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laxplayer39
08-27-2001, 04:04 PM
Hey Guys. I am 17 years old. Currently I am 5'10" 185, down from 220. I have lost quite a bit of weight due to cutting calories, eliminating starchy and high glycemic foods (rice, pasta), eating more protein and just excerising more. My parents however are quite overweight and I fear that my dad is obese. He is 240 on a 5'7" frame.

I needed to ask you questions not only for me but for my dad. But I feel that I shoud give you some more background info about us. My family are all vegetarians, excluding me. I have started eating meat since september (I love it by the way!!) but since I am not allowed to bring it or keep it in the house I only have it when I go out (a lot of trips to subway!! 6' subclub with double meat on country wheat, oh yah baby!!). I do use supplements, however, such as GNC Brand Whey Protein Powder, GNC Mega Man Vitamins, GNC Flax Seed. Now that I have been reading a lot of t-mag I think I need better supplements and I now can get them (I worked all summer and I have money for health). This whole summer I have been training with a buddy of mine. We go to the gym and work one body part a day for 6 days and we do 2 miles. A warmup mile before the workout and a hard mile after the workout. I play sports for my high school team. I am a 3 year varsity lacrosse goalie and losing all that weight has helped me tremendously, i have more strength (to knock guys on their asses), more endurance (more playing time) and better skills. And I play roller hockey for fun as well as a lot of pickup bball.

My dad, however, is a strict vegetarian who loves indian food (we are all indian) which are a lot of carbs (rice, breads) and starches (lots of potatoes). He has a really high stress job and doesn't live with our family. He lives in New Mexico and flies to see us every weekend which adds to his stress. It seems when he comes home on weekends that he eats a lot more and he eats really fast. My mom always gets mad and I always have to stop her. She is also overweight but not so much as my dad. He is an engineer and he is managing a multimillion dollar project and its high stress. It ends in December and he will take 6 months off to get his health in check. My worst fear is that since his stress is so high that he may have a heart attack before the job ends. Is this is a valid concern or am I just too paranoid?

Well after all that, I need help as well as my dad. I was wondering what you experts would reccomend as far as training, diet, nutrition, and supplements for both of us. I mean I also need a bit of work because I have a big gut and a little bit of man boobs that I would like eliminated but its a far cry from last summer when I was 220 and on my way to where my dad is now. I am really asking for help because I dont know what else to do, not only for me but for my dad.

Thanks a lot!!!

Sun
08-27-2001, 04:44 PM
Wow dude. I am seriously touched by that, and I'm not being sarcastic, either. That is an awesome story, congrats on your accomplishments so far - Lord knows it isn't easy. And props for thinking about your dad too. I can relate, I was 215 as of a year ago, I went down to 145, and now I'm up to a quality 163. You've got mad respect in my book.

As far as the supplement issue goes, that's all it is. Supplements. Without a good core, no supplement will do anything for you. An ECA type product would be beneficial to your cause, but there is no reason to begin one just yet. Familiarize yourself with diet and training, get a good knowledge base, then introduce it to your arsenal. Also, good choice in the GNC whey protein. Low on the GI scale, as opposed to a meal replacement, and since fat loss is your main goal this is key. You always want a carb source post workout, but a low GI (Meaning it will cause a gradual increase in insulin, as opposed to a "spike") carb will not be detrimental at all to your overall progress. Since I mentioned insulin, I guess I'll try to point out some things and make you aware of them.

Ever had a craving, though you weren't really hungry? I mean you'd just eaten, but you CRAVED more? Insulin playing with you. It's really a great thing, insulin is quite anabolic (Meaning conducive to muscle growth)... but unfortunately when we are in anabolic mode a lot of times we are also packing in fat stores. Managing your insulin with a constant gradual stream of carbs makes the dieting scene much more tolerable.

A few things on diet:

- Try to eat 5-6 smaller, balanced meals per day.

- Taper out carbs in the last 2 meals of the day, unless you work out late at night.

- Fiberous carbohydrates at every sitting if possible. Oatmeal, veggies, what have you. I would try to avoid the fruits, perhaps an apple a day at most. The trick here is to eat enough carbs in a steady flow to keep glycogen stores moderately full, without overflowing them and inevitably storing fat/triglycerides. 30-35% of your total daily intake in calories.

- Whole proteins at every sitting. My choices: Chicken, Tuna, Turkey, Whey Protein Shakes, Cottage Cheese at night. Protein is your FRIEND. ;) - While the aminos and the whole proteins are the building blocks of muscle repair and growth, protein also has a slight thermic effect on the body when being digested. 40-45% of your total caloric intake. Some will say higher, not many will say lower while dieting.

- Fat sources. Fat will not make you any fatter than will a carb. The trick with this is getting enough essential fat in without going over the calorie limit. Protein is 4 calories per gram, Carbs are also 4, and Fat is 9. This is why people tend to eat less/no fat. Very calorie efficient. Also very inefficient for hormone output, hunger satiation, among other things. Try to get your fats from the Flax Seed you're taking, and all natural peanut butter is also good. Other fats are Olive Oil and Canola Oil, for example. You want to get as many monounsaturated and polyunsaturated within that ratio, and limit saturated. Make it about 20-25% of your total daily intake.

I prefer a 40% protein, 35% carbs, 25% fat ratio. Worked well for me. However what works for me may not work for you. Tweak it to your liking.

A few things on training:

- Join a gym. You'll meet a lot of good people there. People who will make you feel good about what you're doing. Stick with this board for your information source, and you're set. If someone says something that disagrees with what we say, bring it here and we can go over it and maybe explain. The only stupid question is an unasked question. Remember that. You're one of us, and you'll always be "part of the family" (Even if we do play a bit rough sometimes.)

- Cardio. I'd suggest starting at 4x per week. Interval training is my choice. You can go at 1 minute at a 6.5 pace, 1 minute at a 4.0 pace with a 7.5 incline. This is all treadmill based, mind you. You can do cardio any way you like. The main thing here is to coordinate with your diet to create a caloric defecit (EG: You will burn more calories than you consume.) - Remember the body uses calories for everything. Breathing, chewing, digesting, etc.

- Weight training. Believe it or not, this is where your composition will change. It won't be the running. Take me for example. I was a pear shape. I lost all the weight, but I was only a smaller pear than compared to before. Try to hit the weights as frequently as possible, but only train a bodypart once per week. I say something like:

Mon - Chest/Triceps
Tue - Back/Biceps
Wed - Rest
Thu - Shoulders/Traps
Fri - Legs
Sat/Sun - Rest, wherever cardio fits.

I know you're hungry for progress, but an important factor is not putting out the flame by being there (In the gym) too much. This will ruin it a lot towards the end for you. You'll start to feel fatigued, mentally and physically, your diet will slip... you'll get sick, unmotivated. Signs of overtraining.

There's so much more I could say, but that's really the basics. If I didn't answer something you wondered, all you need to do is send me a private message, or an e-mail. If you didn't see how to check profiles, I'll make it available here: Sun@IRCchat.Net. Don't be scared to ask. EVER. I'm here for you, as is everyone else. Bear that in mind at all times.

Don't ever give up. Your body is the biggest investment you will ever make, and you only get one.

Good luck.

Maki Riddington
08-27-2001, 04:58 PM
Good post Sun.

Tryska
08-27-2001, 06:17 PM
excellent post killa....you covered all the important points...

now my turn..*lol*

hey bro - i'm indian too (although my family is far from orthodox or vegetarian)....i can tell you this much...i understand your concern for your father's health, but there's not really much you can do to make changes for him. That's something he will have to do for himself, unless he's willing to open his mind and listen to you (which he probably won't til you're supporting him..;) ) It does sound like he's in rough shape at the moment, and lord knows protein will do him more good then all those carbs will.....but if he is veg....then i'm betting you won't be able to get him to start eating meat.....

do y'all eat milk and eggs?

i think you should focus on getting yourself in shape, perhaps if your family sees you being successful (which obviously you already are) then perhaps, they will start getting curious about how you've gotten there. the only thing you can do is set an example - your father's health is in your father's hands.

Sun
08-27-2001, 06:24 PM
Word. Believe it or not guy, you will influence your surroundings with a solid hand more than your surroundings will influence you. It's all about taking control.

You want this? There ain't no askin' in this game.
Only taking. So go and take it! It's all yours.

Cackerot69
08-27-2001, 08:23 PM
Although I don't agree with some of the minor points of Sun's post, that pretty much got it.

BTW, it's TSB :)

Sun
08-27-2001, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Cackerot69
BTW, it's TSB :)


?

Cackerot69
08-27-2001, 08:52 PM
Wasn't talking to you.....

nejar462
08-28-2001, 01:56 AM
I'm indian too, man my parents are insane, they think I wokrout too much, and they don't see a difference between muscles and fat. They really are ridiculous, they think that olive oil is high in cholesterol even though its says it has none on the front. They think creatine=roids, I just can't reason with them lol, any ideas? They're, ridiculously stubborn so I don't know that to do

Wizard
08-28-2001, 04:51 AM
Do not do cardio more than 3x a week.
Focus on weight training.(4times per week is ok)
Don't eat fat at the same time with carbs.Fat+carbs(especially sugars)=killer combo to store fat.
Eat protein in every meal.
Eat 5-6 times per day if possible.
Don't drop your carb intake levels too much from one day to another.It has to take some time.Do it gently.
Eat the right fats:
1)flax seed oil for omega 3's(make it 20%of your fat intake)
2)olive oil for monounsaturated fats.
3)peanut butter for omega 6's.
Restrict your sodium intake but don't overdo it.
Try to get up to 8 hours of sleep every night,
Don't eat any fat at all for 1-2 hours before your workout.(for optimal Growth hormone release)
Train as heavy as possible.
Keep your weight training sessions under 1 hour.(40-50mins is ok)
good luck :)

Tryska
08-28-2001, 05:32 AM
all these indians coming out of the woodwork.

Hulk? i think you need to add an Indian smiley. the frenchies got one! *lol*

Sun
08-28-2001, 06:21 AM
When fat loss is the main goal Blackalpha, DO CARDIO MORE THAN 3x PER WEEK. And that's my .02 on that matter. 4x per week is going to give better fat loss benefits, and it isn't going to catabolize much muscle at all with a well planned diet. No significant amount more than would 3x. When he's dropped a lot of the weight he wants to, then it can be dropped down. This is not just a "I'm bulked up I need to cut" scenario.

IceRgrrl
08-28-2001, 07:02 AM
Welcome, laxplayer :)

Sun's post was full of good info. Here's my take on the cardio...I play ice hockey and have some of the same strength and endurance goals as you do. I do cardio 3-5 times per week, usually more than less when getting ready for the season.

Try one interval session per week (maybe start with alternating 1 min. hard run with 1 min. slow jog to recover, then repeat) and one endurance run (longer and slower). The rest of your cardio might be one day of cross-training (biking, blading, lax drills, whatever) and one steady run at a faster pace than your endurance run, but shorter distance. I know this is kind of vague, but I don't know your fitness level...just giving you a general idea.

This cardio plan has really worked for me for hockey...

Wizard
08-28-2001, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Blackalpha

Do not do cardio more than 3x a week.

That's MO.
He must do up to 20 mins of cardio to start burning fat efficiently.
Then,he will be loosing fat... along with some muscle much which burns a lot of calories anyway....
If you want listen to the pros who are doing cardio for hours...
but they are "hormonal enhanced"... Well,that's it.

hemants
08-28-2001, 09:51 AM
Hey laxplayer,

You can add another Indian to that list.

1. For you : I would agree with all of the advice thus far.

2. For your dad:

This is a difficult issue. As you know in Indian culture, ghee=love. This is understandable because historically, in India, most problems tend to be problems of deficiency and ghee (clarified butter) was a source of fat and calories. In the old country, thin=poor and unloved, fat=healthy and loved. There's not much you can do about it.

That being said, speak to any cardiologist and he will tell you that Indian's in general have an unusually high instance of cardiovascular disease. No one is sure exactly why. You may speculate diet but it is more than that. Some 'world renouned' cardio vascular surgeons like to turn away Indian patients because our arteries tend to be thin and easily breakable and thus operating on one would 'ruin their success rate'.

Your parents need to know this!

Also, if your dad is travelling a lot then he is probably eating out which is generally very bad because restaurants tend to put lot's of butter and oil in their foods.

I would guess that your parents will not listen to you as much as they would a qualified cardiologist. However, see if you can get them to do the following:

1. drink skim milk (again, cultural resistance here)
2. eat salads and fresh foods as opposed to curried stuff all of the time
3. cut down on the rice and eat more whole wheat roti
4. have lentils or kidney beans or chick peas at least once a day
5. drink lot's of water
6. eliminate fried foods (samosas, pakoras, puri's, parantha's) and reduce the amount of oil used in preparing dinner.
7. when going to weddings or parties where dinner is served at 11:00pm eat before they go and just nibble when they get there.

Email me if you have any further questions : hemantsharma2000@hotmail.com

Tryska
08-28-2001, 09:56 AM
hee hee..hemants - you too huh?

it's interesting what you said about higher CV issues....kinda makes sense in light of what i'm reading about carbohydrates.

as for him being able to change his dad - do you really think that could happen?


very good suggestions though.


hulk - i want an indian smiley!

syntekz
08-28-2001, 10:04 AM
Isn't the cardio - fat burning - muscle burning scenario day to day?

What I mean is; it wouldn't matter if you did cardio 7 days a week because yesterdays cardio wouldn't affect your body today. So on and so forth.

Does that make sense?

hemants
08-28-2001, 10:16 AM
Well, changing old habits in older people is always a difficult challenge; that's why I recommended that they visit a cardiologist.

In that regard I have to tell you that my cardiologist friends say that they have mostly given up on councelling lifestyle and nutritional changes and just go straight to prescribing cholesterol reducing drugs. Thus, if you do visit one, insist on getting this councelling as it IS part of their job.

To put it in perspective, ask your dad how many 80 year olds he knows that are 250 lbs. That should put things in perspective.

:)

P.S. Tryska, I like your sig, but from what I recall the poem is :

"A little learning is a dangerous thing,
Drink deeply or taste not the Pyrian spring,
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking deeply sobers us again"

Thus you could change your sig to :

A little learning is a dangerous thing,
Live dangerously, learn a little.

Cackerot69
08-28-2001, 10:19 AM
Cardio sucks.

Everything Blacky said is perfect. Follow that.

Sun
08-28-2001, 10:20 AM
Thanks.

Tryska
08-28-2001, 10:25 AM
hemant - you're right - and i think i will...:)

i actually didn't pull it from a poem though - i pulled it off some graffiti i saw some where..*lol*

Maki Riddington
08-28-2001, 10:28 AM
I don't understand why cardio gets such a bad rap.
It's not going to eat a way at your hard earned muscle if you apply it properly.

Sun
08-28-2001, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
I don't understand why cardio gets such a bad rap.
It's not going to eat a way at your hard earned muscle if you apply it properly.

Sure won't.

IceRgrrl
08-28-2001, 11:50 AM
I said what I said about cardio b/c he's training for a sport, one that requires a LOT of cardiovascular fitness and endurance. If he was solely trying to bodybuild, then I wouldn't have recommended the amounts of cardio.

hemants
08-28-2001, 12:09 PM
Also Lax remember,

This is a wannabebig forum on bodybuilding not a forum on attaining better health.

The two are related but sometimes at odds as well.

laxplayer39
09-01-2001, 06:13 PM
Thanks a lot for ALL the replies!!!!!!!!

I guess I am not in this damn boat by myself.

Well I visited my dad this week and yah we still argue about me eating meat but everyone sees how much improvement i have made, but he chooses not to relate that with me eating meat!! :)

But yah we are cool and as per my suggestion he got a workout partner and he is starting to drink protein shakes and eat cottage cheese. He knows that he needs to lose fat to be in good health.

About cardio, I need to do a lot of cardio because I play a lot of sports. I play indoor and outdoor lacrosse as well as hockey and I need a **** LOAD of endurance because I usually play the whole game and I need to be able to make saves during overtime and I need the stamina.

Also, any supplements would you guys reccommend? I mean, to play better at sports and get pumped for the games? I dont want supplements that will be detrimental to my health or my dads but what do you think I should take and my dad?

Again, thanks for all the help! Im not worried as much because now I have a lot of good info to take to my pops

Cya

PS: What up TSB? You are on two forums? Cool.