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QueCaptain
07-18-2003, 09:56 PM
Greeting Ladies and Fellas,

First off, I am glad I found this forum, I been reading it for a week or so now and I like the unity that you guys have here and the excellent advice.

OK Advice, I been an athlete all my life (football) but have recently retired to old man status (well 31 years old anyway) and dont play anymore. I have carried 300+ pounds during the last 10 years (give or take a few). 2 months ago I weighed in at 335 and since I am just a "regular guy" now I dont see it necessary to carry this much weight anymore. And being that I have never seen my abs, I thought it would be a nice change of pace to have that as part of my goal.

I have always trained like a powerlifter, so to speak, so my strength is still fairly good (Bench 380lbs for 6-8 reps, Squat 500 for reps, Dead 550 for reps) and I would like to keep to as close of those numbers as possible while cutting down to about 240lbs.(I guess retain muscle mass if that is the correct term)

I been on a form of the Ketogenic Diet now for 7 weeks and Im down to 320lbs (about 21% BF from the conversion chart) with about the same strength (since I have never dieted I guess anything would work now though). My maintence calories per day are 3900, I eat about 3200 in 6 meals (alot of tuna, eggs, canola and flax oil, protein powder) during the week and Alot of rice and protein on the weekends. I been taking Animal Pak for years so I continue with that daily, I also take an ECA during the week 3 times daily and 10 grams creatine and 3 grams Vit C.

I still go to the gym 5 days a week(dunno if I should but I do) (Mon: Chest Tris, Tue: Legs, Wed: Back Bis, Thurs: Shoulders, Fri: Whatever feels is lagging) and do nothing at all on the weekends. I do an hour daily at the track after the gym except on leg day and weekends.

I am a seasoned lifter but this whole diet thing is kinda new to me so any advice would be grand and much appreciated of some things I may need to change, do away with, add, etc.

I guess I would just like to have a better looking body now without sacrificing my strength and current LBM at about 240-245(I hope thats possible). I like being a physically big guy but maybe just a not as big guy:-). I got the love handles from hell and it would ne nice to go outside without a shirt again.
Dont know if you need them but I took my measurements and they are

6' 3" - 320
Neck - 21"
Arm - 20"
Chest - 53"
Waist - 46"
Legs - 32"
Calf - 19" (my calves suck)

thanks guys for any advice you can share. This is a really cool place to hang out, Ill get some pics up when humanly possible (and when I learn how to) so you cant point and laugh.

Thanks Again



:D

JuniorMint6669
07-19-2003, 12:52 AM
Dude! You're huge!! In the good way though ;)

It looks like you've got everything under control just keep up with it. You say you're on a ketogenic diet, but you eat rice on the weekends? So is it a CKD?
As for sups, besides what you are taking, I'd recommend a good multivitamin, but nothing else besides that! Best of luck to you, and welcome to the boards!

bradley
07-19-2003, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by QueCaptain
I been on a form of the Ketogenic Diet now for 7 weeks and Im down to 320lbs (about 21% BF from the conversion chart) with about the same strength (since I have never dieted I guess anything would work now though). My maintence calories per day are 3900, I eat about 3200 in 6 meals (alot of tuna, eggs, canola and flax oil, protein powder) during the week and Alot of rice and protein on the weekends. I been taking Animal Pak for years so I continue with that daily, I also take an ECA during the week 3 times daily and 10 grams creatine and 3 grams Vit C.

What about posting your diet and I am sure you would get some good advice. It sounds as though you are right on track with the diet, and if the keto diet is working for you then I would stick with it.

I noticed that you were taking in carbs over the weekend, but are you carbing up or just incorporating a small amount of carbs in with your weekend meals? With your activity level you should probably be performing some sort of carb up or taking in some sort of preworkout carbs to help keep glycogen levels up.

When performing a CKD (cyclical ketogenic diet), which usually means low carbs during the week and carbs on the weekend. You will probably see the best workout performance the first couple of workouts following the carb up due to the increased glycogen levels, but as the week goes on your endurance and strength could suffer in the gym. What I am saying is that with your above training routine I would lean more towards a targeted ketogenic diet. This would allow you to stick to your current routine, because of the fact that you would be taking in carbs around your training.

In the end it really comes down to calorie balance at the end of the day, but I just wanted to point out some different variations of the keto diet.

Welcome to WBB:)

QueCaptain
07-19-2003, 09:28 AM
Thanks guys,
I guess it would be a CKD (not to familar with names but it is that), Animal Pak is my MultiVit/Mineral.

My diet is as following (I also kill a couple gallons of water daily quite easy so add it in there as well):
Everything is at 2-3 hour intervals

1st Meal
4 egg omelet
1 teaspoon flax
1 tablespoon of canola
1 scoop protein
P/F/C 46/59/3
ECA and 1g Vit C

2nd,3rd,4th Meal
1 can tuna
3 tablespoons canola
˝scoop of protein
P/F/C 43/44/1.5
Animal Pak and 5grams creatine at 2PM
ECA and 1gram Vit C at 4PM

I lift around 5PM for 1.25 to 1.5 hours

5th Meal Immediately after
2 scoop Protein
1 teaspoon flax
2 tablespoons canola
P/F/C 44/6/36.5
ECA 5 grams creatine 1 gram Vit C

Cardio for 1 hour

6th Meal around bedtime (Im normally dead tired around this time so it still hasnt gotten any easier trying to get this one eaten)
4 egg omelet
1 can tuna
3 tablespoons canola
P/F/C 56/0/72

I been scrict on this day in day out for 7 weeks now

I dont really count calories on weekends. I like rice so I eat some of it on weekends and maybe Ill knock off a couple whole chickens. I just am not that hungry anymore (3 large pizzas a weekend was easy) but not sure if my carb intake should be higher. I normally stop around 8PM Sunday Night
I take 1 teaspoon of flax and 1 tablespoon of canola in the morning on weekends and thats it. Daily Animal Pak still. No gym time, I may go walk at the track on Sunday (more just to watch the ladies but I go).

My gym time is still quite intence Monday-Thursday but not to the point of throwing up anymore. I can get quite psyched up to get a good workout, and I normally do. I have no idea if I actually go into ketosis based on that though because I been reading that you should start losing energy by wednesday and I normally flatbottom on Friday.

Most of my fat deposits are around my lower back and the handles from hell. I dont recall ever doing ab work other then warm-ups for football practice, just wondering if I should incorporate it in the program as well.

Thanks Again Guys :)

bradley
07-19-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by QueCaptain
1st Meal
4 egg omelet
1 teaspoon flax
1 tablespoon of canola
1 scoop protein
P/F/C 46/59/3
ECA and 1g Vit C

2nd,3rd,4th Meal
1 can tuna
3 tablespoons canola
˝scoop of protein
P/F/C 43/44/1.5
Animal Pak and 5grams creatine at 2PM
ECA and 1gram Vit C at 4PM

I lift around 5PM for 1.25 to 1.5 hours

5th Meal Immediately after
2 scoop Protein
1 teaspoon flax
2 tablespoons canola
P/F/C 44/6/36.5
ECA 5 grams creatine 1 gram Vit C

Cardio for 1 hour

6th Meal around bedtime (Im normally dead tired around this time so it still hasnt gotten any easier trying to get this one eaten)
4 egg omelet
1 can tuna
3 tablespoons canola
P/F/C 56/0/72

I would probably get rid of the canola oil and go with olive oil or something similar. Canola has usually been processed to a great extent.

Basically you want to get a good ratio of omega 3 fats to omega 6 fats, and then fill in the rest of your daily fat intake with something like olive oil which can be thought of as a neutral fat. Olive oil also contains helpful anti-oxidants. It looks as though you are getting in enough omega 3 fatty acids from the flaxseed oil, although IMO fish oil would be better than the flaxseed oil.

Flaxseed contains ALA which has to be converted to EPA/DHA, which is not an effecient process in the body. Fish oil already contains EPA/DHA so therefore it does not have to be converted.

Most people get plenty of omega 6 fat through their diet so there is really no need to supplement with omega 6 fats.



I dont really count calories on weekends. I like rice so I eat some of it on weekends and maybe Ill knock off a couple whole chickens. I just am not that hungry anymore (3 large pizzas a weekend was easy) but not sure if my carb intake should be higher.

IMO you should probably add more carbs on the weekend so as to make sure that you are refilling your muscle glycogen stores, but then again if what you are doing now is working I would not mess with it too much.

If you want you can read the article on the WBB main page that talks about the CKD or run a search on CKD or cylical ketogenic diet in this forum. You should be able to pull up a lot of information on the specifics of the diet.



Most of my fat deposits are around my lower back and the handles from hell. I dont recall ever doing ab work other then warm-ups for football practice, just wondering if I should incorporate it in the program as well.


Well you can't spot reduce fat, but including some ab and lower back work would be beneficial as far as strengthing your core. The love handles will get smaller as you lose weight, obviously:D

QueCaptain
07-19-2003, 11:41 PM
Thanks Bradley, Ill give it a shot. Ill grab some Olive Oil and Fish Oil for future cutting just for more efficiency. Things are working pretty good right now but even greater specifics is always appreciated.

QueCaptain
07-21-2003, 02:17 PM
Bradley, One more question...
Are my Omega 6 and Omega 3 ratios ok for optimal levels? I just switched Olive Oil and Fish Oil in place for the Canola and Flax, do i need to change the ratios that I take as well or is this all suffice?

Thanks for your vast knowledge

:bow: You Da Man

bradley
07-21-2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by QueCaptain
Bradley, One more question...
Are my Omega 6 and Omega 3 ratios ok for optimal levels? I just switched Olive Oil and Fish Oil in place for the Canola and Flax, do i need to change the ratios that I take as well or is this all suffice?


At a quick glance it looks fine, but how many grams of fish oil are you taking in each day since you switched?

QueCaptain
07-21-2003, 03:31 PM
Well I just switched places with flax so it is equivilent to 2 teaspoons daily 8 grams (8 capsules), one in the morning and one after my workout. All I could find is the capsules but Ill order some oil as I would rather take it that way....Any advantage of capsules over oil (I take 24 pills daily already and would rather not take anymore if I could help it)

bradley
07-21-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by QueCaptain
Well I just switched places with flax so it is equivilent to 2 teaspoons daily 8 grams (8 capsules), one in the morning and one after my workout. All I could find is the capsules but Ill order some oil as I would rather take it that way....Any advantage of capsules over oil (I take 24 pills daily already and would rather not take anymore if I could help it)

Eight grams sounds fine IMO, although it would not hurt to toss in a couple of more since you are larger than the average person.

Either the oil or caps will work fine, and it really comes down to personal preference. I prefer the caps out of convenience because they are easy to take on the go. If you decide to purchase the oil just make sure it is in a glass tinted bottle.