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Borgod Maxximus
11-06-2003, 09:05 PM
Gday,

I'll be beginning my first carb refeed tomorrow and Im wondering if its still beneficial to only refeed for the one day?

ie. do my depletion workout first thing saturday morning, and then refeed during the day, with my final meal before bed saturday night.

Should I continue to sunday aswell?

Im 26, 6' 3" about 24% BF at around 230lbs (105kg)

Also, is flavoured milk a good source of carbs during the day? Is it High GI or low?

Thanks guys!

Severed Ties
11-06-2003, 10:38 PM
I prefer only one day refeeds.


ST

Borgod Maxximus
11-06-2003, 10:51 PM
Aah good.

Thanks for the reply

Newby81
11-06-2003, 10:55 PM
milk and alot of dairy products are somewhat low gi , but the problem is theyll spike the hell out of your insulin,,
when you go on a refeed though,, try to start the first half of the day with high gi carbs and end it with low gi;;fat will be low to moderate ,, and protein shouldnt be too high either:

Borgod Maxximus
11-06-2003, 11:01 PM
How will it spike my insulin as sharply as you describe if it's low GI?

Newby81
11-06-2003, 11:04 PM
at your size about 600-800 carbs ,, 60-80 grams of fat,, 170-200 grams of protein,,, this is just a rough estimate by the way,,, i really dont know what kind of refeed your on,, im thinking a cyclical ketogenic diet because you mentioned a depletion workout ,,, if this is the case,, there is a extremely low chance of fat gain if you keep your fat moderate no matter how many carbs you eat ,, SO ENJOY ,, BUT that means no chocolate and other junk( although some can getaway with it ,, it will slow down your fat loss process
HOPE THIS HELPS

Borgod Maxximus
11-06-2003, 11:10 PM
Those numbers are about what I'll be consuming, yes.

However, thats not the part you confused me with :)

Newby81
11-06-2003, 11:13 PM
there is a glycemic index and there is an insulin index,, in most cases they run parallel,meaning low gi= low insulin surge...
DAIRY PRODUCTS on the other hand defy this case due to lactose ( dairy sugar). although milk may have a gi of 50-60,, 2 hours down the road your blood sugar will rise dramatically...
im not going to lie to you when i used to refeed on ckd,, id eat anything including milk chocolate and other junk,, but i was sitting at about 7-9 percent body fat,, so i really didnt worry about it..
get some fat free milk and have it during the first half of the day and finish your day with oats even pasta

Borgod Maxximus
11-06-2003, 11:20 PM
aah ok thats sometihng i didnt know about

Yep I'm CKD, been on it for almost 2 weeks now and my first refeed is tomorrow.

I bought a litre of no-fat choc milk lastnight so ill drink heaps of that tomorrow morning :)

I havent bought any chocolate, lollies or anything like that.
Ive got alot of pasta to eat, breads (and muffins hehe), bakes beans, rice and Im going to indulge in a low-fat maccas vegeburger or 2 for lunch I think.

I cant wait :)

Thanks

Newby81
11-06-2003, 11:34 PM
why have you only had one refeed on ckd in 2 weeks ???
you should have one once a week ,, some say 2 times a week will work but i honestly believe that it was a little too much through trial... especially if your goal is max fat loss one refeed is more then enough ...
you really dont have to stress over high gi low gi ,, although i would reccomend you consume a 100 grams of dextrose immediatly after the depletion workout( 40-50 grams of protein and no fat) and just go from there the way you want as long as you keep fat moderate
ALSO, a great recommendation for getting back into ketosis would be alpha lipoic acid ,, i noticed that i would reach ketosis much quicker when i took it

Borgod Maxximus
11-06-2003, 11:40 PM
I figured since this is the first time Ive been in ketosis and I am over 20% BF I would allow another week for my body to get used to it. It took 4 days to reach ketosis, hopefully alot quicker next week.

Ive considered ALA, but its pretty expensive.

As of now I'll be refeeding every weekend, thankgod.
I'm absolutely stuffed right now.

Newby81
11-06-2003, 11:41 PM
by the way save your refeed till sunday ,,, and workout monday ( upper body) tuesday( lower body) ,, unless you plan to workout sunday after saturdays refeed,,,, but id advise you not to take a break on sunday and try and workout monday and tuesday because you would have depleted 3/4 of your glycogen on sunday leaving you no energy for mon and tues

Newby81
11-06-2003, 11:42 PM
ala would not be something youll take everyday,, take it after refeed till ketosis is hit ,, then stop

Borgod Maxximus
11-06-2003, 11:50 PM
Ah ok that makes sense.
I dont know if I can wait that long.
I might fit in a short workout on sunday then instead.

Doesn't ALA help shuttle insulin to muscles? How will this help in getting back into ketosis?

Newby81
11-07-2003, 12:06 AM
woahhhhhh,, you only get 2 workouts a week on ckd ,, mon and tuesday,,, they should be the day after refeed and take 60-90 min,, the main thing is these workouts should be intense as possible ,, if your not sweating hardcore during those 2 workouts , you need to step it up a bit
that "short workout" you just mentioned sounded like it was going to be sloppy
by the way you do realize that your depletion workout shouldnt be heavy,, 20 reps ,,, ya you should sweat and make it intense but let it be very light weight

Borgod Maxximus
11-07-2003, 12:13 AM
I have about 3 workouts a week, each about 45mins to an hour.

Yeah tomorrow mornings workout will be longer, but more reps, 50% weight I know.

bradley
11-07-2003, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Newby81
why have you only had one refeed on ckd in 2 weeks ???
you should have one once a week ,, some say 2 times a week will work but i honestly believe that it was a little too much through trial... especially if your goal is max fat loss one refeed is more then enough ...

Since he is at a higher bf%, I see nothing wrong with stretching the ketogenic phase of the diet to 10 days, i.e. carbing up every 10 days. This will allow more time in a calorie deficit, which will correlate to more fat loss. As long as training is not being compromised to a great degree.



by the way save your refeed till sunday ,,, and workout monday ( upper body) tuesday( lower body) ,, unless you plan to workout sunday after saturdays refeed,,,, but id advise you not to take a break on sunday and try and workout monday and tuesday because you would have depleted 3/4 of your glycogen on sunday leaving you no energy for mon and tues

If you are sedentary on Sunday, then you will not deplete muscle glycogen stores to any great degree.

bradley
11-07-2003, 03:08 AM
I would keep fat intake as low as possible, with the exception being omega-3s. If you have fish oil, I would recommend taking these during your refeed, but otherwise keep fat intake low.

defcon
11-07-2003, 05:06 AM
Hmm.. brad, im confused about sumthing, lets say i go 10 days with 2100 cals with a 45/25/30 ratio of p/c/f.. should i do a depletion workout before my refeed? like say.. workout 10 on saterday morning to deplete, then start my refeed? and go back to the normal diet on sunday?

bradley
11-07-2003, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by defcon
Hmm.. brad, im confused about sumthing, lets say i go 10 days with 2100 cals with a 45/25/30 ratio of p/c/f.. should i do a depletion workout before my refeed? like say.. workout 10 on saterday morning to deplete, then start my refeed? and go back to the normal diet on sunday?

I would recommend centering the refeed around your training, whether you start the refeed before or after the workout is up to you. A couple of points worth mentioning:

1) If you start the refeed immediately after your training you will see increased nutrient partitioning and an increased rate of glycogen storage, which would come about due to training.

2) If you began the refeed before training, you would more than likely experience a greater amount of energy during your training, due to the increased calories.

defcon
11-07-2003, 06:51 AM
Hmm, i tihnk i'll start the refeed with 1 meal before my workout, i won't make this meal huge or anything, just bigger then normal.. i guess.

Thanx for the 2 points in the mean time :)

AJ_11
11-07-2003, 05:01 PM
I prefer doing heavy compound movement especially before a refeed as the amt of cals burn after will be greater and also you may recieve a greater anabolic boost. THere are arguements for both because some say it does not deplete muscle glycogen levels like exhausting muscles but you can combine heavy with supersets.

Also try to have some low gi frit before as it will signal your body into a fed state thus creating a more anabolic enviroment. I usually have an apple with every meal. Other than that keep fructose low. And actual suger (glucose/fructose)

Borgod Maxximus
11-07-2003, 10:03 PM
Well thismorning I ate 2 pieces of fruit and had 500mL of milk before my depletion workout to get me out of ketosis and I had a very difficult depletion workout.
I was lifting 50% of my weights yet I was so exhausted from 12 days on CKD that I was very weak.

Today I'm refeeding and haven't had the best start with my car breaking down, however now I'm back on track. Tomorrow I'll begin CKD again and towards the end of next week I'll assess how Im feeling whether to refeed again next weekend or wait a little longer.

defcon
11-08-2003, 05:29 AM
sucky that your car broke down man :( atleast you wernt late for work or anything haha, that happened to me during the summer, i got a job.. 3rd shift up there my car breaks down and i come in an hour late.. needless to say i was 10 mins early every other shift that i worked :P

Anyway, as ife learned its hard to "plan" a refeed, just gotta go by how you feel, so keep us updated on how things go if you don;t mind :)

harryhoudini66
11-08-2003, 08:33 PM
I started refeeding on Friday evenings after depletion workout and all day Saturday. When my weight loss hated, I dropped the evening refeeding and had only Saturday refeeds.

Borgod Maxximus
11-09-2003, 07:01 PM
harry: did weightloss (assuming/hoping fatloss) after that continue?

defcon: yeah it could of been a lot worse, lucky it was a saturday morning, and lucky it wasnt last weekend when I was in the middle of the bush away for the weekend with the missus.

Anyway, I got back on track once I got home, was absolutely full most of the day. 2 low fat burgers, curry & rice, pasta for dinner, coke and yogo in there amongst it aswell.
Saturday night I went over a mates house and I only had 1 beers, 2 slices of white bread (no butter) and 1 sausage, got home at 1:30am and had a can of baked beans :)

By sunday I was feeling alot better, very tired still but better, and ready for another week of lifting.

Im going to weigh myself only once a week now, on the friday mornings. Before I was weighing myself every morning and my weightloss was up and down and I was getting fustrated a little.

Back on CKD yesterday and today and I'm ready for more fatloss!!

Next refeed I think I'll be eating a little cleaner, more rice, potatoes, pasta and baked beans.
The best part of the whole refeed was most definitely the first bite into the sweet apple first thing in the morning, that was bliss :)

harryhoudini66
11-09-2003, 09:46 PM
Yes it did. I was averaging 3 pounds per week and then it stopped. When I changed refeed time I started lossing again. I only lose like 1-2 pounds now though.