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View Full Version : CKD ....any way to determine optimum time between carb ups?



Fenbay
07-18-2003, 07:24 AM
Title pretty much says it all.

Weekly? Every couple week? Seems like this would vary from individual to individual. But is there any way to aid in determining this?

Paul Stagg
07-18-2003, 09:20 AM
AS far as I know, just trial and error.

Weekly seems to work for most, although if you are extra tubby, you might benefit from going longer.

GhettoSmurf
07-18-2003, 11:23 AM
with a CKD, i've heard that you want to be in ketosis for 10-14 days before your FIRST carb-up. then after that have 1 carb-up during the week. (~6 days keto, ~1 day carb-up, depending on how long your carb-up is)

GhettoSmurf
07-18-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
although if you are extra tubby, you might benefit from going longer.

i'd agree with you that if it was just a regular cutting diet, then not having a "carb-up" for a while would be better, but since this is a CKD, and assuming your working out, i think it would be better to have a weekly carb-up even if you do have a good amount of fat, becuase i think it would be better to replenish muscle glycogen, then remaining in ketosis for extended periods of time.

bradley
07-18-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Fenbay
Weekly? Every couple week? Seems like this would vary from individual to individual. But is there any way to aid in determining this?

If you are performing the standard CKD diet I would recommend some sort of carb up every week to refill muscle glycogen. You should be able to refill muscle glycogen with 24 hour carb up, as long as you are taking in enough carbs to do so. The first 6 hours after your depletion workout is when glycogen resynthesis will be at it's peak.

If you are following the TKD diet then you really would not need to carb up until you got down to around the 15% bf range, since you are taking in carbs around you workouts which will help keep muscle glycogen levels up. Once you get down around the 15% range then a refeed/carb up would be beneficial in terms of leptin levels and metabolism.

bradley
07-18-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by GhettoSmurf
with a CKD, i've heard that you want to be in ketosis for 10-14 days before your FIRST carb-up. then after that have 1 carb-up during the week. (~6 days keto, ~1 day carb-up, depending on how long your carb-up is)

You should be able to get glycogen levels back up to 100% with a 24-hour carb up, but it is possible to get ~150% of normal levels, which I believe glycogen supercompensatio is the term used to describe this. Glycogen supercompensation should be able to be accomplished with a 36 hour carb up.

STM
07-19-2003, 08:21 AM
Bradley,

Once below the 10% range do you believe refeeds are needed more frequently?

Meaning instead of once a week, maybe once every 4 days?

Thanks

bradley
07-19-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by STM
Once below the 10% range do you believe refeeds are needed more frequently?

Meaning instead of once a week, maybe once every 4 days?


Generally speaking yes, but it would depend on other factors as well. Some of these factors would include degree of calorie deficit and the way you feel overall. What I mean is if you are tired all the time or are staying hungry all the time then you would probably want to have a refeed of some sort. Going by the way your body feels would be a better way to go about refeeding than going strictly by bf%.

Also the length and frequency of your refeeds would probably also come into play. Some people go with shorter more frequent refeeds where as others will go with less frequent longer refeeds.

I would say more than likely 2x a week would be a good idea or maybe every 5th day. There is really no definite answer.:)

STM
07-19-2003, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the info Bradley.

Another question for you.

If I was to refeed say 2 times per week, should the refeeds be a full day? Or perhaps just a few carb meals?

My calorie defecit, not including working, or cardio is about 750 per day. I am running a CKD except for 20g dextrose after workouts (which are every 2nd day).

Any advice?

bradley
07-19-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by STM
If I was to refeed say 2 times per week, should the refeeds be a full day? Or perhaps just a few carb meals?

This would probably be more trial and error. If you were to do shorter refeeds, say 6 hours or so, then you would probably have to refeed more often. Although if you were refeeding for a whole day then you might could get away with going longer between refeeds.

You might try going with one refeed/carb up day (full day) and then a short refeed 4 or 5 days later. Again the timing of the refeed really depends on how you are feeling, etc.



I am running a CKD except for 20g dextrose after workouts (which are every 2nd day).

Any advice?

Pre-workout carbs would be better IMO. When performing a TKD, the whole point of carbs around training is to set yourself up for the next workout, without disrupting ketosis. What I mean is by taking in carbs pre-workout you will still be refilling muscle glycogen, but you will not be disrupting ketosis. At least not as long as you would when taking in post workout carbs.

STM
07-19-2003, 08:15 PM
Excellent info!

I will start with taking the carbs preworkout, might help the intensity as well.

Thank you.