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TiGeR AK
09-09-2003, 10:42 AM
if the amount of calories consumed were the SAME in 2 different scenarios - 1. performing cardio on a normal/maintenance caloric diet or 2. reducing caloric intake

in which scenario would you experience more muscle loss/catabolism? would it be significant in either amount? (consider the amount of calories consumed to be about 400-500 below maintenance).

Dedicated
09-09-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by TiGeR AK
if the amount of calories consumed were the SAME in 2 different scenarios - 1. performing cardio on a normal/maintenance caloric diet or 2. reducing caloric intake

in which scenario would you experience more muscle loss/catabolism? would it be significant in either amount? (consider the amount of calories consumed to be about 400-500 below maintenance).
It would depend.

If the cardio was excessive then it would be more catabolic than #2. By excessive I mean you could feel the wear and tear you were putting on your body. You would feel overtrained, and you would know it for sure.

If the cardio was not excessive then I would even go as far as saying that it would be anabolic. This is assuming you are lifting weights and do cardio without overtraning yourself.


Reducing calorie intake with no exercise at all would not be an option for me.

Edit - Just wanna add that I think light cardio is great if you lift weights, do it, just keep it light and slowly increase it if it isn't interfering with your lifting.:)

restless
09-09-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by TiGeR AK
if the amount of calories consumed were the SAME in 2 different scenarios - 1. performing cardio on a normal/maintenance caloric diet or 2. reducing caloric intake



So are the calories consumed the same or are they lower in the second one?

JuniorMint6669
09-09-2003, 02:18 PM
i think he means...
3000 calories consumed, 400 burned from cardio
or
2600 calories consumed, 0 burned from cardio

Good question, one i dont know the answer to. On the one side, cardio is going to create cortisol which is catabolic. But the extra 400 calories you are consuming, if done post workout high GI carbs (ala dextrose) will produce insulin, negating the cortisol and creating an anabolic environment. I like eating food, so I say do your cardio and eat more!

restless
09-09-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by JuniorMint6669
i think he means...
3000 calories consumed, 400 burned from cardio
or
2600 calories consumed, 0 burned from cardio



Ah, maybe that's it. I equated "consumed" to "ingested".

I have no answer to that question, but from a purelly empirical standpoint I'd say number one is more catabolic (for me).

TiGeR AK
09-09-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by JuniorMint6669
i think he means...
3000 calories consumed, 400 burned from cardio
or
2600 calories consumed, 0 burned from cardio

Good question, one i dont know the answer to. On the one side, cardio is going to create cortisol which is catabolic. But the extra 400 calories you are consuming, if done post workout high GI carbs (ala dextrose) will produce insulin, negating the cortisol and creating an anabolic environment. I like eating food, so I say do your cardio and eat more!

that's exactly wut i meant sir...


the reason i ask this is because.. yes i do lift weights, and have been lifting properly for let's say... 2.5 years. I want to trim off some of the flab after going through a bulking cycle... so


i'm just not sure whether to eat more and do cardio (in addition to weights)

or not do any serious cardio, but lower the caloric intake more...

and i'm wondering which would be more muscle-sparing, etc..

JuniorMint6669
09-09-2003, 10:16 PM
I say if you can handle the extra workload, go for the cardio. Thats what I do. Because as i said, i like to eat. My body handles high workloads just fine, so as of late, my "rest" days have turned into cardio days.

Dedicated
09-09-2003, 10:30 PM
I would cut about 400 calories and do very light cardio in the mornings. I would also start only on offdays and again keep it light. Maybe 10-15minutes on offdays. Don't start with the usually recommended 3 times a week 30 minutes a day thing but slowly I mean very slowly work up to that. Cardio can help with muscle recovery, but too much can cause overtraining especially if you aren't used to it.

Don't rely on the cardio for weight loss, rely on the calorie cutback and use the cardio as a tool to aid in muscle recovery and increased metabolism by only doing cardio in the mornings. I have lost tons of bodyfat in the last 40 days by using this mentality and increased my muscle mass and strength.

Maybe do something like this in the mornings, this is especially important that it is done in the mornings.
1st week 8mins cardio offdays only
2nd week 10 mins cardio offdays only
3rd week 12 mins cardio offdays only
4th week 12-15 mins cardio offdays only
5th week + you should be able to tell what is too much and what isn't by now for you, everyone is different and it really depends on how you lift weights and what you eat, how you sleep etc etc etc.

You can do light cardio after lifting , but it really isn't worth it if you lift in the afternoons. In fact, if you ever do cardio in the afternoon, consider it purely for fun and expect zero benefit. While you do get some benefit, the benefits of doing morning cardio outweight afternoon cardio by so much it just makes sense to think that way about it. Just keep the calories cut, don't cheat, and keep the cardio light and you will do great, goodluck:).

JuniorMint6669
09-09-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Dedicated
In fact, if you ever do cardio in the afternoon, consider it purely for fun and expect zero benefit. While you do get some benefit, the benefits of doing morning cardio outweight afternoon cardio by so much it just makes sense to think that way about it.

Could you please explain why you feel this way? Please dont tell me you are morning cardio on empty stomach >_<

Tank23
09-09-2003, 11:05 PM
While you do get some benefit, the benefits of doing morning cardio outweight afternoon cardio by so much it just makes sense to think that way about it.

I don't see how it would really make a difference what time of day you do your cardio. Firstly, morning cardio on an empty stomach isn't a good idea. I dunno if you were implying first thing in the morning on an empty stomach or not, but if you were, then yeh, it's not a good idea due to the body being in a catabolic state after not eating for 8+ hours.

If you were implying that one should eat something then do cardio, in the morning, I don't see what's the difference to doing it in the afternoon....

Care to clarify Dedicated? :)

Dedicated
09-10-2003, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by JuniorMint6669


Could you please explain why you feel this way? Please dont tell me you are morning cardio on empty stomach >_<
Ok yea I am a morning cardio on empty stomach person lol, but he shouldn't do that heh. I do it on an empty stomach cause I'm willing to risk a little muscle loss, but to be honest it's very minimal and it's kind of a trade off cause you burn alot of fat. But since he doesn't want to lose any muscle at all, I wouldn't recommend it.

Cardio in the morning elevates your metabolism for the rest of the day, so you burn more calories throughout the day. I read in a few places about this and in one place the guy went as far as saying that cardio in the afternoon is pointless pretty much cause it's just so much better to do it in the morning. Think of it as a natural thermogenic kinda I guess heh. This is why it's so important I think to do it in the morning.

Btw since he is trying to maintain muscle, 2.5 years of training is not to be taken lightly, he should eat something but you really don't need alot. The diet forum has some suggestions on this I think its like 15g protein and very few carbs, low calorie, no fats. Something like a pre-cardio shake is recommended, very light it isn't a real meal.:D

JuniorMint6669
09-10-2003, 09:22 AM
I do agree with the elevated metabolism, but I dont think it will matter that much... for two reasons (that arent reasons, just things im not sure about)
1. Why wouldnt it elevate your metabolism while sleeping? I know your metabolism slows down, but it doesnt shut off.
2. I dont know how long the elevated metabolism lasts, 24 hours? 8 hours? 6 hours? Even if it didnt count while you were sleeping, if it were only elevated for several hours, it would not matter.

But of course, to each their own :-D To some people, excercise in the morning is good to wake them up, it helps them start their day. To me, it is quite the opposite. I like to excercise to wind my day down, and help me get to sleep.

Dedicated
09-10-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by JuniorMint6669


But of course, to each their own :-D To some people, excercise in the morning is good to wake them up, it helps them start their day. To me, it is quite the opposite. I like to excercise to wind my day down, and help me get to sleep.
Hehe If I work out at night I cannot sleep lol. My friend is like you, he says working out at night actually helps him sleep, so weird!:D

restless
09-10-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Dedicated



Cardio in the morning elevates your metabolism for the rest of the day, so you burn more calories throughout the day. I read in a few places about this and in one place the guy went as far as saying that cardio in the afternoon is pointless pretty much cause it's just so much better to do it in the morning. Think of it as a natural thermogenic kinda I guess heh. This is why it's so important I think to do it in the morning.

It's not important to do it in the morning, any diference there might be is minimal. For the record, and you could see one of the stickies in this forum for more info, cardio does very litlle in order to elevate your RMR, morning or not. In fact, most researchers had a very hard time finding any kind of raise in RMR from traditional cardio, unless you do a ton of it, like 1.5 hours a day.

If raising metabolism is your concern do HIIT, and don't do it on an empty stomach.

In the end losing fat is still a function of calories in versus calories out, when you do your cardio is not really important.