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JNowiski
08-30-2003, 07:16 AM
What are some assistance exercises to help raise my DL? Are there any routines that you guys have used to boost your DL?

unshift
08-30-2003, 09:02 AM
to up your deadlift, you want to focus on the posterior chain (ankles, calves, hamstrings, glutes, low back). don't forget about your quads, but they should be plenty strong from squatting already so i wouldn't *focus* on just them

lots of people have had great success with different combonations of the following:
stiff-leg deadlifts
lunges
pull-throughs
glute-ham raise
reverse hypers (reverse crunch)
good mornings
1/2 - 1/4 pin squats (put the bar on pins, squat low, and squat 1/2 or 1/4 up off the bottom)
box squats
olympic lifting

typically i'd avoid things like leg curl machines, leg extension machines, and low back extension machines. there are simply much better things that you can do

and you'll want to make sure to work your grip. i do static holds with regular overhand grip but you can also do farmers walks, plate pinch, and tons of other stuff

-TIM-
08-30-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by unshift
typically i'd avoid things like leg curl machines, leg extension machines, and low back extension machines. there are simply much better things that you can do

Why on earth would you eliminate isolation exercises for your quads and hamstrings!? Those are great exercises that will help increasing your dead lifts. That would be like saying forget doing tris or shoulders if you want to increase you bench strength.

JNowiski
08-30-2003, 12:18 PM
IM also trying to increase my bench strength, lol. Im doing pretty well in raising that though.

I like using freeweights, because I really don't like going to the gym. My school has a gym, but its not really that great. My bench has the leg curl machine on it, but I don't really use it.

...What are these?
pull-throughs
glute-ham raise
reverse hypers (reverse crunch)

Thanks.

paty boy
08-30-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by JNowiski

...What are these?
pull-throughs
glute-ham raise
reverse hypers (reverse crunch)


Glute-ham raise = possibly the most difficult ham exercise IMO, but worth doing.
www.weighttrainersunited.com/directory.html - pictures

unshift
08-30-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Tim Nissen


Why on earth would you eliminate isolation exercises for your quads and hamstrings!? Those are great exercises that will help increasing your dead lifts. That would be like saying forget doing tris or shoulders if you want to increase you bench strength.

why not do machines? because there are tons of way better lifts out there which are way more beneficial to the powerlifter.

as for isolating, why bother? compounds will make you stronger all around. personally i can probably leg press for 1RM in the 700-800 range (maybe even higher) but my squat is in the mid-low 300s. doing leg presses sure isn't going to help that.

and as far as benching goes, are you honestly going to do kickbacks to increase your bench? of course not.

JNowiski
08-30-2003, 01:59 PM
I don't plan on competing in Powerlifting comps, but I do want to compete in some strongman comps, but im trying to build strength for them. If I tried to go right now, I probably could lift most the stuff.

Right now, my DL is about 225. and I weigh 160...and my bench is about 180...Those are my 1RM!! I have only been seriously lifting for about 2 months and got my bench up about 50 pounds, I at least want to be able to bench 200 and DL 300 by the end of this year. (im pretty sure will be able to bench 200, maybe even a little over it by that time, thanks to you guys tips).

unshift
08-30-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by JNowiski
...What are these?
pull-throughs
glute-ham raise
reverse hypers (reverse crunch)

Thanks.

http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/home.htm

i think you'll find that page very helpful. it's a little better than EXRX in that the videos are more visible and a bit bigger. there's also a MUCH better selection of strength exercises

JNowiski
08-30-2003, 02:05 PM
Yeah, EXRX isn't that great, but it is an alright site. That one paty boy put up was pretty good too.

Bruise Brubaker
08-30-2003, 05:08 PM
Abs and obliques exercises will also increase your deadlift.

You could also also do variations of deadlifts: trap bar deadlift, dumbells deadlift or ezbars loaded with 25s, 35s or 45s, 1-hand dl (db or ezbar)

Also strenghten the muscles that pull your shoulders upward and backward (mainly the traps).

Alex.V
08-31-2003, 12:49 PM
One other thing to do is practice the damn deadlift. :)

Little variations in form, balance, and explosion of the bottom can make a HUGE difference in the lift... I'd rotate in higher volume (lower weight) days, doing multiple sub max singles and doubles with various rep protocols (pauses in between reps, straight sets, etc.), and get others to provide feedback on speed, balance, etc. It can be a huge help over time.

ryan1117
08-31-2003, 01:05 PM
Honestly, I think you would just be setting yourself up for some overtraining by trying to do too much. I feel max effort squats and max effort deadlifts once per week are plenty on the lower back.

Of course, this is from my personal experience and I also don't neglect any body parts on my workouts. I've been improving nicely without any deadlift support work but deadlifts themselves once per week (with max effort).

unshift
08-31-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by ryan1117
Honestly, I think you would just be setting yourself up for some overtraining by trying to do too much. I feel max effort squats and max effort deadlifts once per week are plenty on the lower back.

not sure if that's a good idea. if i read the westside protocol correctly, then it says that after ~3 weeks, continuously 1RMing the same exercise will be counter-productive and the max weight will actually decrease.

ryan1117
08-31-2003, 01:47 PM
When I say max effort, I mean lifting a weight to at or near failure at any given rep range. For example, I did 405 as many times as I could get it today. I don't mean maxing every week.

JNowiski
08-31-2003, 03:13 PM
I went and worked out a little today, bench and Dl. Im trying to save up for a squat rack, but right now im just gonna focus on the bench and DL. I did some o-lifts, and I actually think my clean&jerk is getting alot stronger...its still pretty weak, but I lifted more than I ever have (...im still working on getting good form on my snatches)

Do you think my DL workout should use 50-100% each workout? or 60-80 or 90% and go for 100% for reps once a week?

-TIM-
08-31-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by unshift


why not do machines? because there are tons of way better lifts out there which are way more beneficial to the powerlifter.

as for isolating, why bother? compounds will make you stronger all around. personally i can probably leg press for 1RM in the 700-800 range (maybe even higher) but my squat is in the mid-low 300s. doing leg presses sure isn't going to help that.

and as far as benching goes, are you honestly going to do kickbacks to increase your bench? of course not.

:rolleyes:

unshift
09-01-2003, 10:38 PM
name 1 true isolation exercise (ie: curls) that will dramatically help increase a bench, squat, or deadlift

-TIM-
09-02-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by unshift
name 1 true isolation exercise (ie: curls) that will dramatically help increase a bench, squat, or deadlift

Why does it have to be a dramatic increase to be considered benificial? All I'm saying is exercises that target main muscle groups that move the weight during core exercises are essential. I'm not saying they're better than the compound exercises that were suggested, just that they shouldn't be excluded. I mean, quads are a huge part of moving the weight when squating. So why wouldn't you do exercises that isolate the quads, like extensions?

unshift
09-02-2003, 07:41 AM
because it will not dramatically help increase a bench, squat, or deadlift.

believe me, squatting works a hell of a lot better than leg extensions.

MixmasterNash
09-02-2003, 07:04 PM
Especially at a beginning level, I've noticed many people do a lot of isolation exercises, especially for the arms. Do any of them have big arms? No. Every single person moving a lot of weight in my gyms primarily does compound exercises. Pressing, pulling, squatting.

Why is this? Isolation exercises are EASY. (Compared to compound, of course!) But they still use energy, and that energy is almost always better spent doing compounds for the beginning lifter.

ElPietro
09-03-2003, 07:06 AM
Wow, I wonder why pretty much all powerlifters do assistance exercises then. You experts should go tell them to fix their training by taking out these isolations exercises designed to target weak points either in their ROM or specific muscle groups then.

You should be doing the compounds but isolation work definitely has it's place as well. How much can you squat? How much can you leg press? So do you really think you are strengthening the quads enough through squats? They could become the limiting muscle group, considering it's only a secondary muscle in the lift. So by doing something like leg press you are directly training a muscle involved in the lift. This can be said for shoulders or triceps on bench, or something like traps on deadlift which could impact your lockout. Even direct work on your calves can be good, if you mess up your form often on a heavy dead or squat you'll go onto your toes, if you don't have your calves up to par, you will potentially strain something.

MixmasterNash
09-04-2003, 11:19 AM
LP: If you're replying to me, or even just generally speaking, I think you misinterpret what I'm saying.

First of all, there is a huge difference between assistance and isolation exercises. They are often overlapping, but not the same at all!

Powerlifters consider military press and lat pulldowns to be assistance exercises, right? They sure aren't isolation! To address your specific examples, leg press is certainly not an isolation exercise. It's very compound, though definately more quad focused. As for triceps, close grip bench and dips are not isolation, but compounds that are more tri focused.

Anyway, powerlifters can do what they want as they _should_ know what they're doing. It's beginning lifters who need to be focused on compounds. I wish someone had taught me to do compounds and oly lifts instead of wasting time with curls and tri pushdowns when I was 140lbs of skin and bones.

ElPietro
09-04-2003, 11:21 AM
Nope I wasn't replying to you. I was just stating that isolation work can and is used as assistance work, and they have their place. You weren't the one saying just do compounds alone to help your compounds, someone else was.

IceRgrrl
09-04-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by paty boy


Glute-ham raise = possibly the most difficult ham exercise IMO, but worth doing.
www.weighttrainersunited.com/directory.html - pictures

Agreed....love 'em!

BUT if you or your gym don't have a glute-ham machine, it's hard to substitute or rig up something that's like it :(

MixmasterNash
09-04-2003, 11:30 AM
Right-o.

Anyway, the more that I think about it, the more I feel that beginners probably shouldn't spend ANY time doing isolation. Just all compounds until they have a strong base. But that's neither here not there for increasing someone's deadlift.

Relentless
09-04-2003, 11:37 AM
the other problem with (especially leg) isolation exercises is the potential for injury

I recently found this out the hard way after repeatedly straining what I came to understand was my patellar tendon by doing heavy leg extensions and leg curls

granted I was doing fairly heinously heavy leg extensions, especially, but I think the point stands.

ElPietro
09-04-2003, 11:38 AM
I think isolations are fine as a compliment to compounds. Of course if your goal is simply bodybuilding then isolations become more important. But often compounds are limited by coordination, learning how to lift with speed, or some other muscle group that is a limiting factor. So isolations, or non-big 3 lifts, have a place that will allow you to train muscles without the need to learn any difficult form, etc.

I do agree that compounds and developing a strong base are imperative for powerlifting though. And is probably ideal for any kind of lifter.

JNowiski
09-04-2003, 01:51 PM
My goals are to up my bench and deadlift and also gain mass so I can lift the bigger weights...