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View Full Version : Attn: Bradley, Tryska, anyone - Will keto diet work for me?



technogeeky
07-16-2003, 09:56 AM
Hey folks,

I have been reading about keto diets more today. Will they work for me?


I think it wouldn't hurt losing "5-7" lbs for a few weeks.. especially since I don't have that much muscle to loose anyway.

When I get down to 275 or 270, I'll go back to the diet I'm on now.

Good idea/bad idea, and why?

Tryska
07-16-2003, 10:09 AM
you could use a keto diet - it's basically like atkins, except with higher calories, and very specific fat to protein ratios. it takes a lot of planning and scheduling in order to do it tho. From what I understand you ahve some difficulty planning out your food as far as preparation and all goes.


it's also quite strict. if you can handle the discipline necessary to get the food, cook it, and have it ready in the right ratios, then yeah, it will help get rid fo fat.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 10:37 AM
If I can see some results, I can plan. I am just having trouble knowing if this is working or not.

I get my calipers in Monday so I'll know how I'm doing a little better then.

Tryska
07-16-2003, 10:43 AM
you plan your work and then work your plan - not "i'll see if it works and then i'll figure out a plan" *lol*

Berserker
07-16-2003, 10:45 AM
You may lose 5-7lbs in a few weeks, but not weekly. Unless you got alot of fat. Not sure at 304. Keto is hard to do if eating out. I right now I am trying to limit my carbs to early in the day. Mainly vegetibles, fruit and milk. Atleast with TKD and CKD you get some carbs. I've heard glutamine helps the craving. I've tried it but not sure of its pyhcological, but who cares if it works.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 10:52 AM
Tryska - That's what I'm doing.. I'm just not sure what my results are coming from. I guess it's just a slow process.

Either way.. how low do my carbs need to be for me to enter ketosis?

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Berserker
You may lose 5-7lbs in a few weeks, but not weekly. Unless you got alot of fat. Not sure at 304. Keto is hard to do if eating out. I right now I am trying to limit my carbs to early in the day. Mainly vegetibles, fruit and milk. Atleast with TKD and CKD you get some carbs. I've heard glutamine helps the craving. I've tried it but not sure of its pyhcological, but who cares if it works.

I have a lot of fat. :)

I can bench like 120 if that, so I don't have a lot of muscle.

Fenbay
07-16-2003, 11:04 AM
You absolutely HAVE to be in the right mindset to pull off the keto diet. And not just for a few days or a week. You have to steel yourself for a tough road. If you're not ready mentally don't even bother half-assing it.

But, you will see amazing results if you stick with it. At my fattest I weighed about 312 to 316. I'm rolling 274 this morning.

On my first very serious keto diet ...which I didn't even know was a keto diet because it was called atkins I lost probably 20+ pounds in the first month. I believe they work exceptionally well for very high bodyfat % folks like us, but as I already said I can't hammer home enough what levels of discipline you must have.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 11:20 AM
Do you have a cheat mean on your diet? How long have you been on it?

EdgarMex
07-16-2003, 11:21 AM
Like Tryska, Beserker and Fenbay said, it takes planning and discipline to make it work. I've been on a TKD for a bit over 7 weeks and I have lost 14 lbs so far, but I did a lot of reading about it. If possible get Lyle McDonald's book The Ketogenic Diet. Search for info at these forums, do some reading on the forums at forum.lowcarber.org and at www.c-k-d.com and before you get started plan your meals and your caloric intake. All these will make it easier and more likely to work for you.

EdgarMex
07-16-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
Do you have a cheat mean on your diet? How long have you been on it?

If you're on a CDK, you can consume carbs over the weekend (24-48 hrs.).

If your on a TKD, carbs are only consumed before, during and/or after your workouts.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 11:27 AM
What are the basic varaties of the keto diets, and what is the idea / difference between then and the others.

CKD,TKD, CKD/TKD,atkins...

EdgarMex
07-16-2003, 11:33 AM
SKD - Standard Ketogenic Diet - Low carbing (under 20g/day) all week. Not recommended if you workout

TKD - Low carbing on non-workout days. Add 40-80gr of carbs on workout days. You can consume those before, during and/or after your workout. From my experience I would recommend to take them before.

CKD - Low carb Monday-Friday. Carb up on Saturday-Sunday. Depletion workout on Friday and another two workouts on Monday-Tuesday.

That's a very basic summary, I'd suggest that you research it a lot more before you jump into any of them

Berserker
07-16-2003, 11:39 AM
I like tkd cause you eat the carbs before your wo. So you have it for energy.

I haven't done a keto awhile. Though I did low carb this spring and it worked. Don't think I was in keto though.

Its sad when you would pass up a steak for a glass of milk.

EdgarMex
07-16-2003, 11:42 AM
yeah, that's why I picked the TKD. Other reasons were that I didn't like the idea of having to plan my workouts around the diet and the possibility of the weekend carb-ups turning into pig-outs

Berserker
07-16-2003, 11:49 AM
I didn't like the wos suggested in the articles on the main site either. Wanted to stick with my regular schedule. But I never tried the CKD either, so I don't know.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 12:26 PM
Glass of Milk instead of steak!? I thought steak was on the good list for keto diets. Argh.

Bradley, ring in here bro. Set me straight. Give me advice!! (I'll do the research, you tell me which one to look into)

EdgarMex
07-16-2003, 12:35 PM
check this out for a bit more info 9and the other two links I posted before):

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=88

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 02:02 PM
bradley - you know the most about my situation.. what do you think?

Is it necessarily unhealthy to lose like 7 lbs a week?

raniali
07-16-2003, 02:05 PM
YES - if it is unhealthy to lose 3lbs a week -- it is SUPER unhealthy to lose 7!

bradley
07-16-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by technogeeky
Glass of Milk instead of steak!? I thought steak was on the good list for keto diets. Argh.

I believe Berserker was just being a little sarcastic in reference to the decreased food choices that are available when performing a keto diet.:)

You know even steak gets old after a while.



Bradley, ring in here bro. Set me straight. Give me advice!! (I'll do the research, you tell me which one to look into)

IMO I would find the keto diets to be too restricitive as far as food choices go. You are new to training and dieting and taking such a drastic step is not going to be the key to magic weight loss. You are still just creating a calorie deficit regardless whethere you are performing a keto diet or a more balanced approach.

IMO one of the reasons people are able to have such success with the diet is because of its restrictive nature and also because of the appetite blunting effects that it can have. If you give people an exact plan that says eat this but don't eat that then most people who are determined will be able to stick with it. What I am trying to say is that keto diets take a lot of the guesswork out of dieting.

Another aspect worth mentioning is that you will lose some of the anabolic advantages that a more balanced diet will offer. Since you are at a higher bf% and new to training there is a good chance that you will be able to add muscle while dropping bf, but this possibility will decrease if you were to go on a keto diet.

In my humble opinion I would just stick to the plan you have now. :)


I think it wouldn't hurt losing "5-7" lbs for a few weeks.. especially since I don't have that much muscle to loose anyway.


This is not the amount of weight you should be expecting to lose when on a keto diet, unless you are referring to the first week in which you will see a large initial weight loss due to glycogen/water weight.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 02:47 PM
I have been hearing multiple accounts of people losing 5-7 lbs each week for like 7 or 8 weeks.

carolinagirl
07-16-2003, 02:59 PM
Everybody wants quick results.....it's natural. However, keep in mind that it took you a long time to GET to 304 lbs, and it's going to take you a long time to get it off. Please be patient.


The more wacky stuff that you try, and the quicker you lose the weight, the more likely it is that you will NOT be permanently changing the lifestyle habits that GOT you fat in the first place, and that you will eventually backslide and gain it all back.


Is that really what you want? :)

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 03:19 PM
It's strange.. my old lifestyle habits are changed - I don't overeat anymore, I undereat. ALl the time. I naturally undereat.
*shrug*

I'll stick with this for now.

raniali
07-16-2003, 03:20 PM
techno -- many people lose 5,7 even 10 pounds during a week on CKD. after refeeding - they gain back virtually most of that since the weight loss was primarily due to dehydration during keto.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 03:33 PM
Why don't you just not refeed? hehe

raniali
07-16-2003, 03:44 PM
because then you would only 'lose' maybe a pound or two every week instead !

bradley
07-16-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by technogeeky
Why don't you just not refeed? hehe

Then your glycogen stores would be depleted, and then your training would suffer:(

carolinagirl
07-16-2003, 04:57 PM
And your leptin would eventually drop to the point that you would quit losing fat at an appreciable rate.

Holto
07-16-2003, 05:15 PM
to lose 5lbs of fat a week you need a deficit of 17,500 cals

don't be surprised if you maintain weight for a few months bro

the muscle you will gain will make the rest of the weight loss easier

thats the beauty of the caliper

if you maintain weight but improve caliper measurements then you are gaining muscle and losing bf :)

xraygirl
07-16-2003, 05:16 PM
Okay, here it is in extremely plain English...I think...:)
Once upon a time, we were hunters and gatherers. During certain times of the year (summer), food would be plentiful so the body would store as much as possible to sustain the body during the times of the year when food was not so plentiful (winter). Then during the winter, when the body wasn't getting as much food, the metabolism would more or less screech to a halt to conserve fuel.
When you go for extended periods of time on a reduced calorie regimen, the body thinks "famine!" and you'll stop burning calories. You stop burning calories and you stop losing weight. So you have to trick your body into letting fat go. As long as you do re-feeds the body thinks "cool, no famine here" and lets the fat go.
Does this make any sense at all?

harryhoudini66
07-16-2003, 06:00 PM
I agree. I am still weighting 215 which is the same as three weeks ago, but my body definition has improved. My legs seem more full along wiht my arms and back.

GhettoSmurf
07-16-2003, 06:12 PM
techno- it just sounds like you want quick results. it takes time bro. you say you wouldnt mind losing 7-8 pounds a week, and that you dont have much muscle anyway, well take it from me, that is NOT the kind of attitude you want. why not take it nice and sloooow like 2 pounds a week, 3-tops, and since you say you dont have much muscle anyway, you might GAIN muscle, while LOSING weight.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 06:12 PM
My decision:

As long as I'm seeing results, I'm going to stick with what I'm doing. And I'm seeing results - I'm down to 303 now (at a time when my water and "stomach" weight would be higher than when I usually measure)

I'll have my calipers on Monday and we'll go from there.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by GhettoSmurf
techno- it just sounds like you want quick results. it takes time bro. you say you wouldnt mind losing 7-8 pounds a week, and that you dont have much muscle anyway, well take it from me, that is NOT the kind of attitude you want. why not take it nice and sloooow like 2 pounds a week, 3-tops, and since you say you dont have much muscle anyway, you might GAIN muscle, while LOSING weight.

Of course I want quick results. Everyone wants quick results...

I'm trying to calculate the absurdity of my wants. :)

GhettoSmurf
07-16-2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by technogeeky


Of course I want quick results. Everyone wants quick results...

I'm trying to calculate the absurdity of my wants. :)

when i was 240, and lost 100 pounds in like 6 months, i thought that was what i really wanted. well believe me, i was much happier and had more confidence when i was 240 instead of 140. if i could make the decision of going on a diet again and starting at 240, i would definately lose a pound or 2 (at the most) a week, and i wouldnt care how long it takes.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 08:14 PM
Why, though?

GhettoSmurf
07-16-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by technogeeky
Why, though?

becuase i lost a bunch of muscle. yes, i was skinny, but it was to the point that i looked sick. some people even asked my mom if i was sick or somthing.

here is a bit of a horror story of somthing that could happen: you lose 7-8 pounds a week. you lose any muscle you currently have, and since you are losing 7-8 pounds a week, your body says to itself "oh crap, im starving" and it will start to store whatever food it will get. also, your metabolism will slow way down. then lets say you get to a weight that you are comfortable with, then the moment you start eating normally again, your metabolism will be so slow, and your body will still be thinking "im starving, i need to hold on to w/e food i get", that you will gain a lot of weight back again (hence "yo-yo dieting"), and you will "balloon-up" so to speak.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 08:36 PM
It makes sense, but I'd like to believe that our bodies would realize the new intake and jump out of "starvation" mode pretty fast.. is that supposed to take weeks or something?

GhettoSmurf
07-16-2003, 08:39 PM
your body might realize its getting food again, but remember your metabolism will have been greatly affected.


btw- have you been seeing any results on the diet you are currently doing?

Berserker
07-16-2003, 09:20 PM
Its a tough call. If I was 300 I would lose weight whatever the cost, then again I am onlu 5'6. Need to come up with a happy medium. If your grossly overweight I would say fuc a little muslce. But thats jsut me.

carolinagirl
07-16-2003, 09:41 PM
Your metabolism can actually be affected for YEARS.


Talk to Tryska about this.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 09:57 PM
Hehe. I made my choice.

Tryska is like my mother and bradley is my father :)


I made some YUMMY food earlier.. I'll post it in a bit. :)

ectx
07-16-2003, 10:21 PM
I agree with bradley...you don't need CKD. I also agree with everybody else...7 a week is a bit unreasonable. When I started dieting and lifting the weight flew off...from 3-5 lbs a week...it eventually slowed down a little and went from 3-5 to 2-3...which I think is still a lot. I actually gained LBM because I was new to lifting. My ratios were 60:20:20 (protein:carb:fat). I guess what I'm trying to say is there's no need for extremes. What's necessary is persistence and calculated and intelligent variation. Stick to it, and next thing you know you're looking big and lean.

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 10:40 PM
60:40:40?

60:20:20 maybe?

technogeeky
07-16-2003, 10:53 PM
This is what I had to eat tonight (yeah, i know honey is not-so-good. I didn't use much!)

http://www.fitfor2.com/drew/food1.jpg

http://www.fitfor2.com/drew/food2.jpg

http://www.fitfor2.com/drew/food3.jpg

http://www.fitfor2.com/drew/food4.jpg

ectx
07-16-2003, 10:54 PM
lmao off...yep...def. 20 20...brain fart..haha...I know not what you speak of :angel:

I love the edit feature. :D

GhettoSmurf
07-17-2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
This is what I had to eat tonight (yeah, i know honey is not-so-good. I didn't use much!)

/drew/food1.jpg
http://www.fitfor2.com/drew/food2.jpg
http://www.fitfor2.com/drew/food3.jpg
http://www.fitfor2.com/drew/food4.jpg

well although the pictures didnt show up (at least not to me), i checked your fitday thing and i honestly hope you ate more then that.

Fenbay
07-17-2003, 07:25 AM
I think at very high weight it's ok to cut a lot more calories out at first and basically jump start the whole weight loss process. Then as your body responds to training start eating more. That's purely a personal opinion from observation of my own body's response though.

technogeeky
07-17-2003, 07:34 AM
Heh.. it's what I really ate. I know - but it's all good. I have my supps now so I can plan to eat now. :)

GhettoSmurf
07-17-2003, 07:35 AM
yes, i can see your point, but i mean 2000 calories is already low-enough to "jump start it" for him IMO barely over 1000 is just... i cant explain it. my 12 year old brother eats more then that. hell, i eat more then that in 2 meals.

technogeeky
07-17-2003, 07:40 AM
I wasn't hungry and didn't want food and it was midnight.

GhettoSmurf
07-17-2003, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by technogeeky
I wasn't hungry and didn't want food and it was midnight.

then eat more throughout the day so you dont need to eat at midnight.

also, you arnt eating very calorie-dense food to be going by how hungry you are.

here's an example- i could eat just a bunch of lettuce all day to keep me full. well lettuce has very little calories, but it fills you up. so i could eat lettuce all day, and never be hungry, but i'd only be getting 500 calories.

plus, i thought you posted somewhere else that you were taking an appetite depressent,

technogeeky
07-17-2003, 10:22 AM
I was taking one - Meridia. I stopped because it raised my HR from 120/80 to 140/90.

I don't care about hunger because I never eat impulsively or anything.

AJ_11
07-17-2003, 04:12 PM
Take it slow, or you will regret it. Trust me. You will end up a skinny fat guy. No muscle with a riducalas looking stomach. I have been there and finially I have smartened up. I was skinny on the outside but still ashamed to take off my shirt. It is finally SLOWLY going away no but I eat and train hard.

Changing your Body composition takes time. You will like the results better. Take advantage of your newb gain, where you will gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.

It is frustrating, but trust me on this one.

technogeeky
07-18-2003, 02:50 PM
I put on my size 46" pants today. That is from the absolute maximum of 52" that I wore once.

They aren't comfortable, but they are on me. :)

john26
07-19-2003, 12:59 PM
ketosis diets are nothing magical if you understand the science behind it.. losing weight is pretty easy imo

get adequeate protein, efa's, create a calorie deficit and you're on your way.

dropping calories too low is a bad idea and can/will lead to adverse effects.