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BSC14
10-25-2003, 02:37 PM
...one day weights and the next cardio? Oh yeah by the way I have some fat to lose.

Saint Patrick
10-25-2003, 02:53 PM
If you're going to do them both in the same day,make sure and do the weights first.

When I was cutting I usually did my cardio on off days, but that was just personal preference.

BSC14
10-25-2003, 02:58 PM
Well the reason I'm asking is because this trainer guy told me you will burn fat a lot faster if you do weights first because you have to burn "something or other" off before the fat goes. Still trainer guys don't always know what they are talking about. Like everything else you have good ones and bad ones so I thought I would ask you guys.

Saint Patrick
10-25-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by BSC14
Still trainer guys don't always know what they are talking about. Like everything else you have good ones and bad ones so I thought I would ask you guys.

Very true, but in this case, he's right.


What happens is when you lift the weights first, you're burning off glycogen, then after the glycogen is depleted, your body uses fat as an energy source.

Not only that, but you have more energy to lift heavier weights.

BSC14
10-25-2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Saint Patrick


Very true, but in this case, he's right.


What happens is when you lift the weights first, you're burning off glycogen, then after the glycogen is depleted, your body uses fat as an energy source.

Not only that, but you have more energy to lift heavier weights.

Thanks for the answers. ;)

defcon
10-25-2003, 03:34 PM
but i alyways thought doing cardio after weights would be catabolic.. maybe have your PW Shake After weights and then cardio? but IMO you should keep cardio on off days, and if you must do both on the same day then i would do cardio in the morning, say after breakfast, and then weights later in the afternoon or the night.

Saint Patrick
10-25-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by defcon
but i alyways thought doing cardio after weights would be catabolic.. maybe have your PW Shake After weights and then cardio?


nah. If you did that, then your PWO shake would replenish your glycogen levels and then when you do the cardio, then you're just buring off glycogen for the first 20-30 mins instead of fat.

Just have the shake after the cardio and you'd be fine.

Shao-LiN
10-25-2003, 04:20 PM
Plus, in my experience, doing cardio before weight lifting makes me a bit more tired and tends to inhibit me from lifting effectively since I'm runnin low on energy.

defcon
10-25-2003, 04:25 PM
What about if you have a whey protein shake after workout, then cardio? but still, its best to space them both out and have proper pre/post nutrition for both :)

aka23
10-25-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by BSC14
Well the reason I'm asking is because this trainer guy told me you will burn fat a lot faster if you do weights first because you have to burn "something or other" off before the fat goes. Still trainer guys don't always know what they are talking about. Like everything else you have good ones and bad ones so I thought I would ask you guys.

Your body uses a mixture of fat, glucose, and glycogen as fuel throughout lower intensity exercise. In portions of higher intensity exercise, nearly 100% of the fuel is glucose/glycogen. The proportions gradually change as duration or intensity changes. Note that you burn fat all day long, whether you have been exercising or not. When you are resting, the majority of your fuel usually comes from fat.

When glycogen stores decrease as the exercise continues, the body utilizes a larger portion of fat as fuel. Costill's studies of treadmill running at 65% VO2 max found fat oxidation accounted for 39% of the energy at the start of the exercise and 67% of the energy 2 hours later. Ahlborg found similar results of increasing fat usage when the exercise continued for 4 hours (at a lower intensity). One could expect a similar pattern if the cardio followed weightlifting, especially weightlifting using similar muscle groups.



Originally posted by defcon
but i alyways thought doing cardio after weights would be catabolic.. maybe have your PW Shake After weights and then cardio? but IMO you should keep cardio on off days, and if you must do both on the same day then i would do cardio in the morning, say after breakfast, and then weights later in the afternoon or the night.

During cardio the primary fuels are glucose/glycogen and fats. A small portion of energy comes from proteins, but this amount is usually insignificant. It usually only becomes significant when glycogen levels get very low. For the most part, the small amount of protein used comes from amino acid stores. If the stores are low or in certain other special situations, the body may catabolize muscle.

The risk of catabolism is dependent on exercise intensity, exercise duration, diet, when exercise is performed, and previous training, among other things:

The risk of catabolism is closely related to decreasing glycogen levels. Glycogen usage increases dramatically as intensity increases. It may take approximately 170 minutes to decrease muscle glycogen levels in half at 70% V02 max (moderate intensity endurance exercise), approximately 50 minutes at 85% V02 max (high intensity endurance execise), or 15 minutes at 150% V02 max (sprint portion of HIIT). These numbers come from The Lore of Running, by Noakes.

The size of the glycogen reserves is effected by diet and training. Glycogen reserves may be about 30% higher on a high (70%) carb diet than a moderate (45%) carb diet. Atheltic training increases the size even more. Under nearly complete glycogen depletion as might occur with a keto type diet, the risk of catabolism is very high. Under these extreme conditions, as much as 10% of the energy in a 1 hour cardio session may come from protein (amino acids reserve and muscle protein). There are certain other times where the risk is also high. First thing in the morning on an empty stomach, liver glycogen levels may be nearly empty. Muscle glycogen levels may be high, but the brain cannot use muscle glycogen. The body may use protein and/or muscle to make up for the low liver glycogen levels. The risk is also high after a weight training session since glycogen levels are lower.


Originally posted by BSC14
Ok for a new guy cardio and weights in the same workout or one day weights and the next cardio? Oh yeah by the way I have some fat to lose.

Doing longer sessions of cardio immediately before or after weights may interfere with your goals. Doing cardio before weights may leave you fatigued so that you can not perform to your best while weightlifting. This may hinder your progress. In addition, it is important to refuel your glycogen reserves following a longer cardio session. This helps improve recovery and helps prevent the protein in your muscles being broken down for energy.

I think doing cardio after weightlifting is better than doing it before. However, the cardio may hinder recovery and muscle gains by delaying the postworkout meal and leaving your body in catabolic state. In addition you may not be fatigued and not able to perform your best during the cardio, interfering with cardiovascular improvement, as well as burning fewer calories. One possible advantage to doing low intensity cardio following weighttraining, is you may have increased fat mobilization, so you burn a larger portion of fat from stuborn areas. There also may be increased fat burning during the activity. This does not mean you will lose more body fat. If you burn a larger portion of calories from fat during the cardio, then you usually burn a smaller portion of calories later in the day. Similarly if you burn a larger portion of calories from glycogen during the cardio, then you usually burn a larger portion of calories from fat later in the day.

The best solution depends on your goals, the exercise intesities, and the exercise durations. I would suggest separating longer amounts of cardio from weights by at least a few hours and a meal. It would be even better if you seperated it by 8-12 hours or did it on alternate days. I think a very short cardio warmup/cooldown before/after weights is fine. This helps reduce injury and may improve performance.

Downunder
10-29-2003, 12:46 AM
I have always ran after doing upper body and swam after lower body and it never hurt my gains. The workout would last 30mins (20 sets) then run or swim for another 30 mins. So it is not an excessive amount of time.