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hemants
09-05-2003, 07:02 AM
From searching the archives I have built up what seems to be mixed messages. Lemme explain:

1. Protein

Point : Protein synthesis is better with more infrequent meals as opposed to a steady supply throughout the day.

Counterpoint : Casein is better than whey because it supplies protein over a longer period of time

Contradiction? Does it really matter if your whey and casein are consumed with a balanced meal since a meal will slow digestion anyways?

2. Carbohydrates and meals in general :

Point : Lower insulin spikes and valleys will help avoid mini cycles of fat storage and catabolism

Counterpoint : 3 meals a day vs 6 meals a day has not been shown to make any difference to body composition.

Contradiction? Would eating 6 highER (but not sugary) glycemic meals be any different than eating 3 lower glycemic meals as long as macronutrients were the same? Is small amounts of white bread, and simple sugars really going to make much difference?

Discuss!

bradley
09-05-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by hemants
From searching the archives I have built up what seems to be mixed messages. Lemme explain:

1. Protein

Point : Protein synthesis is better with more infrequent meals as opposed to a steady supply throughout the day.

Counterpoint : Casein is better than whey because it supplies protein over a longer period of time


I think that one thing you need to keep in mind is the fact that whey digests very rapidly, which means that more of the aminos will be oxidized in the liver, as opposed to casein.

Since the body highly regulates the free amino acid pool, there is no need for an abundance of protein at one time, other than maybe post workout, therefore the body has to do something with the excess aminos.

Casein on the other hand forms a "gel" which will allow a more sustained release of aminos, and this will mean that less of the aminos are oxidized in the liver.



Contradiction? Does it really matter if your whey and casein are consumed with a balanced meal since a meal will slow digestion anyways?

In reference to whey, I really do not think it matters. If you eat a whole food meal consisting of carbs and fat and then wash it down with a whey shake, then yes the digestion of the whey will be decreased.

The digestion of casein would be slower for the same reasons mentioned above, but I would think that the digestion times for casein would still be slower than that of whey, due to the way each protein behaves once ingested.

If you were to mix both whey and casein, then I believe the whey would act pretty much the same as casein. In other words, you would not be able to ingest both whey and casein and get the fast digestion of whey as well as the slow digestion of casein.



2. Carbohydrates and meals in general :

Point : Lower insulin spikes and valleys will help avoid mini cycles of fat storage and catabolism

Counterpoint : 3 meals a day vs 6 meals a day has not been shown to make any difference to body composition.

Contradiction? Would eating 6 highER (but not sugary) glycemic meals be any different than eating 3 lower glycemic meals as long as macronutrients were the same? Is small amounts of white bread, and simple sugars really going to make much difference?

Discuss!

As long as you are taking in adequate amounts of protein and EFAs, it is really not going to matter where the other calories are coming from. Although your appetite might be greatly increased if you were to consume high GI carbs as opposed to low GI carbs. The only way something like this might make a difference is when you were trying to get down to low levels of bf, and then the difference would be debatable.

Another point that I have brought up before, is the fact that if you were to consume high GI carbs you would enter a fat burning state faster as opposed to eating low GI carbs.

When you eat low GI carbs you get a more sustained insulin response, and we all know that the presence of insulin halts lipolysis. If you were to eat high GI carbs you would get a greater insulin response, but it would not be as long, and therefore the body would go back to burning fat. Although, again this would probably wreak havoc on your appetite.

hemants
09-05-2003, 10:45 AM
Hmmmm, lemme see if I understand what you're saying:

"Since the body highly regulates the free amino acid pool, there is no need for an abundance of protein at one time, other than maybe post workout, therefore the body has to do something with the excess aminos"

*you mean use them for fuel and possibly convert them to fat?

"As long as you are taking in adequate amounts of protein and EFAs, it is really not going to matter where the other calories are coming from."

*is this really true? your body can only use so much glucose at any given time so if gets too much at once, won't this also get converted into fat?

"Another point that I have brought up before, is the fact that if you were to consume high GI carbs you would enter a fat burning state faster as opposed to eating low GI carbs."

*goes against the conventional wisdom regarding yoyo dieting.
are higher peaks of insulin followed by higher peaks of glucagon really going to facilitate greater fat loss or would it simply mean that the catabolism might be too extreme and therefore result in more muscle loss? Now I'm really confused!

bradley
09-05-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by hemants
Hmmmm, lemme see if I understand what you're saying:

"Since the body highly regulates the free amino acid pool, there is no need for an abundance of protein at one time, other than maybe post workout, therefore the body has to do something with the excess aminos"

*you mean use them for fuel and possibly convert them to fat?


Yes, the excess aminos would be converted to glucose, via gluconeogenesis, and then the glucose would be used for fuel or stored as fat. Although the conversion of glucose to carbs is not an effecient process in humans (de novo lipogenesis).



"As long as you are taking in adequate amounts of protein and EFAs, it is really not going to matter where the other calories are coming from."

*is this really true? your body can only use so much glucose at any given time so if gets too much at once, won't this also get converted into fat?

Think of it this way. If you eat a large amount of glucose at one meal then fat burning will be halted for X amount of time. When insulin levels fall fat burning will resume, so if you eat a large amount of carbs you will not be burning fat at that point in time, but later in the day you will resume burning fat.

For example, you are following a 2,500 calorie diet, which is under your maintenance level. Your first meal of the day contains 1,000 calories, so obviously you will not be burning fat after consuming this meal, but fat burning will be increased later in the day because you will have to consume smaller meals to remain at your 2,500 calories per day. I hope that makes sense.:)



"Another point that I have brought up before, is the fact that if you were to consume high GI carbs you would enter a fat burning state faster as opposed to eating low GI carbs."

*goes against the conventional wisdom regarding yoyo dieting.
are higher peaks of insulin followed by higher peaks of glucagon really going to facilitate greater fat loss or would it simply mean that the catabolism might be too extreme and therefore result in more muscle loss? Now I'm really confused!

Total calorie intake will be the main determining factor as to whether or not you gain weight, but I just wanted to point out this theory that I have seen mentioned before. I am not advocating following a diet based on high GI carbs, but it could be done, but appetite control may be an issue.

You do bring up a good point about glucagon, as I never really considered that aspect. Although I do not think you would see any muscle loss, unless your body somehow perceives increased appetite as stress, and therefore secretes cortisol. As we know glucagon is necessary to help mobilize fat stores, but as you mention it could also cause muscle catabolism. I am really unsure about the specifics of glucagon, and at what point glucagon would become catabolic.