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Frankster
08-15-2003, 12:31 PM
Ok, so I'm trying to get to under 6% bf, I think I'm currently in the 8-9% range.
In the last two weeks I have only cheated for one evening, so not a complete cheat day, but just an evening, last friday.
I was wondering if the more lower you get in % bf, the more frequent refeeds you need? At this point I'm so close to my goal, I don't want to make anything to screw it up. My calories are very low (around 1,000).
Should I have another cheat evening this weekend, a cheat day? Two refeed days? Or should I just not have any at all until maybe next weekend.

WillKuenzel
08-15-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Frankster
I don't want to make anything to screw it up. My calories are very low (around 1,000).

:eek: Do what? I'm cutting and I'm eating 3 times that. I know I don't weigh 3 times what you way either.

I'm around 7% and I refeed every 3-5 days (based off my diet cycle). From everything I've read, you should refeed more often as your bf% gets lower. Normally a 12 hour refeed is all I need but during that time I push 4000-4500 calories. I don't think anything longer is necessary and is normally overkill.

Sinep
08-15-2003, 12:45 PM
Is the temptation getting to you ? hehe, betcha it does at 1000cals :eek: I'm at ~2200 and I feel like cheating too. Don't expect a definite answer, do what you have to do. Instead of having a cheat day, perhaps just have a cheat meal.

raniali
08-15-2003, 01:18 PM
how do you function, let alone continue to lift on 1000 cal/day?
your my hero.

bradley
08-15-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Frankster
I was wondering if the more lower you get in % bf, the more frequent refeeds you need?

In general, yes, but this would also depend on other factors as well (degree of calorie deficit, bodyfat setpoint, etc.)



At this point I'm so close to my goal, I don't want to make anything to screw it up. My calories are very low (around 1,000).
Should I have another cheat evening this weekend, a cheat day? Two refeed days? Or should I just not have any at all until maybe next weekend.

Refeeds can either be short and more frequent, or longer and less frequent. If you are having to cut cals that low to see any fat loss I would imagine that a refeed would be beneficial.

I would go so far as to say a short refeed every 3-4 days would be beneficial, and would not cause any visible fat gain if performed properly.

Keep protein intake moderate and carbs high, and also make sure to take in some of those fish oils you bought the other day.;) Other than the fish oils, keep fat to a minimum.

WillKuenzel
08-15-2003, 02:11 PM
Bradley, about how many FOC would you recommend to be optimal, if all other fat is kept very minimal?

bradley
08-15-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by HomeYield
Bradley, about how many FOC would you recommend to be optimal, if all other fat is kept very minimal?

Most of the recommendations that I have seen say 10-20g over the course of the refeed. When carb intake is high less of the fish oil will be oxidized for fuel, so therefore more of the fish oil will be stored in the cells.

Frankster
08-15-2003, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the answers. I'm at 1,000 calories, but I'm pretty different than most people I think, I never had a big appetite, and when I was bulking I could gain like 30 lbs in a month or two, with probably around 3,000 to 4,000 calories.
The beginning is the worst to function at 1,000 cal, but Now I'm not too bad aside from the extreme diet rages :p. I'm also tiny right now, only 145 lbs.
I eat around 160-180 g protein per day, not much carbs and fat is minimal (except the fish oils ;) )
My strenght hasn't gotten down too much which is nice. I think I would gain a good 10 lbs easily once I finish the diet without adding any noticeable bf increase.

Thanks for the answers, I guess I'll just see how I feel, If I can't take the temptation this weekend, I'll go for it knowing it won't do any harm.

bradley
08-15-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Frankster
The beginning is the worst to function at 1,000 cal, but Now I'm not too bad aside from the extreme diet rages :p. I'm also tiny right now, only 145 lbs.




Thanks for the answers, I guess I'll just see how I feel, If I can't take the temptation this weekend, I'll go for it knowing it won't do any harm.

The two statements above would lead me to believe that a refeed would be beneficial. When you get extreme hunger cravings, this is a good sign that it is time to refeed, and if you do it before the cravings get too bad you can prevent binges on foods that would be more likely to cause fat gain. Think of refeeds as a precautionary measure.:)

Frankster
08-15-2003, 04:30 PM
Ok, so the re-feed should be with clean foods, but high in carbs and and fat from fish oils?

Sinep
08-15-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by raniali
how do you function, let alone continue to lift on 1000 cal/day?
your my hero.
before my show I was on 250cal. a day , cardio twice a day and working out.

Frankster
08-15-2003, 04:54 PM
Jesus.. How the Hell can you do two sessions of cardio on 250 cal
I feel like fainting just thinking about it
:cry:

bradley
08-15-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Frankster
Ok, so the re-feed should be with clean foods, but high in carbs and and fat from fish oils?

That is pretty much it. Keep your cals slightly above maintenance level (1.1-1.2*maintenance), protein at ~1g per lb. of bw, fat intake to a minimum (except for the fish oils and the trace amount you will get from the foods you are eating), and then fill in the rest of the cals with carbs.

I would start the refeed after a training session, and then towards the last meal switch over to lower GI carbs.

Carbs can come from pretty much anything that has no fat, and remember to keep an eye on the fructose you are consuming.

bagels
kid cereals
pasta
pretzels
oatmeal
rice
you get the picture:)

Frankster
08-15-2003, 09:55 PM
cool, thanks buddy.

JuniorMint6669
08-16-2003, 08:27 AM
Bradley, why do you recommend starting a refeed after a training session? I've always liked to do my refeeds starting the morning of a training day (normally leg day), so that I get to put the extra energy boost to good use. But I had never thought of starting a refeed after training, as the benefit of this is not obvious to me at the moment, could you please explain :D thanks!

Frankster
08-16-2003, 10:07 AM
My guess is that being on a diet with such a caloric deficit and still weight-training, my muscles are starving for protein and glycogen, starting the re-feed after the training makes sense because the muscles would just absorb a whole bunch of what you eat.
Lets wait for the expert to answer though ;)

harryhoudini66
08-16-2003, 11:33 AM
This is what I plan on eatin for refeed:

Bagels
Oatmeal
Cheerios
Pasta
Bread
Bread Stix
Potato
Rice
Beans

You guys have anymore suggetions?

Frankster
08-16-2003, 12:31 PM
Also when you kid cereal, you mean the high-sugar ones are ok too? Is it because they contain glucose instead of fructose?

bradley
08-16-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by JuniorMint6669
Bradley, why do you recommend starting a refeed after a training session? I've always liked to do my refeeds starting the morning of a training day (normally leg day), so that I get to put the extra energy boost to good use. But I had never thought of starting a refeed after training, as the benefit of this is not obvious to me at the moment, could you please explain :D thanks!

It would be fine to start your refeed before your training session, especially if you are trying to judge your strength level or maybe increase strength.

When you train before starting the refeed you are further depleting you glycogen stores, and you can think of it as "priming" your body for the large amount of carbs that you are about to consume. After training you would have an increase insulin sensitivity, etc. which would allow you to store glycogen in the muscles at an accelerated rate. This would be as opposed to just waking up and starting your refeed.

bradley
08-16-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Frankster
Also when you kid cereal, you mean the high-sugar ones are ok too? Is it because they contain glucose instead of fructose?

Yes the high sugar ones.:D

Although most of these types of cereals are sweetened with sucrose (glucose/fructose), and you would need to keep an eye on your overall fructose intake over the duration of the refeed. This should not be a concern if this is the only source of fructose during your refeed.

bradley
08-16-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by harryhoudini66
This is what I plan on eatin for refeed:

Bagels
Oatmeal
Cheerios
Pasta
Bread
Bread Stix
Potato
Rice
Beans

You guys have anymore suggetions?

Maybe a little fat free ice cream for dessert;)

harryhoudini66
08-16-2003, 06:08 PM
How about protein intake. SHould there be more focus on carbs then protein? all I have eatn today is high card low protein.

harryhoudini66
08-16-2003, 11:02 PM
I am carbo loading on Cherry Garcia Ice cream right now.

bradley
08-17-2003, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by harryhoudini66
How about protein intake. SHould there be more focus on carbs then protein? all I have eatn today is high card low protein.

You still need to get ~1g per lb. of protein.



I am carbo loading on Cherry Garcia Ice cream right now.


I don't consider full fat ice cream the best choice for carb loads, due to the high fat content, but a little will not hurt you. Fat intake should be kept to a minimum when performing a carb, as previously mentioned.

rgkfit
08-17-2003, 08:16 AM
A refeed should be more frequent the lower in bodyfat you get. Twice per week, Mondays and Thursdays are good for this. Actually to have your last meal at night is good, keeping metabolism up and a bit of glycogen storage as well. There should be no protein involved in this meal, you don't want spillover. The amount of calories contained in it should be according to bodyweight too,not just haphazardly. It is very tricky getting to contest type bf's. Not like a simple cutting diet.

bradley
08-17-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by rgkfit
A refeed should be more frequent the lower in bodyfat you get. Twice per week, Mondays and Thursdays are good for this. Actually to have your last meal at night is good, keeping metabolism up and a bit of glycogen storage as well. There should be no protein involved in this meal, you don't want spillover. The amount of calories contained in it should be according to bodyweight too,not just haphazardly. It is very tricky getting to contest type bf's. Not like a simple cutting diet.

A refeed would consist of more than one meal, and causing spillover into fat cells is the whole purpose behind refeeds. When you have spillover into fat cells, you will have an increase in leptin levels.

It seems as though you are comparing a refeed to a carb up when performing an NHE diet.

harryhoudini66
08-17-2003, 11:35 AM
Thanks Bradley, Cherry Garcia is actually low fat.

http://www.benjerry.com/our_products/nutritional_info.cfm?product_id=10&name=Cherry%20Garcia%AE&type=Low%20Fat%20Frozen%20Yogurt&form=Pints

bradley
08-17-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by harryhoudini66
Thanks Bradley, Cherry Garcia is actually low fat.

http://www.benjerry.com/our_products/nutritional_info.cfm?product_id=10&name=Cherry%20Garcia%AE&type=Low%20Fat%20Frozen%20Yogurt&form=Pints

I was not thinking in terms of frozen yogurt, but I hope it was tasty.:D

harryhoudini66
08-17-2003, 11:46 AM
very...mmmmm.

Frankster
08-17-2003, 01:51 PM
Bastards, get the hell out of my thread with your ben and jerry's

universal
08-19-2003, 08:06 AM
haha i get the lowfat jerry garcia 2...it was the only lowfat ben and jerrys i could find :)

Frankster
08-23-2003, 02:04 PM
I thoughed it out and didn't cheat last weekend when I wrote this thread, but this weekend is another story... yippee

harryhoudini66
08-23-2003, 05:17 PM
Found a new flavor of BEN AND JERRY'S. It is Half Baked.

I am eating it right now and it is the bomb.

http://www.benjerry.com/our_products/flavor_details.cfm?product_flavor_type_id=26

WestyHeadbanger
08-23-2003, 10:13 PM
Frankster:

I reccomend for u the "Maccas Diet".

Frankster
08-27-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by WestyHeadbanger
Frankster:

I reccomend for u the "Maccas Diet".

What is that diet, and why do you recommend it for me?
I'm around 7% bf, just looking to loose about 1-2% more.