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JohnnyAutoParts
07-21-2003, 05:02 PM
For the first time since I entered the fitness game, I have a job where keeping an ideal diet seems to be difficult. I must be out of the house by 7:45AM and I won't get home until after 6. My goal is to eat 5-6 healthy meals a day with reasonable macronutrient ratios.

Breakfast: I want something I can prepare quick b/c I don't want to be waking up at 5:30AM. I want to have breakfast cooked and eaten within a maximum range of 45 minutes. I am thinking of making a handful of hardboiled eggs at the beginning of the week. 4 each morning (2 yolks) and 3/4 cup oatmeal. Problem is oatmeal takes 10 minutes to cool, and I can't eat it fast for some reason. 1tbspn of olive oil

10AM snack: I want something that I can eat in front of co-workers without looking like I've just decided to take an early supper. i.e. steak and potato is out. I am thinking of having a Pro Complex bar here, but whats a good snack to get some fats and/or carbs in as well?

1PM: lunch: sandwich on ww bread or can of tuna...this shouldn't be much different than what I usually brought to my old job as my 'lunch'. Peanuts as a snack.

4PM snack: need something quick because I won't be home until 6...I don't want to eat 2 bars in the same day...I need ideas here

6:30PM supper: no brainer

9:30PM probably natty pb, an ultra met w/milk, ww bread, cottage cheese.


PROBLEMS:

1. I will be sick of eating the same stuff everyday.
2. Impossible to get Fiberous Carbs and Healthy Fats from cafe, so I will spend hours prepping foods with little room for relaxation.
3. The fridge is about 100 yards away so I would prefer to pack a lunch I could store at room temperature (i.e. no mayo with tuna).

What do you guys think of my plans? For those of you who have been or continue to be in this type of situation, let me know how you handle it and hit me up with any advice that you feel I would find helpful. Thanks

as0l0
07-21-2003, 05:43 PM
just eat normally, make your food the night before, put it in the fridge at work, people at work couldn't care less what you eat and when. if they do, just tell the truth, might convert them over.

i think your making something out of nothing.

JohnnyAutoParts
07-21-2003, 06:45 PM
bro, have you ever worked at a new, respectable job before? you don't just leave the place at ten o'clock for 25 minutes and eat a meal...this is big time. Its hard enough to keep a clean diet in general, nevermind when you have limitations.

Berserker
07-21-2003, 06:58 PM
Most places you can bring a lunch pail or have a fridge in the office. Also your over estimating how much time for breakfast. put a pan on the stove with some meat and another warming up, jump in the shower. Get out flip the meat and throw on some eggs. Make something the nigh before and nuke. Doesn't have to be eggs. Make a hamburger.
Hard boiled eggs are good, I do this, you do have to peel them though.
Sometimes my snacks get meals are late, but you can do it. Stay away from the vending machines. Milk is the best choice if they got it.
Just takes some planning the night before.

Berserker
07-21-2003, 06:58 PM
If no fridge mix protein powder with water.

Holto
07-21-2003, 07:13 PM
there have been quite a few studies posted lately that have convinced me that 5-6 meals may not be considerably better than 3 meals

just wanted to throw that out there


Originally posted by JohnnyAutoParts
Breakfast: I take a protein shake before and after breakfast and eat whole grain toast with natty pb while I drive to work

10AM snack: ground oatmeal with protein powder and healthy oil of some sort (flax,olive ect..)

1PM: lunch: if you get a good breakfast and good lunch thats all that matters, I would try to get a high cal lunch

4PM snack: see above

6:30PM supper: no brainer

9:30PM probably natty pb, an ultra met w/milk, ww bread, cottage cheese.


PROBLEMS:

3. The fridge is about 100 yards away

*** this is not a problem unless taking 30 seconds to retrieve something out of it is that big of a deal

I know what you are saying about the job being new but don't sweat the first few weeks

meaning don't be too worried about your diet until you get things figured out

Berserker
07-21-2003, 07:26 PM
If I couldn't get any snacks I would go with a big ass gut busting breakfast,followed by Thanksgiving style lunch.

JohnnyAutoParts
07-21-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Berserker
Most places you can bring a lunch pail or have a fridge in the office. Also your over estimating how much time for breakfast. put a pan on the stove with some meat and another warming up, jump in the shower. Get out flip the meat and throw on some eggs. Make something the nigh before and nuke. Doesn't have to be eggs. Make a hamburger.
Hard boiled eggs are good, I do this, you do have to peel them though.
Sometimes my snacks get meals are late, but you can do it. Stay away from the vending machines. Milk is the best choice if they got it.
Just takes some planning the night before.

Yeah, for some reason i've always felt like i have to have either eggs or oatmeal for my first meal. When you think about it, there is no real logic behind it...only tradition. I am awful at peeling eggs...never comes off smooth.

JohnnyAutoParts
07-21-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by Holto
there have been quite a few studies posted lately that have convinced me that 5-6 meals may not be considerably better than 3 meals

just wanted to throw that out there



I know what you are saying about the job being new but don't sweat the first few weeks

meaning don't be too worried about your diet until you get things figured out


Thanks Holto, good advice. Its just that I've been eating good lately and a couple bad days make me feel like my physique is going to wither away...hopefully its all mental. Do you have a link to any of these studies? Man, 3 meals would make my life a lot easier!!!

as0l0
07-21-2003, 08:22 PM
bro, have you ever worked at a new, respectable job before? you don't just leave the place at ten o'clock for 25 minutes and eat a meal...this is big time. Its hard enough to keep a clean diet in general, nevermind when you have limitations.

mate, I have worked in MANY corporate environments. in fact I'm working in one right now as I post this reply..eating my grilled chicken at my desk...at 10 am....

bradley
07-22-2003, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by JohnnyAutoParts
Do you have a link to any of these studies? Man, 3 meals would make my life a lot easier!!!

Here ya go:) You can also run a search in the diet and nutrition forum and find some helpful info on this topic as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8383639&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8399092&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1905998&dopt=Abstract

bradley
07-22-2003, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by JohnnyAutoParts
Breakfast: I want something I can prepare quick b/c I don't want to be waking up at 5:30AM. I want to have breakfast cooked and eaten within a maximum range of 45 minutes. I am thinking of making a handful of hardboiled eggs at the beginning of the week. 4 each morning (2 yolks) and 3/4 cup oatmeal. Problem is oatmeal takes 10 minutes to cool, and I can't eat it fast for some reason. 1tbspn of olive oil

Cooking eggs a couple days in advance is a good idea, and I do this quite often. Also no need to cook the oats unless you prefer them cooked, but I sometimes cook them and then throw them in the fridge while I get a shower.

You could also use egg substitutes instead of boiled eggs, which can be cooked in the microwave. Also whole grain cereal such as Kashi, etc. would be a good alternative to oats.


I am awful at peeling eggs...never comes off smooth.

Try taking a spoon and flipping it over and using the tip of the spoon to get under the membrane of the egg. When flipped over the sppon will conform with the shape of the egg (I hope that make sense:scratch: ) It works much better IMO than using your fingers to peel the eggs, and you don't end up pulling off half the white trying to peel the egg.:)



10AM snack: I want something that I can eat in front of co-workers without looking like I've just decided to take an early supper. i.e. steak and potato is out. I am thinking of having a Pro Complex bar here, but whats a good snack to get some fats and/or carbs in as well?

Peanut butter sandwich on whole wheat bread would work, or maybe a protein shake along with some nuts or a piece of fruit.



4PM snack: need something quick because I won't be home until 6...I don't want to eat 2 bars in the same day...I need ideas here


Same thing as last snack, or maybe have a protein bar here. I used to eat beef jerky every now and then for a high protein snack, along with some nuts or a piece of fruit. The only drawback to the beef jerky is the sodium content.



1. I will be sick of eating the same stuff everyday.


With a little planning you should be able to vary your diet to some extent. Just have to be a little creative with your food choices, and if you have access to a microwave you could at least fix yourself something different for lunch each day.



2. Impossible to get Fiberous Carbs and Healthy Fats from cafe, so I will spend hours prepping foods with little room for relaxation.


Most all cafes have salads, and they usually have some sort of vinegar and oil dressing that you coud use.



3. The fridge is about 100 yards away so I would prefer to pack a lunch I could store at room temperature (i.e. no mayo with tuna).


You could at least store your lunch in there, seeing as how at most jobs you get some sort of lunch break.

Y2A
07-22-2003, 07:18 AM
Make a couple meat or natty PB sandwiches on ww bread for mid morning/mid-afternoon breaks and some type of meat and vegetables at lunch (or something). People take coffee/cigarette breaks during the day, so it shouldnt be that big of a deal to take a few minutes to eat :)

dirty-c
07-22-2003, 08:08 AM
My recommendation depends on the "corporate" environment in which you work. I've worked in fairly demanding corporate environments, and ones where all everyone did was surf the internet all day (kinda like I'm doing now :) )

As for cheap, easy snacks, I recommend hard boiled eggs. Even if the fridge is a bit of a walk (5 minutes), I can eat 4 hardboilded eggs in like 4 minutes easy. Quick and clean, zero prep-time. Can't beat that. I know what you mean about feeling like a jerk eating at your desk. I also know that most people won't care. As long as you don't have your feet propped up on the desk at the same time, and you appear to be working (which I can do while eating anyway).

Best of luck w/ the new job.

Paul Stagg
07-22-2003, 08:15 AM
I've been a corporate fellow since I got out of college - and spent a couple of years not only working all day, but going to school at night to get my masters.

I started out lifting/eating right when I was a CSR - I was tied to a phone all day. I had no trouble at all... your co-workers will get used to your morning tuna.

Everyone is expected to take a break every couple of hours for 10 minutes or so (when do you think smokers smoke?) - use that time to run to the fridge/microwave and get your food. Bring it back and eat at your desk while you work.

I ate leftovers, tuna, lots of sandwiches, nuts, etc, etc. I also relyed on MRPs and bars.

Now life is easy, 'cause I'm a 'professional'- no time clock or any such thing - I just do what i want.

Do what you gotta do, and don't worry too much. As long as your work performance is good, no one will care when you eat.

WillKuenzel
07-22-2003, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
I started out lifting/eating right when I was a CSR - I was tied to a phone all day. I had no trouble at all... your co-workers will get used to your morning tuna.

Everyone is expected to take a break every couple of hours for 10 minutes or so (when do you think smokers smoke?) - use that time to run to the fridge/microwave and get your food. Bring it back and eat at your desk while you work.

I ate leftovers, tuna, lots of sandwiches, nuts, etc, etc. I also relyed on MRPs and bars.

Do what you gotta do, and don't worry too much. As long as your work performance is good, no one will care when you eat.
That's exactly what I do. Nobody really minds as long as the work gets done and typically people don't bother you too much when they see food in front of you so it might also be a little added bonus.

j. mo
07-23-2003, 04:48 PM
JohnnyAutoParts I share your pain. I have been in the corporate world for 12 months (working as an I banker). I work 70 plus hours a week on a regular basis. My first 6 months I didn't plan right and lost a ton of weight (20 lbs). Since then I have figured out how to make it work. Here are a list of time saving tips that will help, most cost a little more, but that is the price of convience:

1. The same company that makes egg beaters also makes liquid egg whites. You can have a plate of egg whites in under 5 minutes
2. Instead of oatmeal try cereal, it is super quick.
3. Mid-morning and mid-afternoon I reccomend a MRP and some nuts or Omega-3 caps instead of a solid meal. I know it is not the same thing as eating a regular meal, but that is the sacrifice that you make.
4. If you want you mid-morning and mid-afternoon shake to be even more hearty I reccomend that you use a blender the night before and add in milk, a banana, some frozen strawberries as well as 1 packet of an MRP.

It is not hard to maintain a good diet in the corporate world. In fact, in some senses it is easier since you are already on a schedule.

good luck,

j. mo

jugheadkills
07-24-2003, 04:22 PM
I wake up at 5:10AM every morning, work starts at 6AM. Shower, make some eggs, pack up some tuna and bread, hit the road.

geoffgarcia
07-24-2003, 09:11 PM
ditto what everyone else said about the job, its so not a big deal.

My diet:
Breakfast,
Cereal-Kashi GoLean
or
prepared (night before) fake eggs
_______________________
morning snack
yogurt
_________________________
early lunch
cup chicken, .6cup mixed veggies, .6cup brown rice
____________________
late lunch
turkey+cheese sandwich
________________________
workout+protein shake
______________________
dinner
____________________
late night
either protein shake or turkey+cheese sandwich


I'd stay away from tuna because of the mercury....lemme change that, stay FAR away from tuna

ftotti10
07-25-2003, 03:07 AM
Also in a similar corporate job,
8 am: Cereal with milk +1 scoop whey blended with milk
10.30am: 4 slices toast + Plated of Baked Beans (canteen)
1 pm: Turkey + Ham sandwich
3.30 pm: Turkey and Cheese sandwich

This gives me a nice blend of protein and carbs throughout the working day. I bring the 3.30pm sandwich with me to work and eat it at my desk as I work.

Its been working well for me.

ftotti10
07-25-2003, 03:16 AM
Hey Bradley, I just read the study. Now I normally agree with everything you say but I just want ask you if a study on moderatley obese women should be applied to healthy hard training athletes like ourselves .
I mean these women being obese would probably have fairly slow metabolisms and the demands for constant insulin and energy levels would not be that great.
Whatever about there not being too much of a difference in fat loss (which I would challenge if the same test had been done on healthy athletes) but would the demand for constant energy and controlled insulin levels throughout the day not make 5 or 6 meals better for most people on here.

bradley
07-25-2003, 05:34 AM
ftotti10-

Here are a few threads that address the questions that you are referring to. I would be glad to discuss the topic further if you do have questions after reading through these threads:)

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33842&highlight=meal+frequency

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33627&highlight=meal+frequency

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32700&highlight=meal+frequency

ftotti10
07-25-2003, 07:53 AM
Bradley, thanks for the links.
I will admit that from a fat burning perspective there may not be that much of a difference between 3 meals and 6 meals a day. However I do feel that 6 meals a day will provide weight trainers with other benefits that 3 meals a day may not do as well, specifically in the example of when someone is trying to lose fat without losing lean body mass, or putting on fat free muscle mass.

The key is net dietary protein utilization by the body. This is where we attempt to channel as much of our dietary protein intake towards anabolic pathways within the body.
As we become leaner via cardio and calorie restriction, it is more likely that dietary protein will be used to meet energy needs and not grow muscle. If we restrict calorie intake severely, dietary proteins are easily metabolized for energy production, and not used to stimulate muscle growth. This unwanted process becomes more prominent the leaner a person becomes.

Blood glucose and insulin levels need to be maintained as constant as possible throughout the day and night. Keeping blood glucose at a steady-state is the objective here. I’m not talking about triggering high insulin secretion, rather it is a matter of keeping insulin and blood glucose within a very narrow physiological range. This narrow range ensures nutrient transport into muscle is uninterrupted, while cortisol secretion is inhibited. This manipulation of insulin secretion ensures that your dietary protein is directed towards anabolism and away from being utilized as a fuel source. The best way to do this is to to consume smaller more frequent meals during the day.

Holto
07-25-2003, 09:41 AM
ftotti10:

interesting post

I await Bradley's response

what I take from that research is that if the best we can do is 4 meals and a shake or 4 meals and two shakes than that is as good as 5+ meals

I don't think anyone who (beleives) in that research will take it as far as reco'ing 3 meals be the only time to get nutrients

bradley
07-25-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by ftotti10
The key is net dietary protein utilization by the body. This is where we attempt to channel as much of our dietary protein intake towards anabolic pathways within the body.
As we become leaner via cardio and calorie restriction, it is more likely that dietary protein will be used to meet energy needs and not grow muscle. If we restrict calorie intake severely, dietary proteins are easily metabolized for energy production, and not used to stimulate muscle growth. This unwanted process becomes more prominent the leaner a person becomes.

While I have not seen any proof that this would be the case, you also have to take into account that when at rest fat will be the primary fuel source and not protein. The body has a tremendous amount of energy stored in the form of fat, and this is the case for lean individuals as well.

Another thing that comes to mind is the free amino acid pool in the body, which is highly regulated. If you were to take into account that a whole food meal that contains protein will take an extended amount of time to be digested/absorbed which would replace any AAs lost in the free amino acid pool and would also supply a constant stream of AAs to refill any AAs that are lost between meals. This is the whole reason that whey protein is not an ideal protein source, except for pre/post workout nutrition.



Blood glucose and insulin levels need to be maintained as constant as possible throughout the day and night. Keeping blood glucose at a steady-state is the objective here. I’m not talking about triggering high insulin secretion, rather it is a matter of keeping insulin and blood glucose within a very narrow physiological range. This narrow range ensures nutrient transport into muscle is uninterrupted, while cortisol secretion is inhibited. This manipulation of insulin secretion ensures that your dietary protein is directed towards anabolism and away from being utilized as a fuel source. The best way to do this is to to consume smaller more frequent meals during the day.

I would have to disagree with the theory presented above. The actions of glucagon and insulin will help ensure that blood sugar remains in the desired range, hence the bodies desire to remain in homestasis.

While insulin is anti-catabolic it will also hinder fat burning which would not be ideal if the ultimate goal is the loss of bf. As far as cortisol I have not seen anything that would indicate that it becomes a major concern as far as meal frequency is concerned.

Studies have also shown that less frequent feedings improve protein synthesis, as opposed to more frequent feedings. Although I agree that this is really not an issue and unless you are eating every hour is not significant in the grand scheme of things. I believe I posted that study in one of the other threads but I can dig it up if you like:)

ftotti10
07-25-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by bradley


you also have to take into account that when at rest fat will be the primary fuel source and not protein. The body has a tremendous amount of energy stored in the form of fat, and this is the case for lean individuals as well.


I agree this is true in a normal person, but in the case of a calorie restricted, heavy training athlete with a high demand for nutirents
the body’s first priority is to maintain homeostasis by replenishing the lost energy and amino acids stores. To do this your body will draw upon whatever nutrients enter energy pathways the quickest and easiest. Glucose (muscle glycogen) is always the preferred fuel. Chemically it is easiest to put straight into energy pathways. If both muscle and liver glycogen levels are low, then protein, in the form of amino acids, and fat molecules will be metabolized.

Fat needs a lot of chemical work to be utilized, but muscle amino acids enter energy pathways very easily. Muscle will always release its amino acids for energy processes when other sources are low.

And one other thing, physiologically, fat can only be burned in a ‘carbohydrate flame’ - in the presence of carbohydrate. You need carbohydrates to burn fat. If the availibility of carbs is low then fat burning has less of a chance of happening.

aka23
07-25-2003, 02:01 PM
I doubt that more than 4 meals will make much difference in terms of protein utilization and lean body maintenence, assuming the meals are balanced (contain carbs + protein) and contain typical protein sources (not whey), as well as proper pre/post workout nutrition. Three probably could work as well on non-workout days, if the meals were spaced out and chosen well.

If the meals are not properly chosen, then more meals may be helpful. For example, the study at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10838463&dopt=Abstract involved police officers who ate 4 meals a day with 50% of the protien coming from either casein or whey supplements. The casein group gained about twice as much muscle as the whey group over the 12-week study. I believe that one of the main reasons for the difference was the quick digestion/absorbtion of they whey, and that if the whey group had consumed more than 4 meals they would have seen better muscle gains.

I believe that eating more than three meals helps maintain blood glucose levels and avoid assoicated insulin spikes. As the amount of carbohydrate increases, the blood sugar spike usually also increases. Measures such as GI use a fixed quantity of carb. When larger quanities are consumed of foods with the same GI are eaten, there is a larger blood sugar reaction. This would be especially true for weightlifters who have large calorie intakes. Smaller meals may also help with cholesterol, appetite, body fat levels, and offer other health benefits. Some studies and analysis of studies with references that support this conclusion are linked below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8438781&dopt=Abstract
http://www.doctoryourself.com/nibbling.html
http://www.foodandhealth.com/cpecourses/snack.php
http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/30/meals.htm

Manveet
07-25-2003, 02:13 PM
Here's something to consider for breakfast

1-2 scoops whey
2 cups 1% milk
3oz of oats
2 tbsp of olive oil

bradley
07-25-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by ftotti10
I agree this is true in a normal person, but in the case of a calorie restricted, heavy training athlete with a high demand for nutirents the body’s first priority is to maintain homeostasis by replenishing the lost energy and amino acids stores. To do this your body will draw upon whatever nutrients enter energy pathways the quickest and easiest. Glucose (muscle glycogen) is always the preferred fuel.

I disagree with the above statement, and as the link below indicates while at rest fat is the primary fuel source.

http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Substrates.html

Glucagon is repsonsible for maintaining blood sugar levels through the breakdown of liver glycogen and once liver glycogen stores become depleted fat will be mobilized for energy, not muscle glycogen.

Muscle glycogen will not be used (to any significant degree) while at rest, hence the whole idea behind the CKD/TKD diets etc. If muscle glycogen was the primary source of fuel for the body these diets would not work because you would become depleted before being able to begin complete your training sessions.



Chemically it is easiest to put straight into energy pathways. If both muscle and liver glycogen levels are low, then protein, in the form of amino acids, and fat molecules will be metabolized.


Yes, but this is a different scenario. If you are consuming 3+ mixed meals per day you are not going to have to worry about low glycogen levels. This is why you would not want to consume only 2 meals per day but as long as you are getting in at least 3 then I have no reason to believe that any significant amount of LBM losses will occur. This is of course assuming that over the course of those 3 meals you are taking in adequate protein and EFAs.



Fat needs a lot of chemical work to be utilized, but muscle amino acids enter energy pathways very easily. Muscle will always release its amino acids for energy processes when other sources are low.

The mobiliazation of fat for energy would be a more effecient process than the conversion of protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis.



And one other thing, physiologically, fat can only be burned in a ‘carbohydrate flame’ - in the presence of carbohydrate. You need carbohydrates to burn fat. If the availibility of carbs is low then fat burning has less of a chance of happening. [/B]

While I understand what you are saying the above statement is not completely accurate. While fat will still be utilized by the body but if carbohydrates are not present the Kreb's Cycle will not work so instead of being completely oxidized the fat will be converted into ketones instead.

If the above statement was true then the ketogenic diet would not be very effective.

ftotti10
07-25-2003, 04:35 PM
Bradley, thanks for taking the time to develop and debate some of the theories I put forward. You ceratinly have your homework done. Its always good to get the other side of every theory.

ftotti10
07-25-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by bradley



The mobiliazation of fat for energy would be a more effecient process than the conversion of protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis.


If this is the case does that mean that you are an advocate of morning cardio on an empty stomach??

bradley
07-25-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by ftotti10


If this is the case does that mean that you are an advocate of morning cardio on an empty stomach??

IMO calorie balance at the end of the day is the primary factor that determines weight loss, unless of course you are trying to get rid of that last little bit of bf. If that is the case then morning cardio "might" be appropriate.

Morning cardio on an empty stomach will mobilize more fatty acids, but as exercise intensity and duration increases you will increase the risk of muscle catabolism which is not ideal.:)

The statement that you quoted was more in relation to energy utilization at rest.

ftotti10
07-25-2003, 05:22 PM
Bradley, I know we have kinda moved on from the original point which was, which meal frequency is best. Can I ask you a couple of questions to see if you agree with me

1. the key to fat loss is increasing your metabolic rate
2. the two voluntary ways to achieve this are eating and exercising

Can I point you towards a specific study concerning metabolic rate with regard to meal consumption. The study was carried out at Georgia State University.

The scientists discovered from the nutritional analyses of over 60 elite athletes that the athletes who ate at least six meals a day almost always possessed the lowest body fat percentage. The link between leanness and meal frequency was so apparent that the lead scientist, Dr Dan Benardot, recommends that people who want to get lean and stay lean should increase their meal frequency, so that at least six low fat meals are consumed throughout the day.

I'm not trying to persuade you, in fact in the whole scheme of things I think either way there is not too much of a differnce between 3meals or 6 meals. Im pointing you to this study because I know you will find it interesting.

Holto
07-25-2003, 10:40 PM
in light of the other studies I would like to see that

do you have a title or a link?

could you post the abstract

bradley
07-26-2003, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by ftotti10
1. the key to fat loss is increasing your metabolic rate


While increasing your metabolic rate would help with fat loss, I believe that keeping your metabolic rate from falling would be a more accurate statement. The effects of a calorie deficit on metabolic rate are well documented and when necessary performing refeeds, taking time off of your diet, etc. may be helpful in accomplishing this.



2. the two voluntary ways to achieve this are eating and exercising

While exercising will definitely increase your metabolic rate, eating on the other hand will help to keep it from falling. What I am referring to is the fact that I would consider eating as a way to prevent your metabolic rate from falling. If you were to go for an extended amount of time without eating (example skip breakfast) then your metabolic rate would be more likely to decrease.

Don't get me wrong your metabolic rate does increase after eating but if you were to eat two 250 calorie meals or one 500 calorie meals your metabolic rate would still be the same. What I mean is that metabolic rate would increase 2x as much after the 500 calorie meal as opposed to the 250 calorie meal. This is why the frequency of feedings is not going to make much of a difference as far as energy expenditure goes.



Can I point you towards a specific study concerning metabolic rate with regard to meal consumption. The study was carried out at Georgia State University.

The scientists discovered from the nutritional analyses of over 60 elite athletes that the athletes who ate at least six meals a day almost always possessed the lowest body fat percentage. The link between leanness and meal frequency was so apparent that the lead scientist, Dr Dan Benardot, recommends that people who want to get lean and stay lean should increase their meal frequency, so that at least six low fat meals are consumed throughout the day.

http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=1863

I though the above sounded like some AST article;) I really take everything on that website with a grain of salt so to speak. They do not provide any references to back up their statements, and I was unable to locate any abstracts using the information provided. Without knowing the details of the study I would be unable to offer any opinions.

Although one question does come to mind:

Is the Dr. Benardot making a case for appetite control? I agree that more frequent meals can help as far as appetite control goes.



I'm not trying to persuade you, in fact in the whole scheme of things I think either way there is not too much of a differnce between 3meals or 6 meals. Im pointing you to this study because I know you will find it interesting.

Always interested in reading new articles, theories, etc.:)

aka23
07-26-2003, 07:46 AM
I suspect the study the AST article is referring to is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10731010&dopt=Abstract . This study compared the number and magnitude of hourly energy defictis to body composition. More frequent meals resulted in smaller/fewer hourly energy deficits. The athletes with smaller/fewer hourly energy deficits had lower body fat levels. Bernadot's comments about the study and its relationship to frequent meals are listed towared the bottom of the page at http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSWCT000/333/343/275699.html I posted a link to a description of a study that found similar results earlier -- ( http://www.doctoryourself.com/nibbling.html , Fabry) .

I would be interested to know the total daily calories consumed in each of these studies. They may have found that frequent meals help control appetite, resulting in fewer daily calories, as Bradley suggested.

bradley
07-26-2003, 08:07 AM
Taken from the article posted by aka23(http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSWCT000/333/343/275699.html)


"Because the study was designed primarily as a 24-hour review, it did not measure possible body fat or weight changes as a result of repeated days of light eating coupled with nights of heavy eating."

This alone is enough for me to doubt the relevance of the study, seeing as how numerous more well-designed studies have found that meal frequency is not that big of an issue, as it relates to fat loss, energy expenditure.

A more well designed study would have to be conducted with a fixed calorie intake and the athletes would need to be tracked over a longer period of time.

Also I would be interested to see if the athletes that were eating six meals per day experienced any changes in body composition if they were to eat 3 meals per day (assuming total calorie intake remains the same).

Holto
07-26-2003, 11:09 AM
good thread guys

just more confirmation to me that this 5-6 meals is nothing more than dogma based on the theory of revving up your metabolism

JohnnyAutoParts
07-28-2003, 06:11 PM
I just wanted to thank everyone for their input!!! I havent been able to browse the boards for a few days, but I was pleased to find so many responses to my thread! Some very very interesting posts...especially challenging the 5-6 meal plan, because it has gone virtually unchallenged in modern circles.

Like Paul, I will be going to grad school at night to get my Masters...if I think keeping my diet up now is tough, I can only imagine what it will be like then.