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Nights
08-28-2001, 12:21 AM
Title makes no sense, as usual.. And chances are I'm going to be asking a question that you guy (and girls) have heard a half dozen times before. I've got my workout schedule all cut out, already.. but I'm pretty sure my eating sucks. I like my current weight (could trim a few pounds, but nothing hard) and I'm more interested in toning then anything else..

Tell me how screwed up my diet is.
Morning - Two eggs, toast
Snack - Pear or some sorta fruit
Dinner - Salad or rice
Snack - Protien Shake (normally blended with yogart)
Supper - chicken breast.
If the day is a workout one, add two slices of toast, or some rice after.. rare occassion a chicken breast if I'm dying.

..I've leaned down a bit in the last few weeks because of this (lost a bit more weight) but I'm pretty sure I'm not getting what I need to put on any muscle. Suggestions? (And by that, I mean, tell me what to eat. When to eat it, and try not to give me tuna.. or food that'll kill my already slim wallet. Please.)

Ooh.. and I'm a college student of sort (off campus.. not that we have one).. and I work right after school most days, so too many meals is hard to get to.

Also, I might as well ask this as well, how important is the preworkout food? If I hit the gym before school, then I normally miss it.. or, if I do get it, how long should I let it sit in me before going?

B.

Nights
08-28-2001, 01:02 PM
Ok, let me rephrase this. I've looked through this forum hoping that the question had been answered before, and all I've been finding is dieting for cutting/building or bulking/building.. Is there any possible way to neither bulk nor cut.. just maintain the same sort weight but lower your bf %.. become a ripped mofo?

If there is, what sorts of meals/diet/ration of carbs/fat/protien would you suggest (keep it simply. A month ago I thought the diet was made up solely of fats and protien. Carbs was a unknown to me).

Anyone?
B.

vpy
08-28-2001, 01:28 PM
Is there any possible way to neither bulk nor cut.. just maintain the same sort weight but lower your bf %.. become a ripped mofo?

Stay the same weight but lower your BF%? Well, since you can't convert fat to muscle/LBM, I'd say that answer is no.

You seem to be getting barely any calories in the early part of the day... two eggs, toast, and a pear? That's 400 cals or something. I don't know your weight and therefore your cal requirement per day, but thats awfully low anyways. Your quote "a chicken breast if I'm dying" makes me believe that you're starving yourself. tuttut

Wizard
08-28-2001, 01:34 PM
You can do what you want but it may take some time to achieve a lower bf while maintaining the same weight.(because that means that you'll gain some muscle mass of course).
Try to get an amount of calories near your -estimated- maintenance caloric intake and drop some carbs,especially simple sugars and high gi,and replace them with protein.Include some EFA's in your diet and don't combine them with carbs.(like I said in the other thread).
If you have patience you'll achieve your goals anyway!

Nights
08-28-2001, 03:45 PM
Vpy.. I meant 'If I'm dying' as in when I get home from working out, and the rice/bread doesn't fill me up, and I still have the desire to eat small children.. then I have a chicken breast as well. Umm.. I weight about 175ish (maybe lower), so is that within my cal requirement? Or am I starving myself without knowing it? (I've gone about a week with no true meals (cookie or so a day), and not really felt hungry, so I could probably starve myself without knowing it). And while I know that it's impossible to transform fat into muscle, would it be possible to lower the bf % while remaining close to my weight already? (I don't want to lose ten pounds, or gain ten is what I meant before)

Ok, next question is for blackalpha.. I ain't got a clue what your talking about. I understand how to get the maintance caloric intake (measure all calories going into the body and not gaining weight), though I'm afraid I have no clue how much calories (protien/carbs/fat) is in a chicken breast, an egg, or a peach, or anything that doesn't have a label on it.. Next, what is an EFA? What kinda food are simple sugars and high gi found in (or what is it for that matter)? And you say it's possible while vpy says not a chance.. I'm kinda (well, completely) confused. :confused:

I'm someone who maintains a steady weight whether I eat constantly, or not (well, up to about a year ago, where I added a few extra pounds).. so I'll once again express my complete ignorance in this subject. I don't know how many calories is high, I don't know what is low.. and what portions of each type is good. I'm trying to learn. Thanks, in advance and for the stuff you've already confused me with, for anything your willing (and patient) enough to explain

B.

Jane
08-28-2001, 03:58 PM
First of all, to help you out with the calorie/macronutrient stuff there are a million websites and books out there that tell you *exactly* what is in that peach, egg, or chicken breast. The USDA nutrient database, for example, is right here:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl

As for EFA's, those are essential fatty acids, and basically you need to try to get your fats from sources like olive oil, flaxseed oil, fish oils, nuts, natural peanut butter, etc. Salmon is a great thing, for example--high protein, healthy fats. And yummy to boot.

Jane
08-28-2001, 04:14 PM
Here is a good site:

http://www.cyberpump.com/nutrimuscle/nutrimuscle.html

Jane
08-28-2001, 04:30 PM
These are perfect for you:

http://www.wannabebig.com/archive/may/dietbasics.php


http://www.wannabebig.com/archive/a...abits_part2.php

All about calories and carb/protein/fat ratios etc.etc...
Good luck!

vpy
08-28-2001, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Nights
And you say it's possible while vpy says not a chance.. I'm kinda (well, completely) confused. :confused:


well, maybe I misunderstood you, but you said neither bulk nor cut... and "bulk" to me is gain muscle... while "cut" to me is to lose fat while trying to preserve muscle... thats why I said it'd be impossible to reduce BF% while keeping at the same weight while neither gaining muscle nor losing fat :) It's generally hard to lose fat while gaining muscle... so that's why the majority of us pack on the muscle(while gaining some fat in the process b/c we're getting above-maintenance cals) and then cut down to reduce the unwanted fat that came along with all that added muscle.


(I've gone about a week with no true meals (cookie or so a day)

Um, that'd be starvation in my book..:eek: that's not enough cals for a small poodle much less someone 175lbs. Everyone is different, but the general guideline is to eat 12x your BW in lbs to get maintenance calories.... so for you, that'd be around 2100 cals/day.

Nights
08-28-2001, 05:37 PM
...I'm thinking it was me that misunderstood the words bulk and cut, actually.

"It's generally hard to lose fat while gaining muscle" -- That's pretty much my plan.. damnit. How hard would it be to do so? Or, how hard would it be to gain muscle while not gaining extra fat? How would one go about either process?

Was that what Blackalpha's method was describing, or had I confused him on my purpose as well (That one is directed to you, BA, seeing as I'm pretty sure nobody else can really know what you were thinking I meant.)

B.

Wizard
08-29-2001, 06:46 AM
"It's generally hard to lose fat while gaining muscle"
Yes,it is.

But I thought your aim was to reduce bodyfat while maintaining the same weight,which of course means that you will gain a small amount of muscle mass.That's possible but as I told you it may take time.

Try to set one goal either bulk or cut and focus on it.Str8 cutting while maintaining muscle mass is were you should look at.

Tryska
08-29-2001, 06:50 AM
agreed.

in order to lose fat, you should be in a caloric deficit.
in order to gain muscle you should be in caloric overage.

so - decide whether you want to lose the fat, while maintaining the muscle

or

gain muscle, while possibly adding on more fat.

and then we can go from there.

Wizard
08-29-2001, 06:57 AM
Chemical diets that include small cycles can make you lose fat while gaining muscle mass.(ckd)

Tryska
08-29-2001, 07:00 AM
well true...but i think that's a little advanced for his purposes at the moment.

Wizard
08-29-2001, 07:03 AM
agreed. ;)

Nights
08-29-2001, 09:33 AM
Damn.. I really didn't want to have to make the choice between bulking and cutting.. which is why I was hoping there was a inbetween. Few questions for ya again, BA.. When doing the reducing the bf %, how small a gain in muscle would it be? (I think I'm the only guy here that doesn't want to be huge, so provided it's not absolutely tiny I can probably stand it.) Also, how long a time are we talking..?

Tryska, it's not that I don't respect your choices, it's just I'm hoping your wrong.. No offense meant, it's just like I said I really didn't wanna have to choose between bulking and cutting. I ain't got enough muscle to cut, and something about the thought of gaining fat/size, even if it's with a more muscle, disturbs me.. So, next question, in case BA comes out with the response "Damn little muscle gain, and it's going to take you years..", would bulking first, then cutting after be the best choice at the beginning, if the goal in the end is to be around the same weight but less fat more muscle..?

B.

Tryska
08-29-2001, 09:37 AM
*lol* well..it's not exactly a choice..it's just how things are.....but yeah...logically, bulking first to gain the muscle you want and then cutting back down to your present weight with a lower BF would be the way to go......it depends on your metabolism a bit. if it's faster then cutting will be easier, if it's slower then bulking would be easier, you know what i mean?

Wizard
08-29-2001, 10:10 AM
You can expect adding 1-2 pounds(very difficult to gain more) while cutting if your plan is for up to 12-16 weeks.

Again,as Tryska said,all the progress is depended on your metabolism and it would be better to focus on one goal per time.The choice is yours.

Nights
08-29-2001, 11:04 AM
Two questions, then.. How long should my cycle for bulking/cutting be? And I still need serious help on diet. Way I've figured it out, my AMR is 3403 cals, and I'm eating 1042 (on a workout day.. -126 if it isn't). That's something like a 1/3 of what I should be. Tell me if my figures are wrong.. Also, tell me what else I should be tossing in.. and what sorta ratio should I be aiming for if I'm going for the least fat gain possible?

(This eating routine is same as before.. Only cals have been added)
Breakfast
Two Eggs
Two slices of whole wheat bread
Protein - 18.2g Fat - 14.3g Carbs - 26g = 305 cals.

Snack
Peach
Protein - .7 Fat - .09 Carbs - 10.9 = 47.21 cals

Dinner
Rice (one serving)
Protein - 3.1 Fat - .2 Carbs - 28 = 126.2 cals

Snack
Protein shake + yogurt (one cup)
Protein - 29.8 Fat - 5.5 Carbs - 50.9 = 372.3 cals

Supper
Chicken breast - About 1 kg
protein - 12.1 Fat - 1.9 Carbs - 0 = 65.5

Afterworkout (if day is a workout one) - Rice.. so another 126.2 cals

Ratio - Protein 26% Fat - 21% Carbs - 55%.. Let me guess. Eat more. More protein, less carbs.. not bad on fats, though.. Suggestions on how to get this?

B.
I'm going to eat now.. All this talk of food is making me hungry as can be, and since I'm pretty sure that diet is dead wrong, I'm going to break it hardcore today.

TvR8oRage
08-29-2001, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Nights
Damn.. I really didn't want to have to make the choice between bulking and cutting..
gaining fat/size, even if it's with a more muscle, disturbs me..
B.

Sorry bro but you have to make a choice, cut then bulk or bulk then cut, there is not way to put on muscle and burn fat effectivly at the same time at least with out AS assistance, and by your question i can tell you not ready for that,
Burning fat = Consuming less cals then you burn per day,
your tapping into fat stores for energy
gaining muscle=consuming more cals then you burn per day, now
you could eat clean and put on muscle with very little fat gain, but you have to experiment with how many cals you need to do this, you wont put on fat but your not going to loose any, yes you body fat % will go down but thats only because you put on more LBM, not because you burned fat,
you will reach your goals alot faster if you do one at a time
I suggest scense your light already is bulk for a while keep your diet clean, then cut up.