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View Full Version : Losing body fat and gaining muslce at the same time.



GusGus13
09-19-2003, 08:11 AM
One things thats been bothering for the last three months is losing my body fat. That damn belly fat just doesn't want to go down. Wanna be ripped and have lots of mucsle mass
My weight was 225 lbs I lost 28 lbs just doing lots of cardio and very little weightlifting at 1800 calorie diet, but I lost a lot muscles mass in the process.

Its been 7 weeks when switched to more weighting lifting and less cardio and add 2500 calorie diet high in protein and my weight loss has halted and maintained at 196 lbs. But I have had great results gain muslce mass. The ideal wait for 5-9" person should be around 175-180.

The only problem is that I'm not sure if I should lower my calorie intake from 2500 cal to 2000 and keep my protein intake at 215 a day. And add more cardio after my weightlifting. Im heading in the right direction. Any suggestions anyone. It is appreciated.

geoffgarcia
09-19-2003, 08:59 AM
monitor your diet, maintain calorie intake and you should be all set

Eating clean will help you to lose bf as your body wont be full of crap.

PS-1800 calories seems REALLY low if your doing any exercise at all...if your body doesn't take in enough calories your body goes into a catabolic state where it thinks it just ate its last meal ever...so everything that comes in it stores as fat (for later consumption) and it burns muscle rather than fat reserves. so hopefully you didn't just lose 28lbs of muscle

Thats the problem with low calorie diets...(or so I understand, I could be off)

I wish ya luck bro you seem to have your head on your shoulders and have your priorities down. If you need help with your diet (tracking it) I recommend dietOrganizer.com that program has made a BIG impact on me and I think its the best thing I've done for my body.

Have a good weekend

defcon
09-19-2003, 10:11 AM
okay.. so your saying that your appox 200 lbs right now right? what i would do if i were you is eat at 2800-3000 cals a day for 2 weeks. see if my weight goes up ( and by how much ) if it dosnt go up then keep eating at that level for another week ( hopefully after that you will have your metabolism reset. if you go up eating that many calories, reduce it to 2500-2600 a day and do that for a week-2 weeks, see if that is yuour maintanice level, and so on. do this until you find your maintnaice level..

Once you have that found, reduce it by 300 cals and you should lose appox 1 lb a week, mayb elil more, maybe a lil less ( keep your weight lifting/cardio the same ), do this until your weight loss stops, then reduce it another 300 cals.. keep at this level until your weight loss stops again.. then instead of dropping calories ( WE DON;T WANT THEM TO GET TOO LOW! 600 below maintainaice is low enough ), just up the cardio a bit, then you'llojnce again lose 1lb or so a week, then do that for a while, and evertime your weight loss stops just up the cardio more and more.. this way, IMO you will lose more fat instead of muscle, and your calories won't go so low that you start to starve yourself. Also once you get down to a <15% bf, do a planed refeed of starchier carbs every 2nd week ( maybe a sat? i dunno.. ) where you double your carb intake, and take in half your fats. ( i like to use bread during my refeeds, i'd eat a loaf of bread during the day.. what it does is it restore leptin evels ect.

well that is how i go about cutting down.. :) i just started a cycle last week actually :D

GusGus13
09-19-2003, 10:35 AM
Im not too famuliar with that method, but it does sound interesting. I would like to try that. Do have more information about refeeding? Do you always cycle your calorie intake? Or do you fined a comfort level?

bradley
09-19-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by GusGus13
One things thats been bothering for the last three months is losing my body fat. That damn belly fat just doesn't want to go down. Wanna be ripped and have lots of mucsle mass
My weight was 225 lbs I lost 28 lbs just doing lots of cardio and very little weightlifting at 1800 calorie diet, but I lost a lot muscles mass in the process.

If you cut your calories too low you will increase the chance of losing LBM, especially if you stay at that calorie intake for an extended period of time.



Its been 7 weeks when switched to more weighting lifting and less cardio and add 2500 calorie diet high in protein and my weight loss has halted and maintained at 196 lbs. But I have had great results gain muslce mass. The ideal wait for 5-9" person should be around 175-180.

The only problem is that I'm not sure if I should lower my calorie intake from 2500 cal to 2000 and keep my protein intake at 215 a day. And add more cardio after my weightlifting. Im heading in the right direction. Any suggestions anyone. It is appreciated.

You need to focus on one goal at a time, as it is hard to lose bf while gaining LBM. If you are maintaining your current weight at 2500 cals per day, then that should be close to your maintenance calorie level. Just decrease your cals in small increments (~200 per week), until you are losing a small amount of weight each week. This should help minimize LBM losses.


Do have more information about refeeding?

http://www.theministryoffitness.com/mof/library/articles/article18.htm

Isaac Wilkins
09-19-2003, 05:32 PM
What Bradley says is correct. If you are interested in recomposition, the refeed sticky above goes into a lot of detail in a discussion between ST, Cgirl, myself, and several others.

Stabber
09-19-2003, 11:59 PM
I think the low calorie = starvation mode is a bunch of BS. Unless you're living off cabbage soup or eating one meal a day, I don't find that to be true at all. Don't be afraid to lose weight. Your abdominal fat is the last fat that comes off. Make a diet plan and stick to it. Keep the protein intake high and dont stop lifting!

jinxx
09-20-2003, 02:22 AM
When do you eat way too low calories you body WILL go to starvation mode = your metabolism will slow down by a lot to spare the little food that you eat. Call this BS all you want but it just makes you look ignorant.

You want to be about 500 below maintenace, and when you hit a plateau throw in some cardio (HIIT).

bradley
09-20-2003, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by Stabber
I think the low calorie = starvation mode is a bunch of BS. Unless you're living off cabbage soup or eating one meal a day, I don't find that to be true at all. Don't be afraid to lose weight. Your abdominal fat is the last fat that comes off. Make a diet plan and stick to it. Keep the protein intake high and dont stop lifting!

It has been proven by numerous studies that the body will decrease metabolic rate (decreased leptin), among other things, in response to a calorie deficit (i.e. losing bf). Although these adaptations well be less of a concern for someone who is above their bf setpoint, which usually falls somewhere around 15%. A caloire deficit alone will allow you to lose weight, but try getting to sub 8-10% bf, naturally without incorporating some above maintenance days (refeeds). Don't get me wrong, you might eventually get there, but you will lose a large amount of LBM in the process.

Here are a few studies relating the importance of leptin in maintaining energy balance, etc. There are plenty of other studies that show a decrease in metabolic rate, due to decreasing calories (starvation metabolism).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12861270&dopt=Abstract
"The leptin is a peptide of 167 amino acids, with a signal sequence of 21 amino acids that split up before the leptin enters the circulatory torrent. The white adipose tissue is the main producer of leptin, acting as a "marker" of the body's energy reserves. Leptin intervenes in different physiological processes such as the regulation of the energy balance, the control of appetite and body weight, the metabolism of fats and glucides or reproduction, amongst others."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11757823&dopt=Abstract
"Leptin is an adipocyte-derived hormone that is essential for normal body weight regulation. Its main physiological role may be to coordinate the metabolic, endocrine and behavioural responses to starvation."

eatdirt40
09-21-2003, 07:48 PM
yes def eat clean and try to minimize cardio and up your intensity into weight lifting.... try gaing lowering ur calories so that u lose 1/2 to a pound a week and that will help u lose bf and not lose as much muscle. good luck man

EAT CLEAN

Big John
09-22-2003, 11:17 AM
Cut Carbs down NOT Fat and Protiens, 120/140 gr Carbs is enough, make up the rest with protein and Fat, 2800/3000 should be a good guide.Eat lots of salads,Keep your training and cardio going as to your training plan. Big John.

AllUp
09-22-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by bradley


It has been proven by numerous studies that the body will decrease metabolic rate (decreased leptin), among other things, in response to a calorie deficit (i.e. losing bf). Although these adaptations well be less of a concern for someone who is above their bf setpoint, which usually falls somewhere around 15%. A caloire deficit alone will allow you to lose weight, but try getting to sub 8-10% bf, naturally without incorporating some above maintenance days (refeeds). Don't get me wrong, you might eventually get there, but you will lose a large amount of LBM in the process.

Here are a few studies relating the importance of leptin in maintaining energy balance, etc. There are plenty of other studies that show a decrease in metabolic rate, due to decreasing calories (starvation metabolism).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12861270&dopt=Abstract
"The leptin is a peptide of 167 amino acids, with a signal sequence of 21 amino acids that split up before the leptin enters the circulatory torrent. The white adipose tissue is the main producer of leptin, acting as a "marker" of the body's energy reserves. Leptin intervenes in different physiological processes such as the regulation of the energy balance, the control of appetite and body weight, the metabolism of fats and glucides or reproduction, amongst others."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11757823&dopt=Abstract
"Leptin is an adipocyte-derived hormone that is essential for normal body weight regulation. Its main physiological role may be to coordinate the metabolic, endocrine and behavioural responses to starvation."

Yep. while dieting I noticed if you Load on weekends or midweek the weight sheds off if you stay active during the week. tried tellin my friend about it but he refuses to eat.(He has been about 950-1100cal Below Maint for 2mo. btw...) :/ I imagine he will start after he finds out I got past the plateau and lost 6.5lb's this mo. with minimal LBM losses due to the load days. :)

GusGus13
09-24-2003, 09:34 AM
Hey how much time should a spending doing cardio in a session? Right now I'm staring a Monday-Saturday weight and cardio training with Wednesday being cardio day only.

I do about a 20 min to 30 min treadmill combination which includes speed walking, jogging, and a little running. Does that sound about right?

I also getting my bf analysis done today. To see where Im at.

hemants
09-24-2003, 02:29 PM
Your best bet would be caloric defecit and strength training.

Caloric defecit makes you lose WEIGHT.

Strength training ensures that the weight you lose is not muscle.

shansen008
09-24-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by hemants
Your best bet would be caloric defecit and strength training.

Caloric defecit makes you lose WEIGHT.

Strength training ensures that the weight you lose is not muscle.

Not exactly, strength training ensures you dont lose strength.....strength training and proper diet ensures you dont lose muscle (i.e.: get enough protein).

Muscles dont always lose strength when they lose size.

hemants
09-24-2003, 03:24 PM
"Muscles dont always lose strength when they lose size."

Um, I believe that size and strength of a MUSCLE is directly proportional.

Strength in a lift may vary but that is for reasons other than muscle size I believe.

In any case my main point was that during cutting, strength training is more anti-catabolic to muscle than cardio.

And BTW, patients with kidney problems are able to maintain muscle on very low protein diets via strength training; so on the surface it would appear that strength training is more anti-catabolic than diet composition.

shansen008
09-24-2003, 03:46 PM
How many of those kidney patients were BB'ers? You can only lose so much muscle before you hit a realistic threshold.

Im just going off of my experience before i could gain weight, i was able to gain lots of strength without gaining ANY size. And conversely ive seen guys eat horribly while trying to cut and lose lots of muscle, but because they were still lifting heavy, their strenght stayed relatively the same. Their endurance was total crap, but their 1RM didnt fall off by much.

bradley
09-24-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by hemants
"Muscles dont always lose strength when they lose size."

Um, I believe that size and strength of a MUSCLE is directly proportional.

Strength in a lift may vary but that is for reasons other than muscle size I believe.

In any case my main point was that during cutting, strength training is more anti-catabolic to muscle than cardio.


Neural adaptation would be one reason that muscle size could decrease or remain the same and strength increases.



Your best bet would be caloric defecit and strength training.

Caloric defecit makes you lose WEIGHT.

Strength training ensures that the weight you lose is not muscle.

While I agree with the statements above, cardio can be beneficial in mobilizing stubborn bf. Also HIIT cardio provides a stimulus like that seen with weight training that would also be of benefit.

triplej
09-24-2003, 06:40 PM
what is reasonable for a refeed say your at 2700 cals a day and 75-125 carbs a day along with 300mgs protien and at 220 lbs bw?? what i mean by reasonable is what type of foods??

seK
09-24-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by bradley
While I agree with the statements above, cardio can be beneficial in mobilizing stubborn bf. Also HIIT cardio provides a stimulus like that seen with weight training that would also be of benefit.

How much cadio, I am on a cal def diet and do 1h of weight training 5 days a week. I would like to throw in some cadio but don't want to waste energy that should be spent on muscle growth or maintenance.

triplej
09-24-2003, 07:09 PM
i do 30 min 3 days a week on opposing times of my weight training, IE if i lift in the AM then i do cardio in the PM, or on my 2 off days etc!

AJ_11
09-24-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by triplej
what is reasonable for a refeed say your at 2700 cals a day and 75-125 carbs a day along with 300mgs protien and at 220 lbs bw?? what i mean by reasonable is what type of foods??

For a refeed, generally up you carbs, mainly high Gi for the first half and then go to a lower Gi to finish it of. Typically try to go at least 18X BW. I would problably do a 65/30/5 split for a refeed. that C/P/F btw.

Aviod fructose, suger, high fat meals. Alos there is a difference between refeeds and cheat day, Refeeds are better for leptin levels and cheat day/meals are better for sanity levels. I try to throw in cheat day every 4 or 5th refeed.

bradley
09-25-2003, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by seK
How much cadio, I am on a cal def diet and do 1h of weight training 5 days a week. I would like to throw in some cadio but don't want to waste energy that should be spent on muscle growth or maintenance.

That is really up to you, and I would recommend starting out with cardio on your off days only. Then if you want you could throw in some cardio on your training days, but try and split the two session up if possible.

You have to be the judge as to whether or not the cardio is interfering with your recovery from your weight workouts. If you are training with weights five days per week, you would not want to perform too many cardio sessions, as it could possible interfere with recovery.

bradley
09-25-2003, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by AJ_11
Aviod fructose, suger, high fat meals. Alos there is a difference between refeeds and cheat day, Refeeds are better for leptin levels and cheat day/meals are better for sanity levels. I try to throw in cheat day every 4 or 5th refeed.

Some sugar is fine when refeeding, especially if you have trouble packing in enough carbs during the refeed. Just don't go overboard with the sucrose and/or fructose.

bradley
09-25-2003, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by triplej
what i mean by reasonable is what type of foods??

Anything that contains a high amount of carbs with minimal fat, but keep an eye out for sucrose and fructose.

kid's cereals, bagels, pasta, rice, etc.

AJ_11
09-25-2003, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by bradley


Some sugar is fine when refeeding, especially if you have trouble packing in enough carbs during the refeed. Just don't go overboard with the sucrose and/or fructose.

Some suger is ok. I prefer malto/ dextrose for the first little half blended with some suger free whole wheat cereal