PDA

View Full Version : what is good for me?



fuzz
08-28-2003, 04:09 PM
I have no idea what routine to go with. I've done HST for 5 cycles now, and I want to focus on strength. I'm currently cutting. Three days a week is what I have to work with here, MWF. So I've looked at 5x5, 3x3, and various other things and I have no idea what to try.

Don't recommend westside, because I feel I need more experience and refinement for my technique before I try that.

Any suggestions welcome.

PowerManDL
08-28-2003, 04:31 PM
What goals do you have in mind?

fuzz
08-28-2003, 05:05 PM
1 - reach sub 10% bodyfat while maintaining strength and size
2 - work on increasing my strength in the big 3
3 - work on form in the big 3
4 - learn how to front squat

PowerManDL
08-28-2003, 05:15 PM
In that case, I'd just use a traditional squat/bench/dead split, focusing on one each day for a 3x/week routine.

Regardless of whether you're working for strength or technique, you'll want to use low reps (1-6, with some exceptions). For techique, use a fair amount of sets....up to ten. For strength, I'd start out working in the 5-6 range for 2-4 sets and work up from there.

Since you can't get a second upper body day in, you've got a few options. One, you can work lats on bench day. Two, you can work lats on squat or deadlift day. Personally I don't like doing upper back with deadlifts. My grip gets shot to hell, and I just don't like it. So its up to you, really.

As far as the squat and dead go, one approach would be to alternate a "technique" approach with a "strength" approach each week, so only one is heavy at a time.

For assistance work, the main things I can recommend for the squat are hamstrings and abs. For the dead, you'll want to hit the traps, low back, and hams.

Front squat technique would best be worked on at the beginning of the workout on squat day. Do 3-5 sets of 3-5, with a comfortable weight, and begin working up from there.

eatdirt40
08-28-2003, 07:38 PM
try doing wanabebig routine number 2 or 3

unshift
08-28-2003, 07:44 PM
no, don't try that at all.

like powerman suggested, i'd say a DL/bench/squat day split, like i'll be starting next week. except, i think i'll be doing lats on deadlift day (at the beginning, so my grip is still good)

instead of straight-up westside, here's something i'm going to try. one week of ME days, then one week of DE days, then cycle for a few weeks, them 1RM DL/bench/squat for a week, then DE, ME, etc. this way you're not really doing westside, but you're adhering to its principles. i'll also be mixing in lots of olympic lifting, maybe its something you'd like to try also.

fuzz
08-29-2003, 08:54 AM
Thanks for the advice. I have some questions for ya...

1) If I want to have a bit more frequency, would it be alright to do light bench work on a squat day, or light squat on a bench day? Just as an "active recovery" attempt? And also to keep my frequency up to help hypertrophy (a la HST)?

2) What kind of loading should I do? Just start at something like 50% 1 rm and work my way up? Some sort of wave loading?


3) How does this look? Comments from anyone welcome, of course.
ps - where do I put in calf work?

Monday - Squat Day
Front Squats 3 x 5
Squats 5 x 5
Leg Curls 5 x 5
Crunches 10 x 2
Leg Lifts 10 x 2

Wed - Bench Day
Bench 5 x 5
Squats (light) 2 x 8 - might be replaced with Leg Press to reduce stress on lower back
DB Rows 2 x 5
Chins 2 x 5

Fri - Deadlift Day
Deads 5 x 5
Seated Military Press 2 x 5
Bench (light) 2 x 8
Hyperextensions 10 x 2
Shrugs 3 x 5



Originally posted by PowerManDL
In that case, I'd just use a traditional squat/bench/dead split, focusing on one each day for a 3x/week routine.

Regardless of whether you're working for strength or technique, you'll want to use low reps (1-6, with some exceptions). For techique, use a fair amount of sets....up to ten. For strength, I'd start out working in the 5-6 range for 2-4 sets and work up from there.

Since you can't get a second upper body day in, you've got a few options. One, you can work lats on bench day. Two, you can work lats on squat or deadlift day. Personally I don't like doing upper back with deadlifts. My grip gets shot to hell, and I just don't like it. So its up to you, really.

As far as the squat and dead go, one approach would be to alternate a "technique" approach with a "strength" approach each week, so only one is heavy at a time.

For assistance work, the main things I can recommend for the squat are hamstrings and abs. For the dead, you'll want to hit the traps, low back, and hams.

Front squat technique would best be worked on at the beginning of the workout on squat day. Do 3-5 sets of 3-5, with a comfortable weight, and begin working up from there.

PowerManDL
08-29-2003, 10:03 AM
Yeah, that looks tight actually.

One thing you might want to try on the hypers, in addition, is adding in a high-rep "speed" set, 15-20 reps. It functions almost identically to a glute-ham raise, and is awesome for the posterior chain.

unshift
08-29-2003, 10:18 AM
i'd drop the leg curls and add in something that helps the posterior chain more, which is the most important factor in a high squat/DL IMO.

try one or more of the following:
pull-through
stiff-leg deadlift
good-mornings (all varieties, switch it up if you like)
lunge

calf work is already done on squat day and deadlift day, believe it or not :)

restless
08-29-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by fuzz



2) What kind of loading should I do? Just start at something like 50% 1 rm and work my way up? Some sort of wave loading?



Smaller increments are supposed to better from a strenght perspective, but I'm sure you already knew that. I'm actually curious to what kind of loading scheme would be best, I might try something similar one of these days.

IceRgrrl
08-29-2003, 11:21 AM
fuzz, for the front squat I'd say work on getting the proper clean grip/positioning/form just with the Oly bar and then gradually add weight as it starts to feel less foreign and more natural.

For the clean grip, just walk up to the bar in the rack, lay your fingertips on the bar about shoulder width apart, and then just push your elbows under and around the bar, letting your fingers slide around the bar and bringing your upper body in contact with the bar. The bar should end up sitting on the "shelf" made by your front delts and upper arm, your elbows should be high up in front of you to keep that upper arm angle so all your fingers should be doing is lightly holding the bar in place against your collarbone area. This might feel like it strains your wrist flexibility so you might need to ease into it.

But front squats rock! Good luck...

unshift
08-29-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by IceRgrrl
This might feel like it strains your wrist flexibility so you might need to ease into it.

i've been doing cleans for the last 3 months, and it still hurts. any ideas how to fix it?

PowerManDL
08-29-2003, 11:56 AM
Wrap your wrists.

unshift
08-29-2003, 12:05 PM
are wrist wraps by say, Inzer, what i need?

i'm a tad confused. knee wraps, as i found out, help you "bounce" out of the hole in a deep squat. i take it, then, wrist wraps don't do the same thing, just for your wrists?

fuzz
08-29-2003, 12:13 PM
Icer, thanks for the tips. I've actually tried front squats with both the clean grip and the arms-crossed grip. Arms crossed feels much more comfortable, and of course the clean grip is pretty difficult. I've found if I try the clean grip with just the bar, there is not enough weight to make it feel "right" - I have to at least throw on 30 lbs or so to make the bar "sit" on the shelf.

How many fingers should I have on the bar? What advantage is there to using this grip, besides appeasing the Oly lift purists (of which I can think of two in my gym).


Originally posted by IceRgrrl
fuzz, for the front squat I'd say work on getting the proper clean grip/positioning/form just with the Oly bar and then gradually add weight as it starts to feel less foreign and more natural.

For the clean grip, just walk up to the bar in the rack, lay your fingertips on the bar about shoulder width apart, and then just push your elbows under and around the bar, letting your fingers slide around the bar and bringing your upper body in contact with the bar. The bar should end up sitting on the "shelf" made by your front delts and upper arm, your elbows should be high up in front of you to keep that upper arm angle so all your fingers should be doing is lightly holding the bar in place against your collarbone area. This might feel like it strains your wrist flexibility so you might need to ease into it.

But front squats rock! Good luck...

fuzz
08-29-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL
Yeah, that looks tight actually.

One thing you might want to try on the hypers, in addition, is adding in a high-rep "speed" set, 15-20 reps. It functions almost identically to a glute-ham raise, and is awesome for the posterior chain.

How should I load things here? If I'm doing a 5x5 of heavy bench one week, should I shoot for 75% 1 RM or something? What about light weeks? I have no idea on how I should setup percentages for light vs. heavy weeks.

fuzz
08-29-2003, 12:16 PM
I might try substituting stiff-leg deadlifts, though I don't have much experience with them.

I've tried pull-throughs, but they always feel very awkard as I'm too afraid I'm going to crush my nuts.

As for the calf work, I suppose I can drop direct calf work unless I'm really ahead on recovery, as my calves are a decent size as it is.


Originally posted by unshift
i'd drop the leg curls and add in something that helps the posterior chain more, which is the most important factor in a high squat/DL IMO.

try one or more of the following:
pull-through
stiff-leg deadlift
good-mornings (all varieties, switch it up if you like)
lunge

calf work is already done on squat day and deadlift day, believe it or not :)

PowerManDL
08-29-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by fuzz


How should I load things here? If I'm doing a 5x5 of heavy bench one week, should I shoot for 75% 1 RM or something? What about light weeks? I have no idea on how I should setup percentages for light vs. heavy weeks.

Depends on how you want to apply it.

If you're trying to get all the same weight, I wouldn't worry about %'s and just see what you can get.

Another application would be to work with 75-85% and shoot for just 2-3 sets, with the 5x5 including warmup sets; a heavy day would involve working up to a max 5 in the 85-95% range across the five sets.

fuzz
09-03-2003, 08:34 AM
bump on this...
I did oly style front squats yesterday, and I'm not sure if its worth the time it takes to get used to the strange grip. Is there anything inherently better over the bb style front squat?


Originally posted by fuzz
Icer, thanks for the tips. I've actually tried front squats with both the clean grip and the arms-crossed grip. Arms crossed feels much more comfortable, and of course the clean grip is pretty difficult. I've found if I try the clean grip with just the bar, there is not enough weight to make it feel "right" - I have to at least throw on 30 lbs or so to make the bar "sit" on the shelf.

How many fingers should I have on the bar? What advantage is there to using this grip, besides appeasing the Oly lift purists (of which I can think of two in my gym).

PowerManDL
09-03-2003, 09:43 AM
Better for what?

fuzz
09-03-2003, 12:59 PM
Thats what I'm asking. It seems a lot of people say to use the Oly style grip with front squats, but I never hear the reasons for doing so over the bb style grip.

MixmasterNash
09-04-2003, 11:37 AM
Bless you icer, I've never figured out where to put the damn bar on front squats/whatever. Always sort of rested it on my front delts but it sort of rolled off. In between biceps and delts works like a charm! It may be hard to hold up a lot of weight this way though, because it's hard for me to get my elbows far enough forward.