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Wikked1
08-06-2003, 10:45 AM
Run a search on Fish Oil and it's almost as bad as the Microsoft Knowledge base.....lots of hits!
OK here's a question regarding dosage on these things.
I've got 1000 mgs gel caps.
How many should I be taking and when? According to the label I should take 1-2 every meal which means 12 a day.........can someone give me a good heads up? I'm @ 185lbs and cutting but hoping to steady out the scale (not lose weight just convert or burn fat) (The "impossible dream")?
Thanks!

SoulOfKoRea
08-06-2003, 10:52 AM
you'd want about 25% of your Calories to come from healthy fat sources, both omega 3s and omega 6s.

1 gram of fat(1000 mg...) = 9 Cals

rest is up to you!

bradley
08-06-2003, 11:19 AM
This study indicates that ~3g EPA/DHA (combined amount) would be the recommended dosage of fish oil per day. You would need to determine the amount of EPA/DHA in the caps you have and go from there.

The study also indicated that there were no changes observed in bleeding time associated with the dosage recommended above.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2141757&dopt=Abstract
"This study indicates that 3 g n-3 ethyl ester fatty acids appears to be the appropriate supplementation dose in humans, at least regarding lipid-profile changes and the ability to incorporate such fatty acids in the plasma phospholipids."

You would also need to take into account the amount of n-6 fatty acids that you are taking in each day. The ratio that I have seen recommended is ~3:1 omega-6 to omega-3, and there is a related link below.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12442909&dopt=Abstract

Once you have the amount of n-3 fats, along with a good ratio of n-6:n-3 fattty acids you could fill in the rest of your fat calories with a monounsaturated oil such as olive oil. Olive oil will upset the ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acids.

Wikked1
08-06-2003, 11:40 AM
Thanks Guys :)

Fish Oil Burps=SUCKAGE :(

Mik
08-06-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Wikked1
Thanks Guys :)

Fish Oil Burps=SUCKAGE :(

I actually look forward the FOCing burps. :D

EdgarMex
08-06-2003, 11:46 AM
LOL

Fenway
08-06-2003, 01:51 PM
aint that the truth about the burbs... (sic) mine are downright nasty

aka23
08-06-2003, 01:56 PM
The ideal dosage depends on why you are taking the supplements. There would be different recommendations for persons suffering from coronary heart disease, high triglycerides, arthritis, certain types of cancer, or diabetes. A healthy person looking for general benefits or body composition benefits would likely want a different dose. In addition the ideal dosage depends upon your diet and genetics. People who are eating lots of fish or LA sources would need less. People who are eating lots of n-6 fats, trans fats, or unrefined carbs would need more. People who have a genetic tendency to gain fat may benefit more than people who have trouble gaining weight.

For general health purposes, the usual recommendation is 0.2-1.5g EPA/DHA. Fish oils have a large number of possible benefits at both lower doses and higher doses. Much of these benefits are associated with correcting deficiencies and n-6/n-3 ratio issues. As dosage increases certain medical conditions may improve, but the risk of side effects also increases and some of the benefits may diminish. At low doses there is little risk of side effects besides gastrointestinal problems and fishy aftertaste. At high doses, some of the possible side effects are

-- increased cost of supplements
-- increased risk of flatulence and diarrhea
-- glycemic control/diabetes issues
-- LDL cholesterol issues
-- increased risk of bleeding/stroke issues (especially for those on aspirin or anticoagulant therapy)
-- risk of reduced testosterone (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11525593&dopt=Abstract)
-- increased requirement for Vitamin E due to reduced antioxidants in plasma
-- supplements with high Vitamin A (cod liver oil) may increase risk of bone fracture by interfering with vitamin D storing calcium in the bone
-- possible decreased leptin secretion
-- possible contaminant/oxidation issues
-- controversial theory that reduced PG production (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1971442&dopt=Abstract_ ) may negatively effect muscle growth (see http://www.jcb.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/1/111)

Here are some recommendations set by various health organizations:

FDA
The FDA has not set a recommendation. Instead they have set a limit of no more than 2g EPA/DHA for various health related claims.
“We continue to consider the exercise of our enforcement discretion to
be contingent upon dietary supplement labeling to not suggest or
recommend in the labeling, or under ordinary conditions of use,
amounts of EPA and DHA omega-3 fatty acids that would exceed 2 grams
per day. In fact, we continue to encourage manufacturers to limit
recommendations or suggestions of daily intakes in labeling, or under
ordinary conditions of use, to 1 gram or less per day of EPA and DHA
omega-3 fatty acids for an added safety margin and because of the
possibility of benefit at intakes of less than 1 gram per day.”

AHA
-- Heathly Persons – “Eat a variety of (preferably fatty) fish at least twice a week. Include oils and foods rich in alpha-linolenic acid (flaxseed, canola and soybean oils; flaxseed and walnuts).”
-- Persons with coronary heart disease -- 1g EPA/DHA (while consulting with dr)
-- Persons with triglyceride problems -- 2-4g EPA/DHA (while consulting with dr)

British Nutrition Foundation
Fatty fish 2-3x per week or 1-2g EPA/DHA daily

Health & Welfare Canada
18:3n-3 as 0.5% of energy

COMA (Committee on Medical Aspects of Food Policy )
1.5g EPA plus DHA per week

EANS
0.2g EPA/DHA per day for people who do not consume fatty fish

ISSFAL
At least 0.22g EPA/DHA per day

1st Congress on the International Society for the Study of Fatty Acids and Lipids
0.3 to 0.4 g/day EPA and DHA

pusher
08-06-2003, 02:20 PM
AKA, my mother has type 2 diabetes, would 2g a day suit her well, wadday think?

bradley
08-06-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by aka23
[quote]-- risk of reduced testosterone (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11525593&dopt=Abstract)

The above study makes no mention of the amount of n-3 fats used. It also stated that while their was an inverse relationship associated with total testosterone, although free testosterone was not affected by any of the fats studied.



-- controversial theory that reduced PG production (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1971442&dopt=Abstract_ )

Again it makes no mention of the amount of fats that used in the study. While I agree there could be risks associated with excess fish oil consumption I have not seen anything that would convince me that 3g of EPA/DHA would be excessive.

chops
08-06-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by aka23


-- increased risk of flatulence and diarrhea

[b]British Nutrition Foundation
Fatty fish 2-3x per week or 1-2g EPA/DHA daily



to the first: yuck.

to the latter: do you know the number of oz for this recommendation? i consume salmon about 3-4x per week, between 4-6oz each time

bradley
08-06-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by chops


to the first: yuck.

to the latter: do you know the number of oz for this recommendation? i consume salmon about 3-4x per week, between 4-6oz each time

Here is the fat content for a 3oz. piece of Atlantic Salmon (wild)

Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated g 2.158
18:2 undifferentiated g 0.146
18:3 undifferentiated g 0.251
18:4 g 0.071
20:4 undifferentiated g 0.227
20:5 n-3 g 0.273
22:5 n-3 g 0.244
22:6 n-3 g 0.948

According to the above a 3oz. piece of salmon would contain 1.465g of n-3 fats. This amount would vary according to the type of salmon you are eating (wild, farm raised, etc.)

bradley
08-06-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by pusher
my mother has type 2 diabetes, would 2g a day suit her well, wadday think?

Here are some related studies I found in regards to fish oil and diabetes.

This study used 4g or 7g of n-3 fats from fish oil.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3181646&dopt=Abstract
"Dietary-supplementation 1-mo periods of 4.0 and 7.5 g of omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil were compared with a placebo of 12 g safflower oil by use of a single-blind crossover design. Medications, including antidiabetic therapy, were continued through the study. Compared with safflower oil treatment, fish oil supplementation resulted in a significant reduction of total plasma triglycerides of 24% at the 4-g dose and a larger reduction of 39% at the 7.5-g dose. "

Here is one that used 3g of EPA/DHA.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1545765&dopt=Abstract
"In comparison to the placebo rape seed oil supplementation, the fish oil diet effected a decrease of serum triglycerides by 29%. LDL-cholesterol increased by 9%, HDL-cholesterol by 9% (especially HDL2-cholesterol), and apolipoprotein B by 4%. Apolipoprotein A-I was reduced by 9%. The fasting blood glucose and the glucose load test as the insulin level (fasting and after load test) showed no significant changes at the end of the verum period in comparison to the run-in-phase."

aka23
08-06-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by chops
do you know the number of oz for this recommendation? i consume salmon about 3-4x per week, between 4-6oz each time

The British Nutrition Foundation's recommendation appear somewhat complicated. They are summarized at http://www.nutrition.org.uk/medianews/pressinformation/n3fatty.htm
"The Government advises eating one to two portions of oil-rich fish per week. Separately, they have recommended an intake of 1.5 g of EPA/DHA (very long chain n-3 fatty acids) per week (which equates to one small serving). Elsewhere, higher recommendations have been made for intakes of very long chain n-3 fatty acids, some of which equate to 2-3 serving of oil rich fish per week."

This article conflicts with the summary at http://www.hi-dha.com/professionals/profession.html in which they suggest "1,145 mg (women) and 1,430 mg (men) DHA + EPA per day". I suspect that the BNF has changed their mind on this issue or made unclear recommendations. This may explain the daily recommendation for EPA/DHA does not seem equivalent to 2-3 servings of weekly fish.

In addition, the study at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7657477&dopt=Abstract . states that
"The British Nutrition Foundation recommends a daily intake of EPA and DHA in amounts corresponding to the intake of 3 to 4 g standardized fish oil (1-1.5g EPA/DHA). The requirements can also be covered by the weekly consumption of 2 to 3 portions of fatty fish."

Answering your question, elsewhere they stated that 135g was a small portion of fish; so your 4-6 oz seems like a reasonable estimate. A summary of the EPA/DHA content of salmon and other foods can be found at http://www.cardiacconsultants.com/fishoilomega.htm .

aka23
08-06-2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by pusher
AKA, my mother has type 2 diabetes, would 2g a day suit her well, wadday think?

Some studies have suggested that fish oil can help prevent diabetes. An example is described at http://www.omega3fishoil.org/fishoilresearch.asp?id=28 . Some other similar studies have not found this effect. Much of the insulin sensitivity benefits seem limited to rats. I think the largest benefit to a diabetic person would be in aid for treating common complications of diabetes such as hypertriglycerides. The issues I mentioned about glycemic control are generally related to larger doses than the 2g/day you suggested, used continuously for long periods. A more detailed analysis is described at http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0CUH/9_23/65650439/p1/article.jhtml?term=fish+oil . However, some diabetics have negative effects at significantly lower doses than average. It would probably be a good idea to check with her doctor before beginning.

Frankster
08-14-2003, 03:57 PM
I bought The GNC brand of Fish Body Oil, it's the good stuff right?

bradley
08-14-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Frankster
I bought The GNC brand of Fish Body Oil, it's the good stuff right?

Those will work fine, but for future reference I would try to find some fish oil with a higher EPA/DHA content. I believe the GNC brand contains 180mg EPA and 120mg DHA, and I am sure you could find some cheaper with a higher amount of EPA/DHA.

Frankster
08-14-2003, 04:34 PM
ah ok, thanks :) yeah they're 180/120

Delphi
08-14-2003, 04:55 PM
Here's a brand that's available in my town at a local health food store. Maybe you can find it locally. If not, I'm sure you can get it online just about anywhere.

http://www.iherb.com/omega36.html

Frankster
08-14-2003, 05:26 PM
Cool, next time, I'll look for more EPA/DHA, I didn't know what I was really looking for other than fish oil today :), thanks for the advice. This bottle was not very expensive anways, so I'll just take a bit more pills.