consumption and such, and I think that is very helpful if you have a choice of what to eat. But when push comes to shove and your body is screaming at you, a little bit of food - no matter what it is - is better than nothing.

(edit: yes, I know better now, and make sure I have sustenance on hand)

Scott S
07-17-2003, 11:50 PM
w00t! aka and bradley are duking it out! This is exhilirating!!

:D