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donescobar2000
07-16-2003, 07:09 PM
I am kinda confused on the fat thing. I have researched it and i still do not get it. What is the difference in laymans tersms. Ahh! I know saturated is bad of course and that the body finds it hard to break down. But isn't fat...fat as far as polys and monos? I find it hard to figure out how much I need. I am cutting and taking in 1700 cals. I am 5'4 166 with slow metabolism unfortunatley.

Ironman8
07-16-2003, 10:42 PM
Well, it's kind of hard to explain it in one post, but here's a good article on it, and it isn't confusing

http://www.ephca.com/efa-thf.htm

Sinep
07-17-2003, 05:18 AM
I'm taking plenty of Olive Oil, I believe it is Omega 3 , should I get some Omega 6 in there as well ? What is a good source of Omega 6 ?

donescobar2000
07-17-2003, 05:34 AM
http://www.annecollins.com/dietary-fat/omega-3-efa-6-chart.htm

Check that out!

manowar669
07-17-2003, 07:50 AM
Wow,
According to those charts, assuming I'm reading them correctly, it looks like walnuts and walnut oil is an EFA superfood. Am I correct in reading that you need more O6 than O3? If that is correct, it looks like walnuts got you covered.

bradley
07-17-2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by Sinep
I'm taking plenty of Olive Oil, I believe it is Omega 3 , should I get some Omega 6 in there as well ? What is a good source of Omega 6 ?

Well olive oil is a good source of monounsaturated fat and antioxidants but it does not contain much in the way of EFAs.

Most people get plenty n-6 fatty acids through their diet so there is really no need to supplement with them. Some good sources would include oils such as sunflower, safflower, nuts, seeds, etc.

If you are looking for a good source of n-3 fatty acids I would recommend fish oil over other choices such as flaxseeds or walnuts. Fish supplies EPA/DHA directly to the body where as flaxseeds and walnuts provide ALA which has to be converted into EPA/DHA which is not an effecient process in the body.

bradley
07-17-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by manowar669
Wow,
According to those charts, assuming I'm reading them correctly, it looks like walnuts and walnut oil is an EFA superfood. Am I correct in reading that you need more O6 than O3? If that is correct, it looks like walnuts got you covered.

Walnuts are a good source of alpha linolenic acid, but ALA has to be converted to EPA/DHA in the body which is not really an effecient process. IMO you would be better off eating oily fish or supplementing with fish oil to get your n-3 fats. Since they supply EPA/DHA directly to the body, and therefore do not have to go through any conversions.

bradley
07-17-2003, 08:55 AM
These might be of interest:)

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/560S

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10901194&dopt=Abstract

Sinep
07-17-2003, 09:21 AM
Bradley: where can I get my hands on the infamous fish oil you are talking about ? I don't recall seeing it on grocery shelves, though I think my mom had some pills filled with it when I was a kid. Should we take it in bottle form or pill ?

So far this is what I've learned today, Olive oil is monounsatured fat, does not contain EFA but is very healthy. Omega6 to Omega3 should be approx. 3:1 ratio. How much should you take ? Can you have too much EFA ?

donescobar2000
07-17-2003, 09:40 AM
So peanut butter i am guessing is an omega 6?

Y2A
07-17-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by donescobar2000
So peanut butter i am guessing is an omega 6?

Yeah. Fish oil will get you the 3s.

bradley
07-17-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Sinep
Bradley: where can I get my hands on the infamous fish oil you are talking about ?

You should be able to find it in most any health food store or supplement shop.



Should we take it in bottle form or pill ?


Either one would be fine, but I prefer the caps just out of convenience, and the liquid is not very tasty. Just make sure that you get an oil that has been molecularly distilled, although I have yet to see a brand that has not undergone this process. Thought it was worth mentioning though:)

The liquid should come in a glass tinted bottle BTW.



Omega6 to Omega3 should be approx. 3:1 ratio. How much should you take ? Can you have too much EFA ?

While there are minimum values established I have yet to see a definite number for the ideal amount of EFAs. Most of the studies done on fish oil use ~6g which is what I usually see recommended.

IMO you should concentrate on getting a good amount of EFAs in your diet and at a decent ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acids.

I believe Udo Erasmus recommends 9-18g of n-6 fats and 2-9g of n-3 fatty acids.

Basically take in ~25% of your cals from fat, get a good amount of EFAs with a good n-6 to n-3 ratio, and fill in the rest of your cals with something like olive oil which can be thought of as a "neutral" fat.

bradley
07-17-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by donescobar2000
So peanut butter i am guessing is an omega 6?

Peanut butter contains ~7.5g of monounsaturated fat, ~4.5g of polyunsaturated fat (n-6), and ~3g of saturated fat.

donescobar2000
07-17-2003, 02:54 PM
So in order for me to cut. I should be eating more polys? In my situation I am shooting for at the most 40 grams of fat at the most. So 21grams of poly ( 14g of Omega 6 - 7 Grams of Omega 3) 9grams of Mono 10 Saturated if not less?

bradley
07-17-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by donescobar2000
So in order for me to cut. I should be eating more polys? In my situation I am shooting for at the most 40 grams of fat at the most. So 21grams of poly ( 14g of Omega 6 - 7 Grams of Omega 3) 9grams of Mono 10 Saturated if not less?

Sounds fine to me although why are you keeping your fat intake so low? IMO fat intake should be at least 25% of your daily calorie intake.

Also when you are refeeding you need to minimize fat intake, except for EFAs. I am mentioning this because I believe you said you were refeeding once or twice a week?

donescobar2000
07-17-2003, 05:07 PM
So on a refeed day how much fat should I shoot for? Although I do not feel I need to refeed should i still do it? I do not feel fatigued since my cheat day I have been eating 150 to 200 carbs.

cphafner
07-18-2003, 12:28 AM
Sinep: walmart carries realy cheap fish oil caps

bradley
07-18-2003, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by donescobar2000
So on a refeed day how much fat should I shoot for?

~15% of daily cals, and make sure to get enough EFAs. You will have some fat from the foods that you eat, but do your best to minimize fat intake.



Although I do not feel I need to refeed should i still do it? I do not feel fatigued since my cheat day I have been eating 150 to 200 carbs.

Are you still losing each week? If you do not feel fatigued or have hunger cravings and you are still losing bf then probably not.

donescobar2000
07-18-2003, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by bradley


~15% of daily cals, and make sure to get enough EFAs. You will have some fat from the foods that you eat, but do your best to minimize fat intake.



Are you still losing each week? If you do not feel fatigued or have hunger cravings and you are still losing bf then probably not.

Great. I guess I will save my refeed for when I go to the beach this Sun. I'm gonna have some intense workouts for the next 2 days. At least I hope I can control myself. I hit up the pizza joints and get me a pasta.