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View Full Version : 3x3 - a new approach



DK
07-17-2003, 08:51 PM
I've been thinking alot lately about where my training is going. I've been doing westside for about 10 months now. I've seen good gains, but after reading this threadwww.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34468 (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34468), I've decided I need to rethink why I seem to injure my lower back quite easily when doing deadlifts. I'm not a very experienced lifter. I've been lifting for awhile, but I still haven't figured out a lot of how my body will respond to certain methods.

Hell, I just started squatting about 9 weeks ago (because of lack of a rack). I've only been doing squats off a box no free squats.

I also know that my bench form could use some work. It has always been my weakpoint. I'm bringing it up slowing, but I still have room for a lot of improvement.

I wanted something that would give me practice on all three lifts. I'm thinking I might try a cycle or two a 3x3, just to try it. It couldn't hurt.

But the lack of speed work and some assistance work has me worried. Has anyone done this. I'd for sure add in some ab work, but what about other movements. Any thought? Anyone tried 3x3?

Paul Stagg
07-18-2003, 09:14 AM
I've never used it, bt I htink it's a great idea for someone who needs to practice the lifts.

I also balk at the lack of assistance work, especially the lack of pulling. I'd modify the program a little, and add in some chins and rows on one of the days, and maybe some cuff work and ab work.

fuzz
07-18-2003, 09:32 AM
I think the 3x3 would be a great program ...here are some articles on it for anyone who doesn't know about it:

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/index.htm

Depending on what type of volume you are used to, you might need to spend some time conditioning yourself to the type of volume the Korte program uses. Doing the big three movements three times a week could be very taxing if you aren't used to it - so I imagine if you've been doing HIT or something similiar you would need some adjustment time.

I'm thinking of trying something like this fairly soon, to switch things up from HST...

Ja113
07-22-2003, 09:37 AM
Bump on Fuzz...

I tried the Korte program and burned out about 4 weeks into it and had to stop for a week. And I didn't really see much of an improvement.

Manveet
07-23-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by dkliewer
I've been thinking alot lately about where my training is going. I've been doing westside for about 10 months now. I've seen good gains, but after reading this threadwww.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34468 (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34468), I've decided I need to rethink why I seem to injure my lower back quite easily when doing deadlifts. I'm not a very experienced lifter. I've been lifting for awhile, but I still haven't figured out a lot of how my body will respond to certain methods.

Hell, I just started squatting about 9 weeks ago (because of lack of a rack). I've only been doing squats off a box no free squats.

I also know that my bench form could use some work. It has always been my weakpoint. I'm bringing it up slowing, but I still have room for a lot of improvement.

I wanted something that would give me practice on all three lifts. I'm thinking I might try a cycle or two a 3x3, just to try it. It couldn't hurt.

But the lack of speed work and some assistance work has me worried. Has anyone done this. I'd for sure add in some ab work, but what about other movements. Any thought? Anyone tried 3x3?

There's actually a nice little set up I was reading in Supertraining using a 3X3 method.

DK
07-23-2003, 08:44 PM
Can you post it for me?

I really need to buy that book sometime.

PowerManDL
07-24-2003, 12:04 AM
A lot of people say that, but few people find it that useful when they get it.

silles
07-24-2003, 12:47 AM
Christian Thibaudeau has designed a hybrid 3x3/Westside program that is supposedly incredible. It's funny as this topic has just come up on Thibby's personal forum. The program was called, "Canadian non-linear autoregulatory training" and I believe he will be emailing it out to subscribers. I'll keep ya'll updated.

Adam
07-24-2003, 07:46 AM
I did that Canadian non linear thing about 2 years ago, I felt that it got too boring though.

Manveet
07-24-2003, 08:49 AM
I'll just post the training phase, there's actually quite a bit of stuff on it, but I don't have a scanner.

3RM routine

0. Warmup
1. 6 reps/50% of 3RM
2. reps/75% of 3RM
3. reps to failure/3RM*
4. adjusted reps to failure*

*The asterisk indicates that the training load must be adjusted according to the table below.

*Set 4 is used to determine the next sessions 3RM according to the adjustment table below.

Repetitions Set4
1-2 decr 2.5-5kg
3-4 leave same
5-6 incr 2.5-5kg
7- incr 5-10kg

"The method of execution may also be altered, as the fitness of the athlete increases. For instance, the repetitions may be done more rapidly and a brief ballistic action may used near the end of the movement, in order to recruit the phasic reflex more powerfully and to prepare the musculoskeletal system more effectively for the more rapid transition phases of functional excercise."


I hope that helps. Maybe powerman can jump in and outline a few of the ideas siff presents on this section. Another thing he notes is that generally you would want to follow a 6RM protocol for 6-8 weeks prior to the 3RM. Then you can also toss in a 10RM hypertrophy phases using the same protocol whenever you want.

fuzz
07-24-2003, 08:59 AM
Are you referring to Supertraining? Why would you say this? I thought it was one of the "bibles" of powerlifting.


Originally posted by PowerManDL
A lot of people say that, but few people find it that useful when they get it.

Manveet
07-24-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by fuzz
Are you referring to Supertraining? Why would you say this? I thought it was one of the "bibles" of powerlifting.



It is very very technical.

PowerManDL
07-24-2003, 11:06 AM
Manveet:

That's the APRE program, Auto-regulating Progressive Resistance Exercise.

Its based on a 4-set system. The first set is 50% xRM, set 2 is 75%, set 3 is the xRM to failure. The 4th set is determined by performance on the 3rd set.

Supertraining uses a 10RM, 6RM, and a 3RM, and according to how many reps you can get with xRM, you either adjust the weight up, down, or leave it where it is.

Sean: It should be up on Thib's site; I read it about a year ago. It actually uses some of the APRE principles above. In fact, if you run a search, you might find a thread on it. I'll link it in here if I find it.

Fuzz: It's probably the most comprehensive book ever written on all areas of strength training. Which is why most people can't get much out of it. If you don't already have a pretty strong math and science background, it'll get way over your head real fast.

DK
07-24-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by silles
Christian Thibaudeau has designed a hybrid 3x3/Westside program that is supposedly incredible. It's funny as this topic has just come up on Thibby's personal forum. The program was called, "Canadian non-linear autoregulatory training" and I believe he will be emailing it out to subscribers. I'll keep ya'll updated.

Hmm. A Korte/Simmons hybrid does sound interesting. Post a link if some one finds something.

PowerManDL
07-24-2003, 07:32 PM
I couldn't find the original program, as its been taken down off the old site.

But from what I remember, it used the 3x3 framework adjusted for a Westside-ish approach with a little APRE mixed in.

For example:

Day 1:
Squat - APRE 3RM
Bench - APRE 6RM
Deadlift - 8x2 @ 60% (Speed)

Day 2:
Squat - APRE 6RM
Bench - 8x2 @55% (Speed)
Deadlift - APRE 3RM

Day 3:
Squat - 8x2 @ 60% (Speed)
Bench - APRE 3RM
Deadlift - APRE 6RM

Something to that effect. If I remember right, there was some assistance work thrown in but I'm not sure where, or if there was any at all. I also think he had some sort of longer term periodization mechanism built in, but again I'm not sure.

DK
07-24-2003, 07:39 PM
I really like the look of that. I'll probably do something similar to that after football.

silles
07-25-2003, 12:20 AM
That is some very interesting ****.

DK
07-25-2003, 01:32 PM
Here's a quote from Jim Wendler from WSB regarding 3x3 and hybrids.

I've never heard of the WSB/3x3 hybrid routine. If it worked very well, we would all be using it as would a host of Elite powerlifters. I am not going to say anything except the 3x3 method is based on a theory, not actual training. I've heard some funny stories about this training program and how it was devised; i.e it is similar to communism and monogamy; it looks good on paper, but blows fat, nasty ass when put in motion.

Adam
07-25-2003, 01:47 PM
Heres a little excel file i found on my computer. I used to use these for planing my workouts.

noraa
07-25-2003, 03:56 PM
Total- 1,203
does it really add up to 1203?

Adam
07-25-2003, 04:50 PM
sort of. The bench was done in a different contest then the squat and deadlift.

SquareHead
07-25-2003, 05:20 PM
Sorry but, APRE?

PowerManDL
07-25-2003, 06:50 PM
Autoregulating Progressive Resistance Exercise