Everything Happens For A Reason?

[Maki Riddington]

Certain things occur in our lives which in turn down the road can have a impact on us in a certain way.

Do you believe this?

[Sun]

No. I think it's horse ****. I don't think any of it is God's "master plan" either, as religious as I am (Surprise!).

I think it's just a case of getting ****ed. Pardon the tongue, this subject makes me a bit angry. :D

[Cackerot69]

Of course everything happens for a reason...

Cause and effect ;)

[Sun]

Cause: Powerman got drunk.
Effect: Powerman put his hand through a brick wall.

*snicker*

[Maki Riddington]

Sun=Angry:mad:

Take some kava kava bro.

[Cackerot69]

Your mom dies.

It's ok everything happens for a reason.

Reason - train ran her over.

[PowerManDL]

Originally posted by Sun
Cause: Powerman got drunk.
Effect: Powerman put his hand through a brick wall.

*snicker*

It was wood. And that bitch really pissed me off, with her sluttiness.

[Pup]

I think everything happens for a reason, sorry, but i do believe in God's master plan, i think we have a destiny, but life is what we make it, we can't just sit back and expect good stuff to happen to us, we have to reach for the stars, grab em by the neck, and choke em til we get what we want.

[Sun]

Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Sun=Angry:mad:

Take some kava kava bro.

Correct.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by Cackerot69
Your mom dies.

It's ok everything happens for a reason.

Reason - train ran her over.


*** It's not that simple.

[PowerManDL]

I believe in an order to things-- I'm not a "religious" person, but I am spiritual. My beliefs are heavily influenced by Buddhist and Taoist philosophy; I believe there is an order to things, but that order is as much influenced by what we do as much as it is by the "totality."

In other words, the "divine plan" is only the ladder. We have to actually climb it.

[Cackerot69]

Sure it is, Maki.

[Maki Riddington]

Life isn't simple............

[Cackerot69]

Ok Maki.

The god of the heavens with all his almighty power dictates the outcome of our lives. What we conciously decide to do and the outcome of these decisions is truly just a conspiracy developed by god himself to control our lives.

Do you feel better now, Maki?

[Belial]

I don't believe in fate, destiny, or a supreme being of any sort. (Sorry cack ;) )

I was never brought up to have any faith, and quite honestly the entire idea of a higher power never intrigued me enough, or seemed feasible/realistic/likely enough to even remotely convince me.

*shrugs*

[Mystic Eric]

i have a few views on this:

1. if our lives were pre-determined, and things happened for a reason, then that means we would have little or no control of our lives. no matter what we did, what we wanted, it wouldn't matter 'cause you're gonna eventually end up on the same road you were deteremined to be...

2. i am a believer of god. but if we did have control of what happens, how much control would we have?

3. we could sit here and ponder for years and years, but we would never know. such statements are metaphysical.

so here i stand, lost, and confused about life.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by Cackerot69
Ok Maki.

The god of the heavens with all his almighty power dictates the outcome of our lives. What we conciously decide to do and the outcome of these decisions is truly just a conspiracy developed by god himself to control our lives.

Do you feel better now, Maki?


*** Who said anything about God???
If thats how you feel more power to you.

[PowerManDL]

I take the stance that there is a greater power out there-- but its not the personal God that Jewish, Christian, and Islamic beliefs espouse.

I believe in the gnostic deity, the deity that is as much a part of us as we are of it-- the glass of water immersed in the ocean, for an analogy. Two distinct things, but you can't really define where one ends and the other begins.

To that end, this "being's" involvement with us is much the same. It operates through us, moves us, but it doesn't entirely control us, just as the currents of the ocean could direct the glass, but don't entirely determine its course.

[Cackerot69]

Cause and effect.

I don't believe in god. I won't say there isn't a god. But, I ain't convinced...and I really don't care either way.

[syntekz]

I'm with Cack. I don't feel like I need to believe in something "higher up." Without proof, why should I?

[PowerManDL]

I believe because I can feel its power.

The source of what I feel is debatable, and I certainly understand the skeptic's viewpoint.

But regardless, it gives me a greater sense of purpose and meaning to believe its there. Verifiable or not, its my guide and source of what I am.

I refuse to disregard that for anything.

[Mystic Eric]

Originally posted by MuscleAuthority
I'm with Cack. I don't feel like I need to believe in something "higher up." Without proof, why should I?

i was just wondering, cack, and muscle, how do you feel we came about? i'm waiting for an answer 'cause i have a response already :)

[Sun]

Originally posted by MuscleAuthority
I'm with Cack. I don't feel like I need to believe in something "higher up." Without proof, why should I?

That is part of the context of the word "faith" in religion.

[Spiderman]

*reads and sees no mention of the phrase "Free Will"* :confused:

Man, you people sometimes....lol. God does have an a plan for us, that I believe. But He also gave us Free Will...i.e. the power to make our own decisions in life. This is what ultimately affects us. IMO, if you go through life not believing, not caring and just making decisions, then yes, your life may turn out get ****ed up. (as Sun so bluntly put it). However, IMO, once you turn to God and put your faith in Him, then not only will your life start to get better, but you'll be at peace more, and feel more content with your life. You'll also have someone you know you can talk to about it and who'll really know how you feel. ;)

[Belial]

Originally posted by the terminator


i was just wondering, cack, and muscle, how do you feel we came about? i'm waiting for an answer 'cause i have a response already :)

Evolution? Primordial soup? Creation of extremely simple carbon molecules and primitive viral organisms from a mixture of a carbon-rich planet and volatile environment with plenty of stimuli for molecule creation and rearrangement?

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

NO.

[kAto]

i think its a irresponsible way of rationalizing, its just a way for "idiots" to get through life when things dont end up going the way they intended it too, hell ive used it many times in my life to keep me sane.

[Tryska]

Of course everything happens for a reason - like cack said it is cause and effect....and spidey is on target too.


the way i look at it, it's up to you to Manifest your destiny. every little decision you make through your day, lays the foundation for something else to occur. Granted there are some "flukes" or streaks of good or bad luck, but for the most part, you set yourself up for what you face at the moment...either yesterday, or 6 months ago.

for myself I operate on about a 2 year cycle. I think of someplace i'd liek to be (or someone or something i'd liked to be) and about 2 years later, I wind up doing just that. sometimes it's conscious, sometimes sub-conscious, but in hindsight, i can say it's definitely something I worked towards (whether that be good or bad).

A door closes and a window opens. that's the nature of life.:)

[Chris Rodgers]

LMMFAOWSMMFKAPCM!!!!!!*


That was very funny Chigs.


*(Laughing my motherfuggin ass off while slapping my mutherfuggin knee and pulling Cack's mullet)

[heathj]

Well said spidey.

How could planets just come about without someone making them? The universe could not have just appeared out of ****ing no where from nothing. Someone had to create this. I don't see how you can think that it just came about. I can see your view on some things, but not others. Mainly it's on faith and yes, we do have free will.

[Sun]

One big rock, sun deteriorated it. Eventually split into pieces.

Fungus formed, and humans evolved. See that piece of moss around the tree? Prefer yo' brotha.

[Cackerot69]

Heath, how can you believe in some invisible man in the sky? I really have a harder time believing in some dude who just creates **** than an explanation like the big bang, primordial pool, evolution, etc. Of course I don't think all of those are actually 100% correct, but they are definately closer than the invisible man in the sky creating stuff belief......

[Sun]

Cackerot

Again, "faith". Don't knock it if you don't posess it. It's your choice. That's fine. But for your own sake I'd be really hoping there isn't one.

[big]

Originally posted by spideyongear
[BHowever, IMO, once you turn to God and put your faith in Him, then not only will your life start to get better, but you'll be at peace more, and feel more content with your life. You'll also have someone you know you can talk to about it and who'll really know how you feel. ;) [/B]

ha! you really believe that?! :evillaugh

[Cackerot69]

Have faith in what? I at least need a reason to have faith in something.....there's nothing for me to have faith in....

[ElPietro]

Here's my opinion on faith and religion. Now before I begin understand that I'm an analyst and try to apply logic to everything. :rolleyes:

First of all I do NOT believe in god, or a creator or prophets or anything like that. My theory behind the advent of religion is simple. When you live in a time of slavery and poverty where rulers lived off the broken backs of the lower class you need a way to keep them underfoot. Since they had nothing they had nothing to lose so conventional laws weren't working. So you need to give them something of value, ie. a sould. Nobody can prove it exists, but nobody can disprove either so it puts "the fear of god" into them. Now they are hesitant to break laws because even if they aren't caught, some god engineered by the upper class is watching them and if they break laws they will go to hell for eternal suffering.

Easy enough...they hire some good actors as prophets have them spout a whole bunch of religious dogma that closely mimics many of the laws. If you believe in a burning bush, how hard would it be to set a damn bush on fire and have somebody scream from behind it. Special effects can make things seem real today so why not in the past...especially when those being fooled are grossly more uneducated then people are today. This is why "faith" is key in religion. Without faith the whole concept is useless. Have "faith" in god, do what he says, or more realistically what his priests say since we've never heard him speak. If you don't believe us we can't prove anything, you must simply have faith, or you will not go to heaven.

Heaven is an excellent choice of means to have the general public obey the will of the collective ppl that decided to start religion in order to control the general public. Who want's to believe that when we die we are wormfood? Not too many of us, therefore heaven is invented and it is believed because it is what people wish to be true. Now there is something people have to live for, and therefore must adhere to the rules givin in the bible, korann, or whatever religious dogma, otherwise they will not get into heaven and even worse may go to hell.

An ingenious plot don't you think? People are still following the words of a book thousands of years old written in another language that has been translated millions of times. Ever play the game where you repeat what the person sitting beside you says and then it's totally different when it gets back to the original person? Well think of the bible as the same type of thing, only with many more factors influencing changes made to it.

I respect others beliefs, I still feel that religion has some value to children as it has the intended affect on them that I believe religion was designed for, ie. keep ppl nice and polite.

Sorry there are too many reasons not to believe in religion versus believe in it. Well...of course Noah collected two of every animal in the world and put them on the boat he and his family built, and then those two animals repopulated the entire world.

I don't believe in fate because there is no reason to possibly believe in fate in the first place. And for the minute fraction of my mind that may think twice about it, well it doesn't matter because you still have to make all the decisions in your life and if you need to blame fate on misfortune...well...then yer just plain stupid.

My thoughts.

[Mystic Eric]

Originally posted by Belial


Evolution? Primordial soup? Creation of extremely simple carbon molecules and primitive viral organisms from a mixture of a carbon-rich planet and volatile environment with plenty of stimuli for molecule creation and rearrangement?

aaah, that was the answer i was looking for. the idea of god is just as hard to believe as that answer you posted belial. why? because you can't see god, so that makes it difficult to believe because there is no "proof". but there is no "proof" that simple carbon molecules and mixtures of carbon rich planets and etc happened because no one witnessed it happen either. and that latter also insinuates that all that suddenly happend right from pure nothingness.

i do know that because of mutations, things do change/evolve. you have to remember, how can something evolve when there is nothing to begin with?

[Mystic Eric]

Originally posted by ElPietro
Here's my opinion on faith and religion. Now before I begin understand that I'm an analyst and try to apply logic to everything. :rolleyes:

First of all I do NOT believe in god, or a creator or prophets or anything like that. My theory behind the advent of religion is simple. When you live in a time of slavery and poverty where rulers lived off the broken backs of the lower class you need a way to keep them underfoot. Since they had nothing they had nothing to lose so conventional laws weren't working. So you need to give them something of value, ie. a sould. Nobody can prove it exists, but nobody can disprove either so it puts "the fear of god" into them. Now they are hesitant to break laws because even if they aren't caught, some god engineered by the upper class is watching them and if they break laws they will go to hell for eternal suffering.

Easy enough...they hire some good actors as prophets have them spout a whole bunch of religious dogma that closely mimics many of the laws. If you believe in a burning bush, how hard would it be to set a damn bush on fire and have somebody scream from behind it. Special effects can make things seem real today so why not in the past...especially when those being fooled are grossly more uneducated then people are today. This is why "faith" is key in religion. Without faith the whole concept is useless. Have "faith" in god, do what he says, or more realistically what his priests say since we've never heard him speak. If you don't believe us we can't prove anything, you must simply have faith, or you will not go to heaven.

Heaven is an excellent choice of means to have the general public obey the will of the collective ppl that decided to start religion in order to control the general public. Who want's to believe that when we die we are wormfood? Not too many of us, therefore heaven is invented and it is believed because it is what people wish to be true. Now there is something people have to live for, and therefore must adhere to the rules givin in the bible, korann, or whatever religious dogma, otherwise they will not get into heaven and even worse may go to hell.

An ingenious plot don't you think? People are still following the words of a book thousands of years old written in another language that has been translated millions of times. Ever play the game where you repeat what the person sitting beside you says and then it's totally different when it gets back to the original person? Well think of the bible as the same type of thing, only with many more factors influencing changes made to it.

I respect others beliefs, I still feel that religion has some value to children as it has the intended affect on them that I believe religion was designed for, ie. keep ppl nice and polite.

Sorry there are too many reasons not to believe in religion versus believe in it. Well...of course Noah collected two of every animal in the world and put them on the boat he and his family built, and then those two animals repopulated the entire world.

I don't believe in fate because there is no reason to possibly believe in fate in the first place. And for the minute fraction of my mind that may think twice about it, well it doesn't matter because you still have to make all the decisions in your life and if you need to blame fate on misfortune...well...then yer just plain stupid.

My thoughts.

el, i do not believe that is the case. the roman empire was loosing it's power due to christ and how people were following HIM and not the governement. why would a country, and its leaders make something that would make it turn against its government?

[Sun]

That is the whole basis of faith in religion.

You have FAITH that it is there, despite it's intangibility. It may not be in view, but that simply is due to the fact you haven't bothered to open your eyes. But like I said, your choice. That's cool with me. But if we are judged at the end of our time, how are you going to explain it? Think about that one. Is it because he doesn't exist, or is it because you're too lazy to go out and really, REALLY find him?

"You paid attention to everyone else but me. I had no idea you existed." :cry:

"Correction. You never paid attention to me. In all of your moving, I stood by you. All you had to do was take a sidelong glance." tuttut

A lesson that was preached not but two weeks ago at our church. It's not God that moves, it's us. And it is our decision whether or not we take him with us. Of all the power he wields, the one he will not consume is our free will.

[Cackerot69]

At least there is evidence to back up what Belial said, Term.

And that was an ace post Pietro....so true.

[Cackerot69]

Faith is fookin dumb...like I'm just gonna have faith in something that I have no reason to believe exists...

"This is why "faith" is key in religion. Without faith the whole concept is useless. Have "faith" in god, do what he says, or more realistically what his priests say since we've never heard him speak. If you don't believe us we can't prove anything, you must simply have faith, or you will not go to heaven."

There ya go....

[Sun]

Pietro, solid. Plausible. Except for one thing.

The message at the end still contains the same core. The core in this case being, "He exists." Perhaps at the beginning of the line there was an explanation, and it's been so tainted through years of delivery that it seems impossible to comprehend?

BTW, Cackerot. You may be well-versed in the "science of bodybuilding", but you've got plenty of growing up to do from that statement. There's a time and place, and insulting someone's religion or their intelligence for HAVING religion is something that 4 year olds do.

Like I said - Hope judgement never comes. Or hope you're immortal.

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by Big_Brick


ha! you really believe that?! :evillaugh


*** The least you could do is show some respect even if you don't agree.
No ones throwing their beliefs at anyone, they're just explaining what they believe and why they do.

[ElPietro]

First of all to say "open your eyes and find him" isn't a valid statement because I could rebutt with "open your eyes and realize there are better things to do on a sunday" such as NFL football or hangover recovery. But it doesn't have to be the roman empire that originated this. If one needs to overthrow a government creating fanatic religious groups can do just as much damage as any army can. Lastly, I fear no judgement, I live my life as a good person because that's how I was raised. I help ppl in need, I try not to judge people too harshly. I live my life as a decent person because it's what I feel is the right thing to do, not because some thousand year old book tells me to.

There has been more bloodshed because of religion than anything else pretty much in the history of time. Religion has it's values but there are many detriments to people posessing powerful weapons and believing they are doing the will of god. If there is a god, one god...which religion is the correct one then? All of them can't be right. There is a saying in the church that faith is blind. I would rather live my life as a good guy for my own reasons than need to be compelled by what I'm told at sunday school as a kid. In my opinion if I come face to face with this god he will pat me on the back and show me the way to the nearest pub in heaven because I lived my life the right way, for the right reasons. If you point a gun at someone's head and tell them to do something does that mean their heart is really in it?

Again if anyone takes this the wrong way please don't. I have had hours and hours of debates with a friend of mine who is a devout muslim and we both respect each other for our convictions. I don't tell someone that they're wrong if I can't prove it, so I respect whatever it is you believe. Just sharing my viewpoint.

[Cackerot69]

What ElPietro said...lol

[Sun]

Maybe all religions are the same. Maybe through years and years of sharing the tale, it's become so jumbled up that we've all pictured the "Almighty" differently. Wouldn't that be a shock to the world if Judaism = Christianity = Muslim = The list goes on.

But noone is pointing a gun at anyone's head to do anything. The teachings in church of "Have faith or be damned" as some of you put it, should stay inside the church and within the conscience of the believer, and them only. I agree with this. But as with anything, people will be overwhelmed with passion and freely spew from the mouth whatever it is they are feeling/thinking. A human flaw, not a divine one.

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by Sun
Maybe all religions are the same. Maybe through years and years of sharing the tale, it's become so jumbled up that we've all pictured the "Almighty" differently. Wouldn't that be a shock to the world if Judaism = Christianity = Muslim = The list goes on.


Doesn't this worry you? That over time everything is jumbled as you put it? If the image of god and nature of the religion is jumbled what does that mean for the rest of the content. How do you know what you are reading now remotely resembles what was written.

[Sun]

I think I'm about to say the "F" word. ;)

[PowerManDL]

I agree with El Pietro-- Religion is a very political thing, and much of early Judeo-Christian (and Muslim, which evolved from it) thought was actually based on Jewish tribal laws.

Take a look at God in the Old Testament, and the ideal of God taught by Christ in the New Testament. Practically two different beings. But, what Christ essentially taught was that the "one god" worshipped by the Jews was actually THE God. I don't personally believe that they were the same being, but that Christ was making an analogy between the two.

Secondly, the Dead Sea Scrolls (lost again because of political bickering in the newly forming Church) seem to strongly indicate that Christ was a Gnostic, that he in fact didn't endorse the idea of the external deity. Christ's lesson was to the effect of "look inside yourself to find God." I've read lots of material stating that Christ's identity as the personification of God was in fact a mis-translation-- that what was in fact meant was that to follow Christ was to be saved, not as an object of worship, but as an object of *example.* Live like Christ, and you will be saved.

And again, this just returns to the Buddhist and Taoist ideals I follow. God is not an external force, not some invisible man in the sky. God is *us,* and we are God.

As for the ontological (creationist) interpretations of this, I'd prefer a nice neat physics-oriented explanation as opposed to "God made it." The problem with the divine explanation is that its not an explanation. Maybe it explains where the Universe came from, but it doesn't explain where God came from. It just passes off the issue. Why can't you accept that the Universe came from nothing, but can accept that God can?

My personal belief is that the two are interchangable terms-- the physical cosmos, on some level, is intelligent. On exactly what level that is, I don't know, and I don't think we'll ever be able to say. Such questions are probably outside the scope of Man's capabilities all together. However, there are some options. By necessity, the level of complexity in a given system must decrease with its size. Look at the Universe as a whole: the largest structures are elegant in their simplicity, the galactic superclusters; one giant foam. The Galaxies are slightly more intricate, as are the stellar clusters, planetary systems, ecosystems, individual organisms, and so on down to the sub-atomic level, where the level of complexity becomes overwhelming. It may be here, in this infinitesimally small, yet infinitely large realm, that God awaits.

We'll just have to see. Or our descendants.

[Tryska]

of course you could take that further back, and say that the archetypes of christianity are pagan. Jesus = Osiris. same archetype of the resurrected son of God. the reason I love Roman Catholicism is because it's held fast to it's pagan roots without even realizing it.

[Mystic Eric]

brilliant post powerman. brilliant post.

[Sun]

I just realized something. PowerManDL = One complex, smart mofo.

That thing about God is us, and we are God is sort of like Christianity teaches about the Holy Spirit.

[Tryska]

actually something else you said dl brings up something i've been thinking about for a bit.....

eastern philopshy, much like the Gnostic view, seeks to find the divine within...or via an intenral journey, whereas it seems western philosophy holds stedfast to God being outside of oneself, causing things to be.....

which kinda goes back to the topic of does everything happen for a reason. Depends on whether you think life occurs outside and around you, or if you believe you create life with every breath.

[Sun]

In other news, I think Powerman and Tryska are gonna be getting it on within 2 hours of meeting up. I can see it now...

Tryska: blahhh blahhh Gnostic view blahhh, blahhh blllllluuuuuuh (At least this is what DL hears)
Powerman: Yes, I like that view. :alcoholic

J/K. ;)

[Tryska]

*lol*

shut up yaz!

*smacks him*

[Sun]

hee. :angel:

[Pup]

leave it to yaz to start *****

[Sun]

That is why you folks love me so much.

Isn't it?

[heathj]

Yes, yes it is. Gotta love Yaz.. :D

*Pietro made me bring it back...I swear!*

[ElPietro]

Oh no...even I resisted when I saw the poll sinep started asking if we thought cacks posts should be moderated... :D

[PowerManDL]

Wow-- I actually wrote something spiritual.

Cool.

[MonStar1023]

I totally believe that everything happens for a reason..

:cool::cool:

[Muscle4Christ]

Wow. I said some pretty dumb things. :D

[YatesNightBlade]

heh

[Muscle4Christ]

Originally posted by Spiderman
*reads and sees no mention of the phrase "Free Will"* :confused:

Man, you people sometimes....lol. God does have an a plan for us, that I believe. But He also gave us Free Will...i.e. the power to make our own decisions in life. This is what ultimately affects us. IMO, if you go through life not believing, not caring and just making decisions, then yes, your life may turn out get ****ed up. (as Sun so bluntly put it). However, IMO, once you turn to God and put your faith in Him, then not only will your life start to get better, but you'll be at peace more, and feel more content with your life. You'll also have someone you know you can talk to about it and who'll really know how you feel. ;)

I like this post.

[YatesNightBlade]

Me 2. Nice one Spidey !!