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the doc
07-20-2003, 10:38 AM
Today i tried something different. Lately I have been concerned with cutting and improving cardiovascular health. Therefore I have reduced failure training to once every three days as follows.

day 1 legs
2 cardio
3 rest
4 chest shoulders and back
5 cardio
6 rest
7 arms (including forearms) and abs
8 cardio
9 rest

Today whilst doing some elliptical, I cut it a little short and performed the following circuit

DB bench
OH press
machine row
lat pulldown
tri pulldown
cable curl
ab cruch


went through this circuit 3 x and each was well short of failure
i used ~ 2 min rest in between circuits, and about 10-15 sec in between exercises (just long enough to get set)

Since cardio is very leg intensive, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to substitute some type of sub maximal circuit training (well short of failure) to get the heart rate up and aid in recovery. Now i should note, this would not involve working legs in the circuit since they are getting hit on cardio.

what do you think? Has anyone tried this or something similar?

unshift
07-20-2003, 12:19 PM
don't drop leg exercises, cardio simply isn't enough. i would do some squats, DLs, cleans and jerks, and maybe some snatches for leg day. those lifts aren't really prone to overtraining but are great for the legs (and overall!)

the doc
07-20-2003, 12:23 PM
Yes I agree that those are important but I DO heavy squats and powercleans on leg day (day 1) and HIIT cardio hits the legs pretty hard.

what i am basicly asking is if this circuit is something that i could add onto or substitute for regular cardio work without hurting recovery on the heavy lifts

**edited my first post to add a little more

restless
07-20-2003, 01:12 PM
Are you doing higher reps?

the doc
07-20-2003, 01:17 PM
for the circuit yes, reps are around 10 and well short of failure but on my regular training days (1, 4, 7) I train heavy and to failure

restless
07-20-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by the doc
for the circuit yes, reps are around 10 and well short of failure but on my regular training days (1, 4, 7) I train heavy and to failure

I think I might try that too in one week when I start training again. At least it's not as boring as cardio and it's one way to increase your activity level hopefully without increasing neural fatigue to much. Keep us posted on how that goes.

the doc
07-21-2003, 08:52 AM
Restless, those were some of the reasons that led me to try this. Hopefully it will not be to much work.

Let you know how it goes

JuniorMint6669
07-21-2003, 10:41 AM
Im not sure if this is what you are talking about... but Ive switched one of my HIIT Stairclimber days to a HIIT chest/back day...

I do things like speed bench and speed chins at about 40-50% weight, lotsa reps, lotsa speed. I figured, at the least, it will help burn somes cals without wearing my legs out. At best, maybe I can carry over some strength to my lifts ala westside dynamic workout/

Manveet
07-21-2003, 10:46 AM
Personally I think it's a good idea doc. It's actually quite similiar to the way I'm doing my 15's for HST right now. Sub failure, moving rather quickly from excercise to excercise.

the doc
07-21-2003, 02:40 PM
appreciate the feedback fellas.

manveet, do you feel it is working well for you?

Junior, yes that is kinda what i am talking about. I hadn't thought about it from a speed perspective, but that may have some additional benefits in terms of neural training

ElPietro
07-21-2003, 03:02 PM
For your circuit, you could even go to one set of 20 or more for each bodypart. This would be more of an active recovery workout/feeder workout, and so long as you go through the circuit pretty quickly you'll gain some cardiovascular benefits as well.

I'm going to start implementing a feeder workout on tuesdays and thursdays to aid in recovery from monday and wednesday workouts. They will only take maybe 10 minutes to do, and then the rest will be cardio and stretching.

Stretching also can have the same affect.

ElPietro
07-21-2003, 03:03 PM
Oh, sorry, I think you meant to use these as your main workouts eh? And train to failure every now and then? The feeder work I was speaking of would be more of a supplemental workout.

the doc
07-21-2003, 03:59 PM
no peter i meant to use them as a supp as you mentioned in your first post. I actually like the 20 rep idea the more i think about it

Manveet
07-21-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by the doc
appreciate the feedback fellas.

manveet, do you feel it is working well for you?

Junior, yes that is kinda what i am talking about. I hadn't thought about it from a speed perspective, but that may have some additional benefits in terms of neural training

It's been working extremely well. Never had my heart rate get up so high for the entire duration of a workout. Although I'm bulking right now, I'll definately be following this type of training when I begin my cut.

Y2A
07-24-2003, 03:12 PM
Would bodyweight exercises work for this type of training? Push-ups, pullups, squats, crunches, etc?

restless
07-24-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Y2A
Would bodyweight exercises work for this type of training? Push-ups, pullups, squats, crunches, etc?

Sure. As long as you manage to raise your hearth rate most or all of the time.

the doc
07-26-2003, 07:51 PM
i think basicly we need to be well short of failure if we're going to continue to train very heavy

the doc
07-31-2003, 09:03 AM
bump...
wanted to update for those interested. I've been doing this circuit now for a little while, and i have noticed no problems/interference with my heavy/failure lifting days. In fact I have progressed in 2-3 reps sets whilst on this regimen

WillKuenzel
07-31-2003, 09:05 AM
Are you doing the above circuit on those cardio days you've listed while still maintaing your normal split?

the doc
07-31-2003, 12:39 PM
yeah HY, only on the cardio days. I have not had to change my heavy lifting routine/split and am not feeling overtrained at all