Gamma Hydroxy-Butyrate

[Hatred]

Ok figured that would get your attention.....
This is not a "should I do it or not?" question.
I want to know how this stuff works.
I.e.why/how does it give you a "swirl"
I am looking for technical info if anyone has it to offer.
what is it affecting/altering/damaging that gives the intoxicated effects? Why do you get a phenomenal pump on it? Why does it release growth hormone?
I am pretty sure I know where my answer will come from.
Thanks for any educational input in advance.

[Spiderman]

The growth hormone it releases is so small.. it hardly makes any difference at all.

[Hatred]

That I kind of figure otherwise everyone would br pounding G instead of Getting HGH kits.
What causes the release?
To be perfectly honest...
Next cycle and now actually....I will not be drinking alcohol.
I used to do some really stupid $hit. But never again I walked away a long time ago. Here is my logic for what I know now.(I may be further educated otherwise.)

Alcohol is excess carbs,
will destroy your liver(especially if on orals)
is too damned expensive in clubs
a lot of liquid consumed
and basically not something I want to do anymore considering alternatives.(G)

GHB
1 cap gives about the same effect.
no carbs,excess fluid,liver damage.
getting one oz. is cheaper than a night at the club and will last for a few weekends.
and as a bonus releases GH.
and from what I hear enhances workouts.(heresay as I have not attempted)

This is my reasoning for my question.
From what I know it seems like the better alternative to drinking.
But then again what do I know? There is more collective knowledge here than I will ever encounter in people in person.
I am aware there is risk in everything.
what is the inherent risk here?

[tony touch]

1 cap will enhance ur sleep helluva lot.

pure g is rare, its usually cut with something.

most g is bathrub brew

not sure the chemical pathways for it releasing growth hormone but i can tell u, it doesnt make a ****ing difference.

if u get caught with g, ur ****ed. they will tag u as a rapist (date rape drug)

get a lil careless with dosage, (very very easily happens) and ur g-ing out. NOT FUN. can u say trip to ER? Possible death? seriously not fun bro.

[BUFF STUFF]

There was a time you could order it from BBing mags, now like tony said it is branded a rapist`s tool.

Always wanted to try GHB, its never been availble. Girls get all the fun, Drinks bought for them & free GHB. No Fair!

[handler]

yes pure GHB is rare,and most of the **** out now is dangerous.Back in the day GHB was legal and I used it >I bought it at a health food store>as usually happens careless *******s got a hold of it,abused it and focus was put on it as this happened more losers heard about it abused it more and made sure it became illegal>like very thing else idiots ruin it for everyone>I never had any noticable effect on gains but it was nice to take at night it guarenteed a solid deep sleep,(the theory is it released GH) but like said above not anything noticable.another good product ruined by the careless just as ephedrine and many others are getting scrutinized lately they will become victims too.see my post titlesd "please read they are at it again"if we dont take action,we will be buying ephedrine by prescription and many other good products are going to become scheduled drugs!!!!!

[Scott S]

I thought it was more of a party drug... what is it supposed to do for bodybuilding?

[handler]

I cut and pasted this from Iron Mgazine
GHB is now only known as a party drug thanks to careless drug addicts and stupid kids>it is best for BB to use to get into a deep sleep,in theory this would release GH,but at any rate it maximized rest,and when use properly was safe....
GHB and Bodybuilding: Direct Effects


Does GHB truly have a place in a bodybuilder's arsenal, or is the whole GH thing just an excuse to get twisted?? I believe it does have a place -- though, as I will show, many of its positive effects o_n body composition are more indirect than direct.

The first thing we should look at is its most commonly touted effect -- its stimulation of Growth Hormone release. It has, in fact, been found to raise growth hormone levels sharply in numerous studies (23, 30, 33). Some have claimed that these increases are o_nly with intravenous administration or are the indirect result of GHB inducing sleep, as the o_nset of slow wave sleep is associated with increased GH levels. However, studies using oral delivery, have indeed shown increases in conscious subjects (23,30). With administration of 1.5 g of GHB, GH levels begin to rise almost immediately, reaching a peak of 3 times normal levels within 45 minutes, then rapidly falling back to within 25% of baseline by the 90 minute mark. Clearly, it does increase growth hormone.

Nonetheless, reports in both the literature and the real world o_n body composition, even with growth hormone injections, have been something less than spectacular. In the literature, GH has been shown to increase protein synthesis, however, it is not contractile protein (muscle) but rather visceral (organs) (34). Data o_n fat loss and muscle sparing with GH is a bit better. It has been shown to inhibit protein breakdown during dieting and fasting, leading to increased retention of muscle mass (35) . It is also known to be lipolytic (36). Real world reports of GH run along the same lines -- it not effective o_n its own for increasing muscle, but an increase it fat loss is definitely noticeable. But, again, this is with injections. o_nce a day use of GHB is not likely to mirror these effects. However, if someone would like to take 1.5 grams every 90 minutes for an extended period, please report back with your results.

At doses of 2.5 - 3.5 grams, GHB causes increased release of prolactin, doubling levels by the 45 minute mark, followed by a gradual return to baseline (33). Increases in prolactin have been shown to proportionally raise leptin levels, so this represents a possible positive effect o_n fat loss and muscle retention (37). Unfortunately, similar doses also raise cortisol levels, which has exactly the opposite effect of leptin o_n body composition (33). This antagonism might account for the lack of effects observed with GHB, and could perhaps be remedied with a drugs or supplement such as Cytadren or phosphatidylserine.

In addition to these, there are several other lesser known effects of GHB which have implications for bodybuilders. It increases gastric emptying (38), which is likely what causes the temporary increase in appetite observed with GHB use . Obviously, this is not particularly beneficial o_n a diet, though it might be o_n a mass phase. It also would likely make a good addition to a post-workout drink, as it would make glucose and amino acids available more quickly. Increased protein synthesis in brain and gastric tissues has been reported, whether this is accompanied by increased skeletal muscle synthesis is not known (39). Obese rats were found to have lower brain levels of GHB than their lean counterparts, despite identical diet, which suggests GHB as a potential signaler in the regulation of bodyweight (40) -- GHB metabolite GABA increases with fat feeding, which lends further support to this hypothesis. It has been shown to function as a powerful an antioxidant, blocking free-radical formation and lipid peroxidation (10). This could aid in recovery, as well as in overall health.

One of the more fascinating possibilities, comes from a study in rats (21) which showed a remarkable increase in body temperature after administration of very low doses. Following intraperitoneal injection of 5mg/kg, body temperature rose rapidly to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit above normal at 15 minutes, and reached a peak of almost 2.2 degrees at the hour mark. It was still elevated by 2 degrees at the 75 minute mark, and dropping o_nly quite gradually -- in humans, this would be a profound thermogenic effect (Clenbuterol might raise body temperature by 1 degree).

Considering GHB has a half-life of 5 minutes after injection (41), it would seem that GHB was not directly mediating these effects, but rather caused the release of something with a longer half-life. I am going to go out o_n a limb a bit and propose that the mediator might be norepinephrine -- which has a peripheral half-life of several hours -- as long as 12 in some tissues (42 ).

As mentioned above, GHB does not seem to effect central norepinephrine levels, however it HAS been shown to effect peripheral levels -- with high doses causing profound depletion of heart and brown fat norepinephrine levels (10). And, perhaps not coincidentally, in contrast to the increase in body temperature with the low dose, these high doses consistently cause a DECREASE in body temperature (21, 43). As we have seen, GHB has been conclusively shown to exert a biphasic effect o_n dopamine, so the possibility certainly exists with this compound.

I want to make clear that the above is very speculative, both as to why it occurred and to its having any relevancy toward humans. First, it is o_nly o_ne study. Second, it used intraperitoneal injections rather than oral administration. Third, the mechanisms were not looked at. And fourth, rats have much higher levels of brown fat, thus the thermogenic effects of an increase in norepinephrine would be exaggerated compared to humans.

Nonetheless, it is certainly enticing enough to give a try, with a couple of adjustments that take into account the use of human subjects (I would not expect the pharmacokinetics of oral and i.p. administration to be significantly different with this low of doses). GHB is metabolized by rats much faster than humans, thus a lower dose would be recommended. I would estimate 1-2mg/kg at most -- meaning around 100-200 mg for a 200 lb person -- this is a tiny dose -- o_ne which would produce no subjective psychological effects and, in fact, probably no increase in brain GHB levels (21).



Indirect Effects


Perhaps the most important applications of GHB for bodybuilders do not involve direct effects o_n hormones or hormone systems, anabolic or otherwise. The first is that GHB is a MAGNIFICENT sleep aid. As mentioned previously, at sufficient doses, it rapidly and predictably causes the o_nset of a sedation which has been characterized as identical to human sleep (17), but with a greater portion of the time spent in stage IV and R.E.M. sleep (44), which are the most beneficial for recovery. I trust I do not need to mention the importance of sleep for a bodybuilder. I trust I also do not need to mention the detrimental effect o_n sleep of certain common components of the bodybuilding arsenal such as EC and androgens. I will mention that GHB makes waking up in the middle of the night for a protein shake much more feasible. And, again, I trust that I do not have to mention the effects of a 6-10 hour fast o_n the anabolic/catabolic state of the body.

The other application for GHB is as an alcohol substitute. In addition to containing 105 calories per drink -- more if you are having beer, alcohol lowers testosterone (45) and has a tendency to cause less than optimal workouts the following day. As dedicated as we might be to improving our bodies, most of us do not want to be a slave to this pursuit when it comes to socializing/partying.

GHB is a life saver here. Its biochemical, electrophysiological, and and pharmacological effects are quite similar to alcohol (46, 47). And, in fact, it has been successfully used clinically in the treatment of alcohol dependency, where it is thought to work through a substitution mechanism -- meaning it mimics alcohol's actions o_n the central nervous system (46). Both activate the dopamine system -- a characteristic commonly shared by drugs of abuse, they exhibit cross-tolerance -- meaning frequent consumption of o_ne causes tolerance to the other, and both are preferentially (vs. water) self-administered by rats (16).

Subjectively, the effects are not identical. Some prefer a GHB intoxication to alcohol, some the vice versa. I find GHB to be more sedating and slightly less uninhibiting than alcohol, but I know others for whom the opposite is true. Without question, o_ne feels considerably better the next day with GHB vs. alcohol.

A combination of the two can allow a a ****faced intoxication subjectively quite similar to that produced by alcohol, but with the consumption of o_nly a few drinks, thus o_nly a few hundred calories. It is typically strongly suggested that the two not be combined, with the argument that they have synergistic effects. However, based both o_n experience and the available scientific data, I tend to think the effects are mostly additive. Thus, I do not necessarily consider this activity contraindicated. The problem is that downing a "cap full" of GHB is like bonging a 6 pack, so for someone who is already quite intoxicated, this can put them over the edge.

Also, keep in mind that the metabolism of the two drugs are different -- GHB's in not saturable at typically utilized doses, thus it has a half-life (of probably 1 hr when taken orally), while alcohol's is quite saturable, thus o_nly o_ne drink is metabolized per hour -- meaning if o_ne has 6g of GHB and 6 drinks at hour o_ne (do not do this), at hour three, you would have o_nly 1.5g of GHB in your system, but 4 drinks. As you can see, if o_ne kept drinking, as the night went o_n, it would get a bit complicated, so if you do experiment with this combination, start with small amounts until you get a feel for it.

[atom]

from personal experiance guys ,stay away from that ****, it is very additive, i started on 5ml before bed then it just got out of control , it supreses your seratoneing levels way to much,and in my opinion it is liquid SMACK,most of the stuff on the market isn"t even ghb its sodium oxibate , which is a compound of ghb , i used to make the **** and the main ingrediant is caustic soda, this stuff will rot your guts , long use releases cortisol, which is the last thing you want, the people who say it great for bb are the ones who tend to sell the **** and beleive me they make a lot of money doing so ,one last thing ive lost 2 friends to this so called good bb drug and its ****ed up others , it nealy got me!

[handler]

Ok ill agree the stuff on the streets is crap and most likely dangerous>I am sorry to hear you lost freind to GHB>To make a blanket statement that it is just simply dangerous altogether is ludacris....Some people have addcitive personalties ,People like this should steer clear of this>idiots should steer clear of GHB,drug addicts should steer clear,kids should steer clear>if you are a responsible adult and have acess to real pure GHB(which is very hard to get although possible)Do your homework and use it.It is dangerous in the wrong hands.Idiots are the ones that give things like this a bad name and make them illegal>I like GHB ,I like the deep state of sleep it puts me in,I feel for this reason alone it is positive for My BB program>I think GHB when used correctly is safer than valium and xanax (which are both physically addictive but effective too)GHB made with caustic soda?Maybe the bathtub crap from the internet recipe you use has caustic soda in it.........Me ,I just think it would be nice to still be able to buy GHB at the store(high grade pure) ....but thanks to the fools a and idiots I no longer have that option!!!!!!!

[tony touch]

its not worth it. not worth it.not worth it. not worth it.


is it getting thru to anybody?

[Scott S]

Yep. Sounds like it's definitely not worth it.

[handler]

yeah we understand its not worth it!!!!!! Some people must have addictive personalities here!!!!!Jesus guys better be careful with the ephedrine too might get a little jumpy and have a heart attack!!!!!and oh my god did you know that there are all kind of weird side effects from anabolics too!!!!!!!my gosh steer clear of the juice as well,DNP ,my god its so bad lets not even discuss it!!!!and oh and from prohormones youll get prostrate cancer .... really people while I agree GHB on the street is garbage that I wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole,I used good pure store bought GHB for years with no ill effects as did many others I know......So be a little less dramatic,this stuff like anything else got a bad name from abusers,and if your opinion differs..... my best guess is you are brainwashed by propaganda put out by the DEA and FDA or you have just never used pure GHB and can only comment on the street crap

[tony touch]

well handler, do u still get ur G at GNC>? b\c i sure as hell cant.

o by the way, u compared a totally unregulated illegal drug to an otc supplement(ephedra)

ur comparison to DNP totally sucks b\c DNP is absolutely awesome at what it does...burning bodyfat and preserving muscle.too bad the effective dosage is so close to its lethal limits. again, this is another substance not worth it.

now steroids r totally unregulated (unfortunately) but people take the risk b\c it works. GHB doesnt work for a bodybuilder and there r better substitutes for sleep enhancement.

if ur stuck on using a drug for sleep enhancement, wouldnt taking a regulated presecription drug b safer?

[handler]

Originally posted by tony touch
well handler, do u still get ur G at GNC>? b\c i sure as hell cant.

o by the way, u compared a totally unregulated illegal drug to an otc supplement(ephedra)

ur comparison to DNP totally sucks b\c DNP is absolutely awesome at what it does...burning bodyfat and preserving muscle.too bad the effective dosage is so close to its lethal limits. again, this is another substance not worth it.

now steroids r totally unregulated (unfortunately) but people take the risk b\c it works. GHB doesnt work for a bodybuilder and there r better substitutes for sleep enhancement.

if ur stuck on using a drug for sleep enhancement, wouldnt taking a regulated presecription drug b safer?
ephedras over the counter now but for how long?GHb used to be over the counter too.....

I never bought GHB at gnc,and wouldnt shop there they suck.....No i dont still get GHB over the counter and I dont use it anymore because good quality is scarce

DNP ,is only lethal if you are a fool and use it improperly.I have found it to be very,very effective at much lower doses than is even near lethal and yet agin another good drug with a horrible reputation because of a few kooks that didnt do their homework,Yes i am not getting into the whole DNP issue now,it has its downsides but I dont feel like writing on all this now,It is not lethal if used properly ,many are irresposible and live with the more is best concept which most certainly doesnt apply to DNP!!!!

Yes there are all kinds of other substitutes for sleep,but that isnt the point>i like GHB ,I found GHB to be effective,and I never had any adverse reactions to GHB.........Too bad inexperinced kids and drug addicts had to screw it up for the rest of us........see my posts they are at it gain before every supplement goes the way of GHB,........yes including ephedrine!!!!!

[Hatred]

Damn,......I leave the Pc for the weekend and miss all this?
Ok so let me catch up and get back in the mix...
I am going to have to side with Handler on this one...
The one commomn denominator that that seems to come as an attatchment to all GHB horror stories goes a little like this;
"I know someone who did G and drank and they got carted away....
or "I was addicted to it and got up X amout and G'ed out...."
Addictive personalities can become hooked on the DXM in cough syrup. which can also kill you in absurd quantities.
I have done far worse things in my past and walked away from it .
Handler.... Thanks for the article that was exactly what I was looking for. Now if someone could provide scientific data as to the negative effects(read: not interested in personal exp unless backed by a decent amount of info).
Now "back in the day"
I read the above statement about most street $hit being sodium oxibate. Did/does "pure ghb" have that sal****er taste as well?
I would assume so but do not know for sure. The stuff I had down here was real salty and I do not remember that from the past(which would ind S.O.?).
Thanks for all the feedback..

[tony touch]

most fo the G on the market is not even G, that is why i am telling people not to use it. uneducated use and nuregulatiion can b deadly. i totally feel u on that handler.


DNP is kinda an individual thing. i personally dont like it