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ITHURTZ
08-05-2003, 09:21 AM
u know how u guys always say, its hard to bulk and cut at the same time, it makes me wonder, can u eat 3-3500cal a day, and do cardio 1-2 times a week and get the cut look but still get the muscle growth u need? or does the running take away the cal ur muscle need?

SoulOfKoRea
08-05-2003, 09:45 AM
cardio 1-2 times a week would not be very effective to oxidize fat.

I don't see how you could "bulk" and "cut" at the same time, as one involves increasing calories, and one involves decreasing calories, but you can "bulk" while losing fat by cardio. or HIIT.

take a look into AKA's journal.

aka23
08-05-2003, 09:49 AM
In my opinion doing cardio 1/2x per week should not significantly interfere with your gains, so long as the cardio is separated sufficiently from the weightraining (no overtraining the legs, proper post workout nutrition), the cardio is not done in conditions where glycogen levels are low, and desired caloric balance is maintained. There are some issues at extremes or elite levels, but it sounds like this does not apply to your situation. Here are some related studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...2&dopt=Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7752872&dopt=Abstract)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...8&dopt=Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2312468&dopt=Abstract)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1917223&dopt=Abstract)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...7&dopt=Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11880817&dopt=Abstract)

Bulking and cutting at the same time will proably be difficult to do unless you are untrained and/or overweight. It is difficult to lose fat unless in a negative calorie balance, while it is difficult to gain muscle unless in a positive calorie balance. It is not uncommon for untrained/overweight persons to gain muscle while in a small negative calorie balance. It is also not uncommon for untrained/overweight persons to lose fat while in a small positive calorie balance. Both of these circumstances usually involve gaining muscle while losing fat. As a person becomes more trained, it becomes more difficult to gain muscle, and gaining muscle while losing fat becomes more difficult. Similarly the body likes to maintain a certain body fat set point. As body fat decreases, it becomes increasingly difficult to continue to lose fat, and gaining muscle while losing fat becomes more difficult.

This body fat set point can be manipulated in several ways including weightlifting, doing cardio, dietary manipulations, and supplementation. Certain types of exercises have more effect than others. A trained/lean person may be able to gain muscle and lose fat by using such methods, but at some point they will also reach a plateau where further changes are not possible.

Generally it is more efficient to focus on one activity or the other - gaining muscle or losing fat. You can minimize the amount of fat gained or muscle lost by eating near calorie maintenance (such that you gain/lose under 1lb per week), and by doing a combination of weightlifting and cardio.

ITHURTZ
08-06-2003, 05:35 PM
do bascially to gain muscle u need to bulk, and to get cut ull lose some strength just to get that ab pokin through...

u cant just go on a 2,000 cal diet and eat protein and **** and be cut?

bradley
08-07-2003, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by ITHURTZ
do bascially to gain muscle u need to bulk, and to get cut ull lose some strength just to get that ab pokin through...

The best way to go about adding LBM is to eat slightly above maintenance, and the best way to lose bf while maintaining LBM is to eat slightly below maintenance. You can accomplish this by creating a calorie deficit either through diet, activity, or a combination of the two.



u cant just go on a 2,000 cal diet and eat protein and **** and be cut?

Sure you could, but you might end up losing LBM in the process. All you really need to do is slowly reduce your calories in small increments each week until you are losing a small amount of weight each week. There is nothing that says you have to change your diet radically to lose weight. Make sure you are taking in adequate amounts of protein and EFAs and go from there.

If you want additional feedback you could post your current diet.:)

ITHURTZ
08-07-2003, 08:36 AM
heh ya i dont think my diet is all that great

430am 2-3 cups of cereal (no its not oatmeal but it gets me going
8am snack at work, usually a drink/bag o chips
1030am weight gainer shake (bout 700-800cal worth)
1230pm lunch, either can of tuna and soup or something similiar
3pm (sometimes i do this sometimes not) PBJ or similiar
630pm dinner, usually some meat and noodles
930pm come home from gym take weight gainer shake again, another 700-800 cal ( weight gainer is 88g ofprotein per serving so thats 1 serv per day)

1030-11pm sleep, wake up at 420am and do it all over again what a life!

ITHURTZ
08-07-2003, 08:39 AM
i just wanna loose this little belly fat i got, just the lower portion. upper is fine

bradley
08-07-2003, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by ITHURTZ
430am 2-3 cups of cereal (no its not oatmeal but it gets me going

Add in some sort of protein in with this meal. Whether it be whey mixed with milk or maybe a couple of boiled eggs/egg whites, and decrease the amount of cereal that you are eating.



8am snack at work, usually a drink/bag o chips

What about taking something to work from home? I am sure you can find something better than a bag of chips.:)



1030am weight gainer shake (bout 700-800cal worth)


If you are looking to cut cals this would be an easy place to start. Adding in a whole food meal here would help as far as appetite control is concerned.



1230pm lunch, either can of tuna and soup or something similiar
3pm (sometimes i do this sometimes not) PBJ or similiar
630pm dinner, usually some meat and noodles
930pm come home from gym take weight gainer shake again, another 700-800 cal ( weight gainer is 88g ofprotein per serving so thats 1 serv per day)

I would add in some sort of slow digesting protein source before bed, and it also looks as though you could use more EFAs in your diet. You could supplement with fish oil, flax oil, or substitute some oily fish in your diet in place of other protein sources.

I would imagine you could clean up your diet little and drop some bf without much of a problem. Might also think about adding in a little cardio if you are not performing any at the present time.

ITHURTZ
08-07-2003, 05:29 PM
well how much cardio a week? and for how long, last week i ran 3 miles in 27min, KILLED my calfs, should i run more?

bradley
08-08-2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by ITHURTZ
well how much cardio a week? and for how long, last week i ran 3 miles in 27min, KILLED my calfs, should i run more?

More is not necessarily better. Try adding in some HIIT cardio, and start out with 1-2 sessions the first week and then increase from there. Check out the HIIT sticky in the training forum as well, which should provide a lot of info on high intensity interval training.

ITHURTZ
08-08-2003, 09:32 AM
ok so basically hiit is moving from one workout to another, like go bi's, tri's shoulders, chest, bi tri etc. if that is correct i basically do that, except between bi excersies, chest etc, i will get a set of 5-7 and take a break for 5 min then go back and do them again. i usually do this on my arm days ,bi/tri and chest/back/neck muscle thing, but its kinda hard when u are tryin to curl 70lb each arm. i do it with lighter weight to get the burn........

bradley
08-08-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by ITHURTZ
ok so basically hiit is moving from one workout to another, like go bi's, tri's shoulders, chest, bi tri etc. if that is correct i basically do that, except between bi excersies, chest etc, i will get a set of 5-7 and take a break for 5 min then go back and do them again. i usually do this on my arm days ,bi/tri and chest/back/neck muscle thing, but its kinda hard when u are tryin to curl 70lb each arm. i do it with lighter weight to get the burn........

When I was referring to HIIT I was referring to high intensity interval training, which would be performed doing activities such as sprinting.

Basically you would perform an "all out" spring for say 20 seconds and then jog/walk for ~60 seconds to allow for recovery, repeat.

You could perform HIIT using other forms of cardio such as a stairmaster, ellipticle trainer, etc., as HIIT cardio is more about increasing the intensity of the exercise and not the exercise itself.

I know the thread below is long but I think reading through it would give you a much better idea of what I am referring to.:)

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23970&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

ITHURTZ
08-08-2003, 11:12 AM
ah ok thanks :D