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NormalDude
07-18-2003, 01:19 AM
I am hoping someone can offer advise. I recently decided to try to bulk and grow some muscle and it seems to be moving ok. But I have been reading and wondering if I should try to cut first instead? What would get better results? Bulking first then cutting or cutting first then bulking? And does anyone have a good cutting plan ( diet and workout ) that they use? Thanks alot everyone.

YatesNightBlade
07-18-2003, 03:40 AM
Bulk, but healthy\clean bulk. Cut out the crap and you'll built quality muscle and minimal fat.

p_t
07-18-2003, 03:42 AM
Yes bulk first. You have to have something to build off of. Cutting down is usually much easier seeing you can boost you metabolism to very different lvls. But once you metabolism is at a high rate it can be very hard to keep weight on to bulk.

bradley
07-18-2003, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by NormalDude
I am hoping someone can offer advise. I recently decided to try to bulk and grow some muscle and it seems to be moving ok. But I have been reading and wondering if I should try to cut first instead? What would get better results? Bulking first then cutting or cutting first then bulking? And does anyone have a good cutting plan ( diet and workout ) that they use? Thanks alot everyone.

I think you would see better results if you first cut down your bf%, and then tried to increase LBM. Since you are at 21% you will add some bf when bulking which would mean you would have to diet for an extended period of time to get back to a lower bf%. Dieting for an extended period of time increases the chances that you will lose LBM and also is not very fun.

You should be able to lose weight fairly easy since you will be starting from a higher bf%. Just create a small calorie deficit through diet, training, or a combination of the two. Also make sure you are getting enough protein and EFAs in your diet.

This might help you plan out your diet:




Here are some general dieting guidelines that might be of some help:
1) 1 gram of protein per lb. of bodyweight

2) 25-30% of daily calories should come from fat (Essential fatty
acids making up most of this total)

3) Fill in the rest of daily calories with low glycemic index carbs, except postworkout which would ideally include high glycemic index carbs along with a quick digesting protein (whey protein).

4) Drink plenty of water throughout the day, and one gallon would be good starting point.

Listed below are some good sources of each macronutrient. This is just a small list and is by no means all inclusive.

protein sources: eggs, chicken, lean beef, dairy, fish

low GI carbs: oats, sweet potatoes, beans, whole wheat bread, vegetables

fats: nuts, natural peanut butter, oily fish (such as salmon), fish oil, flax oil, hemp oil, olive oil

To find out how many cals you should be eating each day I would slowly decrease cals in small increments until you are losing the desired amount of weight each week (approximately 1lb per week is a good number IMO). You can use www.fitday.com to help you track calories if you like. Here is an example of what I mean. Say you are eating 3000 cals and maintaining your weight then you would need to decrease cals by a small amount (about 200-300). That would put you at 2700 cals for the week. Keep cals at this level for the week and then weigh yourself at the end of the week and see how much weight you have lost. I woud weigh myself at the same time each week to try and ensure the most accurate measurement.

As far as routines go you might want to check out one of the WBB routines on the main page. The following site has a list of exercise illustrations that might be helpful as well www.exrx.net

There is a lot of information in previous threads as well. Run some searches and you will find a lot of answers to your questions.

NormalDude
07-18-2003, 12:45 PM
Thanks for the answers everyone. I think i will continue to bulk. And what is health / clean bulking?

raniali
07-18-2003, 12:56 PM
a healthy/clean bulk is one where you follow a regimen of clean bulk foods (rice, yams, oatmeal, olive oil, nuts -- not pizza, fast food, ice cream etc) instead of just shoving everything and anything you see down your throat. when one goes on a cut, they usually plan their calories and macronutrients and follow a specific eating schedule. apply these same rules to a bulk and you should be successful at adding lean mass with minimal fat gain.

NormalDude
07-18-2003, 12:57 PM
Ah got it. Thats what I am trying to do now clean bulk

KrYptic
07-18-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by bradley


I think you would see better results if you first cut down your bf%, and then tried to increase LBM. Since you are at 21% you will add some bf when bulking which would mean you would have to diet for an extended period of time to get back to a lower bf%. Dieting for an extended period of time increases the chances that you will lose LBM and also is not very fun.

You should be able to lose weight fairly easy since you will be starting from a higher bf%. Just create a small calorie deficit through diet, training, or a combination of the two. Also make sure you are getting enough protein and EFAs in your diet.

This might help you plan out your diet:



I agree with bradley on this one. I would bring down your bodyfat percentage a little before doing some serious bulking.

I would say shoot for a diet around 33/33/33 with a slight calorie surplus. Keeping it clean like stressed by everyone above.

LAM
07-18-2003, 03:06 PM
I would go isocaloric until you get your bf and diet down. the higher the bf the more fat the body typically stores, since most overweight persons have low insulin sensitivity...

NormalDude
07-18-2003, 03:24 PM
Well I am not that over weight. I am not one of these fat people that cant get out of bed like on tv. The only place I have fat is my stomach. My arms and legs and face are more or less skinny. So I dont know if that makes a difference in what everyone is suggesting here. I think I did the bf test wrong

bradley
07-18-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by NormalDude
Well I am not that over weight. I am not one of these fat people that cant get out of bed like on tv. The only place I have fat is my stomach. My arms and legs and face are more or less skinny. So I dont know if that makes a difference in what everyone is suggesting here. I think I did the bf test wrong

Well you sig does say 21% bf so that is the measure that everyone is basing their advice on. While I am not saying that you are fat, I was just pointing out that if you were to decrease your bf first and then concentrate on gaining I think you would be much happier with the results. More than likely you will increase your bf% no matter how "clean" of a bulking diet you perform.

As LAM pointed out the higher the bf% the easier it will be for you to add bf, so therefore by the time you finish bulking you will have more LBM but on the other hand you wil have more fat. When dieting for extended periods of time you increase your chances of losing the LBM that you gained during your bulking phase.

What about concentrating on losing weight for a couple of months and then you will have a much better base for bulking, so to speak. Although in the end it comes down to personal goals.

NormalDude
07-18-2003, 06:54 PM
Well as for personal goals I want to have some decent muscle size with about 10% bf. I am not trying to be the perfect male here.

AllUp
08-11-2003, 09:16 AM
Yep, Easier to bulk before diet at a semi-high BF%, If you do a crazy diet and cut off the cals/carbs and lose weight, some losses will be muscle and water, The muscle being harder to gain after the dieting because your metabolism is way up there. Bulk and build up some muscle, You may notice near your abs it will look like a slight barrelchest, but you want this because when you cut the skin gradually tightens up and you will just see the abs :D, then create a slight calorie deficit, Using our stats(8lb difference, same height) a 500cal deficit should have you losing about 1lb/wk. You will have to do a little cardio to get rid of the loose skin from the dieting though after you lose BF%.