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kickboxer111222
08-05-2003, 07:42 AM
hi
i was thinking of eating this before bed so that the protein absorbtion is slowed down:

2 glasses of milk
4 tablespoons of natural peanut butter.
bowl of cottage cheese

i thought i would do this with whey protein with the milk.
is this okay?

also, i was going to use casein but if im doing the above every night befre bed, would casein be wast of money?
thanks

SoulOfKoRea
08-05-2003, 09:48 AM
cottage cheese has casein, and the fats in the peanut butter would help slow the absorption of the whey/milk, so it would be okay.

you can buy casein, it would not be a waste of money if you weren't eating before bed... but since you are, I don't think you need it...

bradley
08-05-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by kickboxer111222
2 glasses of milk
4 tablespoons of natural peanut butter.
bowl of cottage cheese

i thought i would do this with whey protein with the milk.
is this okay?


What you have outlined above would definitely be a slow digesting meal, but it is also quite large. How many cals are you taking in over the course of the day? You really only need ~1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight over the course of the day, and the meal you have outlined above would contain a large amount of protein.

What I am trying to say is that you might want to think about spreading your cals out a little more evenly throughout the day, but then again I have not seen what the rest of your diet looks like. That meal alone would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 600-700 cals, if not more.

Scott S
08-05-2003, 11:37 AM
Agreed. And with that much protein before bed, the whey would be pretty superfluous. I just save it for post-workout.

IronDaddy
08-05-2003, 11:50 AM
I'd go with just the cottage cheese for the casein myself. It's a good bedtime snack.

kickboxer111222
08-05-2003, 02:12 PM
ok thank you , ill just take out the whey
i didnt think about that actually, coz your body can only intake around 50grams of protein at a time
thanks

unshift
08-05-2003, 02:17 PM
i do whey mixed with milk and a PB&J before bed. if i were you i'd pick EITHER cottage cheese OR whey BUT NOT both. personally, i cant eat cottege cheese, so i stick to the whey :)

kickboxer111222
08-05-2003, 02:19 PM
yeah i know.
im going with cottage cheese, peanut butter and milk.
ill save the whey for a couple of servings during the day.
thanks for all your advice

bradley
08-05-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by kickboxer111222
ok thank you , ill just take out the whey
i didnt think about that actually, coz your body can only intake around 50grams of protein at a time
thanks

That is actually just a myth. The body is quite effecient at absorbing the food you put into it, and I believe the digestion of protein is around 90%.

Frankster
08-14-2003, 04:00 PM
I think it looks like a good combination, but probably eat a smaller serving of each. I like that combination, I think I might use it when I'm done my diet.

rgkfit
08-17-2003, 08:25 AM
I do 4 eggwhites, 1/2 cup cottage cheese, and 1 tbsp. peanut butter. This is high protein, slow absorbtion due to the casein. It actually gels in the stomach upon digestion, releasing a slow steady stream of amino acids into the bloodstream.

Or you could go with a protein shake, add flax oil or heavy cream.

bradley
08-17-2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by rgkfit
I do 4 eggwhites, 1/2 cup cottage cheese, and 1 tbsp. peanut butter. This is high protein, slow absorbtion due to the casein. It actually gels in the stomach upon digestion, releasing a slow steady stream of amino acids into the bloodstream.

This would be true of any shake that contained casein.



Or you could go with a protein shake, add flax oil or heavy cream.

Liquid fats such as flax oil will not slow the digestion of a protein shake, although heavy cream would.

Heavy cream does not offer much as far as nutrition is concerned.

rgkfit
08-17-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by bradley


This would be true of any shake that contained casein.



Liquid fats such as flax oil will not slow the digestion of a protein shake, although heavy cream would.

Heavy cream does not offer much as far as nutrition is concerned.

Unless on a diet, Cream will almost identically match the same results on a diet that flax oil will.

The only time that Flax is needed over Cream is on a diet is if your carbs and fat are very very low. On a basic 50 / 20 / 30 diet that works for almost anyone, cream is completely fine.

For the majority of people wanting to gain muscle and lose fat and get in better shape, cream is a completely fine substitute for flax oil, plus the taste is awesome!

tuttut

bradley
08-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by rgkfit


Unless on a diet, Cream will almost identically match the same results on a diet that flax oil will.

The only time that Flax is needed over Cream is on a diet is if your carbs and fat are very very low. On a basic 50 / 20 / 30 diet that works for almost anyone, cream is completely fine.

For the majority of people wanting to gain muscle and lose fat and get in better shape, cream is a completely fine substitute for flax oil, plus the taste is awesome!

tuttut

I would have to disagree. The fat in cream is mainly saturated fat which is not really necessary to the body, where as flax oil contains ALA which can be converted into EPA/DHA, which are essential to the body.

The average person does not take in enough n-3 fatty acids as it is, and the notion that you can replace flax oil with cream and still receive the beneficial effects of n-3 fats is just not accurate.

I would like for you to produce something that states you can get the same benefits from cream as you can from flaxseed oil.:)

There are also health risks associated with high saturated fat intake.

-----------------

Dietary Fatty acids and coronary heart disease.

Wolfram G.

Department of Food and Nutrition, Technical University Munich, Alte Akademie 16, D-85350 Freising, Germany. gwolfram@wzw.tum.de

Epidemiological studies have confirmed a strong association between fat intake, especially saturated and trans fatty acids, plasma cholesterol levels and rate of coronary heart disease (CHD) mortality. Meanwhile it is clear, that early atherosclerosis is largely preventable by modifying nutritional behaviour and lifestyle. - There is clear evidence that a diet moderate in total fat (25-35 % energy) is superior to extremes in dietary fat. Because fat is energy dense moderation in fat intake is also essential for weight control. Saturated fatty acids are very potent in increasing LDL-cholesterol concentration in plasma a dangerous risk factor for early CHD. Unsaturated fatty acids have numerous beneficial health effects. The results of prospective cohort studies fit well to the experimental experience of the antihypercholesterolemic action of Omega-6 fatty acids and the antithrombotic, vasodilatory and antiarrhythmic properties of Omega-3 fatty acids, while the optimistic rating of Omega-9 fatty acids is less supported by epidemiologic studies. The results of prospective cohortstudies are confirmed by intervention trials revealing that saturated fatty acids enhance early development of CHD whereas polyunsaturated fatty acids, especially of the Omega-3 type, significantly preserve from CHD. In context with a prudent diet pattern favourable dietary fatty acid composition offers the best chance for a reduced risk of CHD.

---------

rgkfit
08-18-2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by bradley


I would have to disagree. The fat in cream is mainly saturated fat which is not really necessary to the body, where as flax oil contains ALA which can be converted into EPA/DHA, which are essential to the body.

The average person does not take in enough n-3 fatty acids as it is, and the notion that you can replace flax oil with cream and still receive the beneficial effects of n-3 fats is just not accurate.

I would like for you to produce something that states you can get the same benefits from cream as you can from flaxseed oil.:)

There are also health risks associated with high saturated fat intake.

-----------------

Dietary Fatty acids and coronary heart disease.

Wolfram G.

Department of Food and Nutrition, Technical University Munich, Alte Akademie 16, D-85350 Freising, Germany. gwolfram@wzw.tum.de

Epidemiological studies have confirmed a strong association between fat intake, especially saturated and trans fatty acids, plasma cholesterol levels and rate of coronary heart disease (CHD) mortality. Meanwhile it is clear, that early atherosclerosis is largely preventable by modifying nutritional behaviour and lifestyle. - There is clear evidence that a diet moderate in total fat (25-35 % energy) is superior to extremes in dietary fat. Because fat is energy dense moderation in fat intake is also essential for weight control. Saturated fatty acids are very potent in increasing LDL-cholesterol concentration in plasma a dangerous risk factor for early CHD. Unsaturated fatty acids have numerous beneficial health effects. The results of prospective cohort studies fit well to the experimental experience of the antihypercholesterolemic action of Omega-6 fatty acids and the antithrombotic, vasodilatory and antiarrhythmic properties of Omega-3 fatty acids, while the optimistic rating of Omega-9 fatty acids is less supported by epidemiologic studies. The results of prospective cohortstudies are confirmed by intervention trials revealing that saturated fatty acids enhance early development of CHD whereas polyunsaturated fatty acids, especially of the Omega-3 type, significantly preserve from CHD. In context with a prudent diet pattern favourable dietary fatty acid composition offers the best chance for a reduced risk of CHD.

---------

Nowhere did I imply that heavy cream was as nutritionally sound as flax oil. That would be silly. What I did imply was that heavy cream is perfectly acceptible substitute when not on a fat loss diet, this was also in my post. It provides nice calories. It was also a favorite of some pretty good Mr. O's, namely Frank Zane and Larry Scott. Now, when I go on a leaning or dieting phase, I of course drop this in favor of flax oil. I also even on gaining mix 1 tbsp. flax and one tbsp. of heavy cream.;)

bradley
08-18-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by rgkfit


Nowhere did I imply that heavy cream was as nutritionally sound as flax oil. That would be silly. What I did imply was that heavy cream is perfectly acceptible substitute when not on a fat loss diet, this was also in my post. It provides nice calories. It was also a favorite of some pretty good Mr. O's, namely Frank Zane and Larry Scott. Now, when I go on a leaning or dieting phase, I of course drop this in favor of flax oil. I also even on gaining mix 1 tbsp. flax and one tbsp. of heavy cream.;)

Well here is your original post:
"Unless on a diet, Cream will almost identically match the same results on a diet that flax oil will. "

This would imply that there is less need for EFAs when bulking, which is not accurate. You are clearly stating that you will get the same results if you were to replace flax oil with cream.


"The only time that Flax is needed over Cream is on a diet is if your carbs and fat are very very low. On a basic 50 / 20 / 30 diet that works for almost anyone, cream is completely fine. "

You still need EFAs regardless of your current goals.


"For the majority of people wanting to gain muscle and lose fat and get in better shape, cream is a completely fine substitute for flax oil, plus the taste is awesome!"

Are you saying that cream will somehow help you accomplish the goal of both gaining muscle and losing fat?

I would still like to see some scientific evidence that shows cream offers some sort of nutritional benefits when added into a bodybuilding diet.:)

rgkfit
08-19-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by bradley


Well here is your original post:
"Unless on a diet, Cream will almost identically match the same results on a diet that flax oil will. "

This would imply that there is less need for EFAs when bulking, which is not accurate. You are clearly stating that you will get the same results if you were to replace flax oil with cream.


"The only time that Flax is needed over Cream is on a diet is if your carbs and fat are very very low. On a basic 50 / 20 / 30 diet that works for almost anyone, cream is completely fine. "

You still need EFAs regardless of your current goals.


"For the majority of people wanting to gain muscle and lose fat and get in better shape, cream is a completely fine substitute for flax oil, plus the taste is awesome!"

Are you saying that cream will somehow help you accomplish the goal of both gaining muscle and losing fat?

I would still like to see some scientific evidence that shows cream offers some sort of nutritional benefits when added into a bodybuilding diet.:)

And I stand by that. I am not suggesting the health benefits, this is strictly from a muscle gaining standpoint. The only advantage to cream is in the old literature - Rheo Blair and Vince
Gironda in particular and currently in Natural Hormonal Environment (Rob Faigin) it seems to have some of growth properties probably due to saturated fat's positive affect on testosterone production that may have a slight size
building advantage over flax. Of course Flax definitely for health. I would never say no don't do flax, as I mentioned, do cream instead, but I also know that cream and protein works for size and flax and protein seems to work better for health and
leaning out.

bradley
08-19-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by rgkfit


And I stand by that. I am not suggesting the health benefits, this is strictly from a muscle gaining standpoint. The only advantage to cream is in the old literature - Rheo Blair and Vince
Gironda in particular and currently in Natural Hormonal Environment (Rob Faigin) it seems to have some of growth properties probably due to saturated fat's positive affect on testosterone production that may have a slight size
building advantage over flax. Of course Flax definitely for health. I would never say no don't do flax, as I mentioned, do cream instead, but I also know that cream and protein works for size and flax and protein seems to work better for health and
leaning out.

I agree with what you are saying above, but I just wanted to point out that you always need EFAs. I agree that cream would be an acceptable way of adding fat and/or additional calories to your diet, but EFA intake should always come first.

atom
08-19-2003, 10:50 PM
i have 250gms of lean steak and 2 fuul poached eggs even when cutting, this year ive kept hold of twice as much muscle , see competitons section 10 wks out

LAM
08-20-2003, 02:37 PM
whole foods are less than optimum for before bed. a blended protein with some fiber and EFA's would be superior

Blood&Iron
08-20-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by bradley


I would have to disagree. The fat in cream is mainly saturated fat which is not really necessary to the body
...

There are also health risks associated with high saturated fat intake.


High intake is bad.

No intake is bad too.

You should be getting some saturated fat in your diet, though.

Frankster
08-20-2003, 03:16 PM
Really? What's the purpouse of sat fats?

bradley
08-20-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Blood&Iron

High intake is bad.

No intake is bad too.

You should be getting some saturated fat in your diet, though.

I agree with you B&I, but supplemental saturated fat is not going to be of much benefit to most individuals. The main reason being that most people get plenty of saturated fats through their diet. I did not mean to imply that moderate saturated fat intake was bad, but I wanted to make the point that comparing cream and flaxseed oil is like comparing apples and oranges.

rgkfit
08-20-2003, 05:34 PM
It has been observed that saturated fats can have a positive affect on testosterone production. Do not go overboard with this though, in excess still very unhealthy. The saturated fat in cream in minute, 4.5 gr. pre tbsp., and will not hurt you to add 2-4 tbsp. to your shake.

rgkfit
08-20-2003, 05:35 PM
I should add to that if you are trying to gain. Cutting, drop in favor of flax.

bradley
08-20-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Frankster
Really? What's the purpouse of sat fats?

Saturated fat makes up a large percentage of the cell membranes in our body, and studies have also shown a positive correlation between saturated fat intake and testosterone levels.

Although saturated fat is not an essential fat, as it can be produced by the body.

While I do not agree with all of Mercola's theories/practices, the article below might be of interest.:)

http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm

rgkfit
08-20-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by bradley


Saturated fat makes up a large percentage of the cell membranes in our body, and studies have also shown a positive correlation between saturated fat intake and testosterone levels.

***Ditto

Although saturated fat is not an essential fat, as it can be produced by the body.

While I do not agree with all of Mercola's theories/practices, the article below might be of interest.:)

http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm

****I don't know that any of us agree with everything we read, thankfully. Experience is a darn good teacher. A favorite of former Mr. O Frank Zane was 3 oz. protein, 2 oz. whipping cream, 1 whole egg, and 12 oz. water. Larry Scott, another not too shabby Mr. O mixed 2 oz. protein in 8 oz. heavy cream and ate as a pudding.

dirty-c
08-21-2003, 01:21 PM
One thing I didnt understand from that article was that it advised avoiding too much peanut oil, because it was high in omega-6. Omega-6 is a POLYunsaturated fat. Earlier in the article, it classified peanuts as containing mostly MONOunsaturated fat. Whats the deal here?