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Shooter223
07-17-2003, 06:46 PM
Well, first, before I rant I want to say thanks to whoever runs this board. This place has an amazing amount of information. WOW.

OK, rant time. I have been working on losing weight and getting fitter for about 4 months. At first, easy. Dropped 10-15 pounds and got stronger. Lift weights 3 times a week, powerwalk up and down a damn hill 40 minutes every day.

Changed what I eat. Gave up soda (I still hear that Mountain Dew siren calling MY name), chocolate (the 5th food group), potato chips, McDonalds, etc. I eat much better now though I am not trying to starve myself. I reduced my fat intake dramatically although I don't buy into the theory a low fat diet alone is the right idea. SImply that before my nearly 150 grams of fat a day was too high.

In any case, I dropped to 202 lbs pretty quick. Now - it doesn't move. What in the world?

I start thinking about what I eat each day. Hmm, seems like I'm eating a healthy diet with lots of fruit and veggies and stuff. No empty calories. Well, except for the 5 ttimes a week I treat myself to Starbucks. I mean, how many calories can a Starbucks Cafe Mocha and a Pumpkin Scone have?

[HomerSimpson mode on] DOH [HomerSimpson mode off]

How about nearly 800 stupid calories in a stupid coffee and scone.

(sigh)

OK. Guess I gotta dump the Starbucks too. I better start droipping weight again soon or ya might as well take me to the glue factory and get it over with.

Thanks for hearing my rant. Now back to regularly scheduled programming.

EdgarMex
07-17-2003, 06:53 PM
You might want to track your calorie intake (www.fitday.com is an easy way) to see if your calories are high or low and then adjust accordingly. When I first started cleaning up my diet I wasn't losing any weight, after tracking my cals for a few days it turned out I was eating too much to be losing weight.

Jasonl
07-17-2003, 06:55 PM
try dropping the cals a bit more, i did the same thing(kinda) for cutting, all of a sudden i wasn't changing at all, i just dropped an extra 200 cals a day and that seemed to work. i also went from a slow run to HIIT for a while, worked very well. gotta love/HATE!!!!!!!! HIIT.

Shooter223
07-17-2003, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the tips. Well, I went to fitday and my day today was about:

2025 calories
Fat 74 grams
Carbs 209
Protien 113

Seems from my limited knowledge this isn't too bad.

But, again, today I had a cup of Starbucks Mocha (not realizing how many calories it has). If I had dropped that alone, I think I'd be on a too low diet. In fact, I'm hungry now and will probably have one more meal (not a big one). Probably an apple and EAS Protien Shake.

I'm mostly ranting cause I am such a dummy and didn't realize how many calories were in Starbucks stuff. Damn. A scone is like 500 and I'm trying for around a 2200 a day diet until I reach my weight.

Thanks again.

EdgarMex
07-17-2003, 07:40 PM
for your weight, 2000 seems a bit low. according to the formula most people here use to find there cutting cals (12*BW) you should be taking in around 2400, so you could up your cals a bit and see if you start losing weight again, or maybe keep 2000-2200 and ease a bit the cardio.

Y2A
07-17-2003, 07:43 PM
yeah, drop the starbucks and up the protein bro, you should be fine :)

bradley
07-18-2003, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by Shooter223
Thanks for the tips. Well, I went to fitday and my day today was about:

2025 calories
Fat 74 grams
Carbs 209
Protien 113





You definitely need more protein in your diet, and I would recommend ~1g of protein per lb. of bw. Are you taking in enough EFAs (healthy fats) throught the day? Good sources of fat would include fish oil, nuts, natural peanut butter, olive oil, flaxseed oil, oily fish, etc.

Also, as mentioned by some of the other members, your calorie intake sounds too low for your current activity level. Try upping the cals a little and make sure you are taking in adequate protien and EFAs (essential fatty acids).

If you want more feedback you could post your diet and I am sure you will get some good advice:)

p_t
07-18-2003, 03:56 AM
I just want to add that the the first 2 to 3 months usually you will see a dramatic difference. Your body goes from doing nothing (in comparison) to doing alot. After that you tend to see your small plateus. From that point look at if your diet or workout needs more of a tweaking. And then adjust the other after that. As a human it can be really hard to do both. So don't set your self unrealistic goals. Set yourself small goals(as many as it takes) and keep moving on once you make those.

Shooter223
07-18-2003, 08:09 AM
Thanks for the support. I think y2a hit the nail on the head. Give up the Starbucks (about 450 empty calories a day averaged out to every other day) and up the protein.

As to my normal diet, here is a typical day:

After AM 45 minute fast walk,

Protein Shake EAS Whey with 1% milk
small bowl of Honey nuts and oats with 1% milk
banana

mid AM

1/2 cup cottage cheese and blueberrys

Lunch

1/2 cub cottage cheese with berrys
1/8 lb deli turkey with mustard
apple
raisons
pickel
10 crackers with salsa (I know, not good tuttut )

Mid aft

apple or other fruit
maybe another shake

dinner

meat (either fish or turkey or chicken)
large salad of romaine, bell peppers, tomatoes, onions, olive oil dressing

And of course I was going to Starbucks about 5 times a week having a Coffee Mocha (no whip) and pumpkin scone (damn they are good) Only about 900 empty calories in that.

Somehow I feel the diet above combined with lifting every other day should reduce my body fat. I'll keep trying. :)

bradley
07-18-2003, 11:03 AM
Looks as though you still need more fat (EFAs) in the above diet.

You might think about adding in a small meal that contains protein and a little fat before bed, but this would depend on how long after dinner you usually go to sleep. If you needed to free up some calories you could drop the raisins and crackers that you eat during lunch.

Do you drink a post workout shake of any sort?

Shooter223
07-19-2003, 12:13 PM
Bradley,

What are EFAs? And why would anyone need more fat if they are trying to lose weight?

I'm not trying to be a wise guy. I don't get it.

Oh, after I lift I have a shake. The routine I am on is:

Every AM power walk up that damn hill for 45 minutes and THEN

Day 1 - upper body 45 minutes
Day 2 - abs & stretching legs and back
Day 3 - legs
Day 4 - abs, sprints on stationary bike
Day 5 - arms/shoulders
Day 6 - abs & lower back
Day 7 - sleep

Each day, I drink an EAS shake about 30 minutes after I finish lifting. With that is usually breakfast. I wait the 30 minutes cause I read somewhere (Body for Life?) that the body will burn more fat at that time if you don't feed it right away.

I am still a beginner to this and not as disciplined yet as I need to be. I spend 2 months at home and 2 on the road in Asia. When I am in Asia, I usually fall off any excerscise programs and the diet slips too.

Thanks for all the help.

bradley
07-19-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Shooter223
What are EFAs? And why would anyone need more fat if they are trying to lose weight?

Well EFAs are essential fatty acids which are an important aspect of general health and also important in terms of weight loss. Hence the reason they are called "essential fatty acids."

There are two types of EFAs, omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids. Most people get plenty of omega 6s through their diet so there is no need to really worry about those. Although most people do not get enough omega 3s through their diet, so supplementing with fish oil, flaxseed oil, or including oily fish (example salmon) in your diet would be beneficial. Basically you want to make sure that you are getting a good ratio of omega 6 fats to omega 3 fats. A good ratio would be somewhere around 2-3:1, and humans reportedly evolved on a diet with equal amounts of n-6 to bn-3 fatty acids.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12442909&dopt=Abstract

With respect to weightloss n-3 fats are responsible for having an effect on the genes that are involved in fat oxidation (gene expression), and will also take the place of other fats that promote fat storage such as n-6 fats and saturated fats. Also n-3 fats are the first fats that are lost from the fat cells when dieting, so you want to make sure that you are getting a constant supply of them through your diet (~6-8g is the usual recommendation).

There is obviously more to it than this, but that should give you an idea:)



Every AM power walk up that damn hill for 45 minutes and THEN


Are you performing cardio and then your weight routine or walking up the hill in the morning and then weights in the PM?



Each day, I drink an EAS shake about 30 minutes after I finish lifting. With that is usually breakfast. I wait the 30 minutes cause I read somewhere (Body for Life?) that the body will burn more fat at that time if you don't feed it right away.


Ideally your post workout shake would include some fast digesting protein (whey) and some carbs (dextrose and/or maltodextrin), which would be consumed immediately after your workout and then follow up with a whole food meal ~90 minutes later. I would recommend ~50g carbs and ~25g of protein post workout.

You are right in that you would burn more fat waiting 30 minutes but then again you are also in a catabolic state. IMO the anabolic benefits from the shake outweigh the fat burning benefits of waiting 30 minutes, and really it comes down to calorie balance at the end of the day.

A pre-workout shake that contains a small amount of carbs and protein has also been shown to be beneficial and probably more so than a post workout shake. The shake would contain ~10-15g of whey and ~25-35g of carbs mixed in a small amount of water taken about 30 minutes before training.

Shooter223
07-19-2003, 07:36 PM
OK. I understand the Omega 3 deficiency. I try to eat fish a f ew times a week. Perhaps I should supplement with fish oil.



Originally posted by bradley


Are you performing cardio and then your weight routine or walking up the hill in the morning and then weights in the PM?

.

I am first doing the walking, then 15 minutes rest, then the lifting. Then I wait 30 minutes. Perhaps you are right. I should drink the shake right away, shower and then eat breakfast.

I notice my caloric intake is lower than I expected. SImply giving up the bad stuff has had an amazing change in my diet. I eat pretty much as much as I want so long as I am eating quality foods. Today for example after dinner I am at:

calories = 1464
Fat = 49 (sat - 12, poly - 10, mono-22
Carbs = 120
Protein = 149

Actually, this isn't quite right as I haven't figured out what the large salad I have with the fish at dinner will add, so more of everything there with a large romaine, tomato, onion, pepper, etc salad. Salad dressing is always canola oil with flavorings.

I think the calories is off dramatically. I entered this stuff into fitday, but I might not be right in amounts and sometimes I am choosing a like thing when what I have isn't there. For example, I am having snapper and I had to enter whiting fish (which I think is alike).

If the calories are correct, I will waste away to nothing at this rate. And I feel hungry now (before dinner), but not starving.

bradley
07-20-2003, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by Shooter223
OK. I understand the Omega 3 deficiency. I try to eat fish a f ew times a week. Perhaps I should supplement with fish oil.

Well IMO you should try to get ~6g of n-3 fats a day, and if you can get this amount from whole foods then that is fine. It would not hurt to take in more than 6g to make sure that the fat is making it to the fat cell and not being used for energy.



I am first doing the walking, then 15 minutes rest, then the lifting. Then I wait 30 minutes. Perhaps you are right. I should drink the shake right away, shower and then eat breakfast.

IMO you should lift first and then you could perform a little cardio if you wanted (~20 minutes or so). Basically IMO that is too much training at one time, which could lead to muscle catabolism.



I notice my caloric intake is lower than I expected. SImply giving up the bad stuff has had an amazing change in my diet. I eat pretty much as much as I want so long as I am eating quality foods. Today for example after dinner I am at:

calories = 1464
Fat = 49 (sat - 12, poly - 10, mono-22
Carbs = 120
Protein = 149

Actually, this isn't quite right as I haven't figured out what the large salad I have with the fish at dinner will add, so more of everything there with a large romaine, tomato, onion, pepper, etc salad. Salad dressing is always canola oil with flavorings.

I think the calories is off dramatically. I entered this stuff into fitday, but I might not be right in amounts and sometimes I am choosing a like thing when what I have isn't there. For example, I am having snapper and I had to enter whiting fish (which I think is alike).

If the calories are correct, I will waste away to nothing at this rate. And I feel hungry now (before dinner), but not starving.

Well even though you are dieting you still have to make sure to eat enough to support your activity level. Good job on cleaning upi the diet, and now you just need to add in some more healthy foods and you will be set.

At 202lbs. you will definitely need more calories than 1400 and also need to bump up the protein and EFAs.

As far as the calorie content of various foods you can also use the website below, or you could purchase a bood of calorie counts at your local bookstore. I find the book more convenient than having too look everything up online.:)

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR15/sr15.html

Shooter223
07-21-2003, 10:20 AM
Bradley,

Thanks for all the tips. You know it is funny. Once I dumped all the bad stuff (soda, chocolate, chips and fries) it isn't easy to eat ENOUGH. I get full fast eating stuff that is good for me.

Like today. Once I realized eating eggs was a good thing, I made an omelet (OK, credit due, my wife made it) with 4 eggs, 1/2 cup monterey cheese, teaspoon of olive oil and a bit of water. Slammed that with a Whey shake right after working out. I am stuffed. And a lot of calories. But, I figure I got about 75 grams of protein. That only leaves, 110 more grams today. It isn't easy actually. I doubt I'll be hungry again for a lot. Seems like I eat more when I eat junk.

Still miss my Starbucks fix though.

bradley
07-21-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Shooter223
Seems like I eat more when I eat junk.


When you are eating junk the food generally is calorie dense but not very filling, and the rise and fall of your blood sugar levels could also have something to do with it. I believe Faigin calls this "hormonal hunger" in his book Natural Hormonal Enhancement.

Anyway happy to hear that the diet is coming along.:)