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unshift
08-10-2003, 05:10 PM
i'm about to start a massive cut (hoping for 80lbs or so in the next 10 months) on a powerlifting/olympic lifting-oriented program doing cardio 3-5 times a week in the morning (HIIT is not really an option, though i might be able to stick it in there somewhere)

since i'll be doing this on dorm food, with no real way to count calories, i was thinking maybe a keto type of diet would be best. it will be easy for me to eat plenty of protein and fat, and carbs are far too plentiful at school and difficult to count, so i was thinking of just getting rid of them alltogether (except for pre/post workout).

i can get plenty of whey, natural peanut butter, and fish/flax oil to supplement the seemingly worthless dorm food with. is this a good idea? and can i still look for strength (not muscle mass) gains?

bradley
08-10-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by unshift
since i'll be doing this on dorm food, with no real way to count calories, i was thinking maybe a keto type of diet would be best. it will be easy for me to eat plenty of protein and fat, and carbs are far too plentiful at school and difficult to count, so i was thinking of just getting rid of them alltogether (except for pre/post workout).

Even though you are thinking about performing a keto diet you would still have to have an idea of how many cals you are eating. What I am getting at is that ketosis is not going to cause weight loss in itself, and total calorie balance at the end of the day will be the main determining factor as to whether you lose weight.

If you are trying to lose 80lbs. I am assuming you have a relatively high bf%, so you could possibly add some LBM while losing bf. You will pretty much eliminate any chance of this occuring if you were to follow a ketogenic diet.



i can get plenty of whey, natural peanut butter, and fish/flax oil to supplement the seemingly worthless dorm food with. is this a good idea? and can i still look for strength (not muscle mass) gains?

Well peanut butter would not really be the ideal food for a keto diet because of the carb content, but you could use it sparingly.

Anyway, you might see some small strength gains, which could be attributed to neural adaptation, etc. but I doubt you will see much in the way of actual LBM gains. As I stated above you would have a much better chance of gaining LBM if you were to follow a more balanced diet.

In the end it will come down to what you are able to stick with, and if you think a keto diet will work for you then go for it. I am not saying that it will not work, but I tend to think a more balanced diet is better in the long run. Best of luck with the diet.:)

Courtney
08-10-2003, 05:34 PM
Who is your catering service for the dining hall that you eat at? I know when I went to college, it was Marriott. They had nutritional information on the dishes they served (same stuff in rotation every week, bleh). That might help you decide what stuff they have is ok to eat.

See if you can contact them and get that info.

Also, if they have a salad bar, they often have fresh vegetables like broccoli and cauliflower included. You can make a big pile and nuke them to steam them.

unshift
08-10-2003, 05:51 PM
If you are trying to lose 80lbs. I am assuming you have a relatively high bf%, so you could possibly add some LBM while losing bf. You will pretty much eliminate any chance of this occuring if you were to follow a ketogenic diet.

is this still true if i already have a considerable amount of LBM? i've been lifting for about a year now (lost 30lbs last summer, then gained back 10 during school, and another 10 this summer cause i started power/olympic liftingm so i still need to diet most of it off)

as for what i can stick to, i'm only going to be able to get rough calorie totals at best, if any. here's roughly what i'm thinking of in terms of diet:

~8am pre-cardio:
20g whey

~9am post-cardio:
20g whey, 1 cup oatmeal

~10am breakfast:
eggs (fake eggs, how healthy are they?), maybe some cereal, glass of milk, water

~1pm lunch:
beef of chicken burrito with cheese, salad, scoop of peanut butter (non-natural)

~3:30pm pre-workout

workout

~5pm post-workout
40g whey

~5-6pm dinner:
chicken/steak, veggies

~8pm post-dinner:
fruit
fish oil/flax oil

~11pm pre-bedtime
whey mixed with milk
natural PB&J

schedule for MWF is different than TR, but it's easy enough to adapt the time. does a daily time change help metabolism at all, or help my body from getting used to the same amount of intake? this is definitely going to be tough but if i can stay focused, who knows :)

BTW -- where can i get a decent pair of bodyfat calipers?

Spartacus
08-10-2003, 06:54 PM
why does ketogenic eliminate muscle gains? is it because you need glucose for your workout, or because you need insulin to grow?

bradley
08-11-2003, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by unshift
is this still true if i already have a considerable amount of LBM? i've been lifting for about a year now (lost 30lbs last summer, then gained back 10 during school, and another 10 this summer cause i started power/olympic liftingm so i still need to diet most of it off)

I am not saying that you will gain LBM while cutting on a balanced diet, but the chances would be a lot better following a more balanced diet with a small calorie deficit as opposed to a ketogenic diet.

There is nothing special about ketosis and in the end calorie balance is going to be the determining factor as to whether you lose weight or not. Again it really comes down to what is going to work the best for you.



as for what i can stick to, i'm only going to be able to get rough calorie totals at best, if any.

You really don't have to know exactly how many cals you are eating each day, and basically if you are eating pretty much the same thing each week it will be even easier. If you are eating the same thing each week then just decrease you food intake by a small amount each week until you are losing the desired amount of weight each week.



~10am breakfast:
eggs (fake eggs, how healthy are they?), maybe some cereal, glass of milk, water


When you say fake eggs are you referring to something similar to egg beaters? If in doubt I would follow Courtney's advice and ask one of the cafeteria employees about the nutrition information.

Also if you are trying to decrease cals, eliminating milk would be an easy place to start.



~3:30pm pre-workout


What are you taking in pre-workout? Small amount of carbs and protein would be my recommendation.



~5pm post-workout
40g whey


Add some carbs in post workout.



~11pm pre-bedtime
whey mixed with milk
natural PB&J


If possible you might think about cottage cheese instead of the whey, which would probably help more with appetite control as opposed to the whey and milk.

Also throw in some more n-3 fats throughout the day.:)



schedule for MWF is different than TR, but it's easy enough to adapt the time. does a daily time change help metabolism at all, or help my body from getting used to the same amount of intake? this is definitely going to be tough but if i can stay focused, who knows :)


I am not really for sure, but I doubt it. Although you might think about adding in some HIIT cardio a couple of times a week which would be a good addition to a cutting diet.

bradley
08-11-2003, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Spartacus
why does ketogenic eliminate muscle gains? is it because you need glucose for your workout, or because you need insulin to grow?

The main reason would be the effect that ketogenic diets have on your hormone levels (insulin, glucagon, IGF-1, catecholamines, etc.). The lack of glucose would kind of go hand-in-hand with my previous statement.

I am not saying that it is impossible to gain muscle while following a ketogenic diet, but I the chances are highly unlikely.

unshift
08-11-2003, 05:21 PM
If possible you might think about cottage cheese instead of the whey, which would probably help more with appetite control as opposed to the whey and milk.

i tried that already, and i don't think its going to happen :) the texture of cottage cheese makes me gag

also -- any recommendations if some of the prepared food is calorie "inflated", that is has extra cals added to it from sauces and whatnot? are there any weight-loss friendly condiments (and salad dressings) that should be readily available? i konw creamy italian dressing and ketchup won't really help :)

bradley
08-12-2003, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by unshift
i tried that already, and i don't think its going to happen :) the texture of cottage cheese makes me gag

The milk and whey will work just fine.:)



also -- any recommendations if some of the prepared food is calorie "inflated", that is has extra cals added to it from sauces and whatnot?

You can try to get them to leave the sauce off, but I know that is usually not an option. The best thing that I know of is to just try and eat around it, or remove what sauce you can.



are there any weight-loss friendly condiments (and salad dressings) that should be readily available? i konw creamy italian dressing and ketchup won't really help :)

Sure, some that come to mind are vinegar (and a little olive oil) for salads. Other things that come to mind are mustard, Tabasco, lemon juice, Mrs. Dash, any type of dried spices/herbs (cinnamon, etc.).

You are right about the salad dressings, and even the fat free versions can add a couple hundred cals if you are not careful.

missfit_canada
08-12-2003, 03:26 AM
What kind of meal plan does your cafeteria have?
When I lived in residence I had a mini fridge in my room as well as a toaster oven and an eletric kettle (the kind where the top lid can come off) and I could cook a lot of great stuff. As for the caf, we were required to get a meal plan so I usually got the medium one and ate lots from the salad bar. We also convinced food services to do a 'made to order' stir-fry bar which was great.

However, lots of the food was junk...chicken strips, baked goods, lasagna (well that's what they called it). Everything full of fat and carbs. The chicken was breaded or 'sauced'. However, there were certain times of the day when you could order from the grill and could get chicken breast sometimes.

I'd say get a mini fridge and also bring tupperware with you to the caf so when there is an entree that you can eat you can stock up and eat it for the next few days.

When I lived in res I wasn't competing...and I don't think it would have been easy. You could always keep putting in special requests to the caf for food you can eat...if you keep bugging them they may start to listen!! And everyone would benefit...ugh, I don't even want to think about how much weight we all gained on 'caf food'.

Good luck!!

unshift
08-12-2003, 05:58 PM
thanks for the advice :)

the meal plan i have is "unlimited" -- that is, unlimited cafeteria access (they charge based on how many times you enter, not how much you eat) which runs from 7am-8pm i believe.

i'm definitely getting a mini fridge, so i'll have some natural PB, bread, some milk, etc. in my room to snack on. i think i'll also go for more veggies to feel full and maybe cut down on the rest of the dinner portion because it's loaded with empty calories. i can always have whey or MRPs for extra protein.

it will definitely be tough, but during school my activity level goes up considerably (i have to walk everywhere, etc.), plus i think i'll add in some AM cardio on top of my lifting. i know if i can get my diet sorted out then it should be a hell of a lot easier, but i'm definitely struggling with it.

i'll also ask my aunt about it, she's a nutritionist and former ameteur bodybuilder. maybe she'll have some tips for me :)

and next year, i'm definitely getting an apartment, so i can cook my OWN food! i'm sick of being fat :cool:

missfit_canada
08-14-2003, 01:54 AM
What school are you going to?

After 2 years in res I got an apartment with a kitchen and it was heaven!!