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Spartacus
12-08-2003, 02:08 PM
assuming you get enough protein to begin with, why does increasing calories go to muscle and not just to adipose tissue? assuming there is always sufficient protein, efa, vits/minerals

this seems like a simple question but i'm not sure of the answer.

:scratch:

bradley
12-08-2003, 04:02 PM
assuming you get enough protein to begin with, why does increasing calories go to muscle and not just to adipose tissue? assuming there is always sufficient protein, efa, vits/minerals


Simple answer would be that training will cause increased nutrient partitioning.

Spartacus
12-08-2003, 04:34 PM
that wasn't quite what i was asking.

given equal micronutrients, training volume, etc. why would someone with 3500 calories gain more muscle than someone taking in 3000 calories.

what is the step(s) in between injestion of +500 calories and some extra muscle growth?

Shao-LiN
12-08-2003, 11:26 PM
Who says someone eating 3500 calories will gain more muscle than someone eating 3000?

galileo
12-09-2003, 06:57 AM
Depending on metabolism that could be true or false. You won't get [much] extra muscle growth from overdoing the calories (unless you naturally, or supernaturally have a better hormone ratio). You can do better with just a little over maintenance, putting on weight slowly, and come out with much less fatgain.

powerhalf
12-09-2003, 08:59 PM
given equal micronutrients, training volume, etc. why would someone with 3500 calories gain more muscle than someone taking in 3000 calories.

what is the step(s) in between injestion of +500 calories and some extra muscle growth?

This reminds me of a question that I've been pondering for awhile. When we talk about the 3 macronutrients, we talk about carbs, protein, and fat. Are these three nutrients the only sources of calories in food and drink? That would be my guess.

If that's so, then it is not possible for someone who is eating 3,000 calories a day to have the same macronutrients as someone who is eating 3.5k kcals/day.

geoffgc
12-09-2003, 09:24 PM
I've always believed it was because you can never really figure out the precise caloric need of your body at any given moment for maximum muscle growth. Therefore, you 'top off' your fuel tank just enough that whatever that caloric need was, it is being met. Yes the extra fuel spills onto your waistline, but if you don't over do it, it won't be much.

This make sense to anyone? Or is it too over simplified?

Shao-LiN
12-09-2003, 10:46 PM
Play with words here...someone eating 3500 calories doesn't necessarily gain more than someone eating 3000 calories. If anything, they can be gaining the same amount of muscle at the same rate. It's different for everyone.

bradley
12-10-2003, 01:03 PM
Are these three nutrients the only sources of calories in food and drink? That would be my guess.


Alcohol

Anthony
12-10-2003, 01:58 PM
I know alcohol is considered a "macronutrient" because it provides energy, but it's made from starches and sugars, so it could be argued it breaks down to carbs.

bradley
12-10-2003, 04:23 PM
Alcohol is absorbed rapidly since it does not require any digestion, and the liver will break down alcohol into acetaldehyde and will be further broken down into acetic acid. If alcohol were to be broken down into carbs it would kick people out of ketosis, which is not the case.

Anthony
12-10-2003, 05:29 PM
Okay, maybe not carbs, but where is the energy in alcohol? Could it be from the acetic acid being used to form fatty acids?

bradley
12-11-2003, 02:14 AM
Okay, maybe not carbs, but where is the energy in alcohol? Could it be from the acetic acid being used to form fatty acids?

Acetate, which is the final product of alcohol metabolism, will be converted into ketone bodies and eventually be turned into fat or cholesterol, or expelled from the body,

russianwol
12-06-2006, 07:40 AM
Ugh. sorry to dig out old thread but Anthony's question wasn't really answered. Now I'm curious.

The calories - where do they come from? Are the ketone bodies then broken down to glucose?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-06-2006, 01:53 PM
There's 7 calories per gram of alcohol. Not sure why this is.

Davidelmo
12-06-2006, 02:45 PM
Also to answer the original question:

The process of building muscle actually uses calories. Protein synth takes energy.

Think of it like this:
Protein - amino acids are the bricks
Calories are the workers

Without enough bricks you can't build anything, no matter how many workers you have. i.e. lots of calories and not enough protein will make you fat.

However a huge pile of bricks but only one worker wont get you very far. i.e. without a calorie surplus you'll be lucky to add muscle at any appreciable rate.

The key is to find an optimal speed where you gain decently with minimal fat.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-06-2006, 04:44 PM
lots of calories and not enough protein will make you fat.Well lots of calories and plenty of protein will also make you fat. Your original point is still valid though. Protein synthesis is a very demanding process and requires lots of energy. This is also why sleep is so important because that is one of sleep's main functions -- tissue repair/regeneration. It shuts down all of your normal processes and reserves itself for healing and such.

arnoldsclone
12-06-2006, 05:01 PM
Well lots of calories and plenty of protein will also make you fat. Your original point is still valid though. Protein synthesis is a very demanding process and requires lots of energy. This is also why sleep is so important because that is one of sleep's main functions -- tissue repair/regeneration. It shuts down all of your normal processes and reserves itself for healing and such.

wow this post has been super informative! :clap: seriously!

russianwol
12-06-2006, 05:42 PM
Well I guess the question about "where are calories come from in alcohol" is hard to answer because calorie is a measure of energy.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_energy#Chemical_energy

"Chemical energy of a chemical substance can be transformed to other forms of energy by a chemical reaction. For example, when a fuel is burned the chemical energy is converted to heat, same is the case with digestion of food metabolized in a biological organism. Green plants transform solar energy to chemical energy through the process known as photosynthesis, and electrical energy can be converted to chemical energy through electrochemical reactions.

The similar term chemical potential is used by chemists to indicate the potential of a substance to undergo a chemical reaction."

But would that mean that there are more ATP molecules generated from one unit of ethanol (alcohol) than unit of glucose there fore yelding more energy than carbs?

russianwol
12-06-2006, 05:47 PM
Acetate, which is the final product of alcohol metabolism, will be converted into ketone bodies and eventually be turned into fat or cholesterol, or expelled from the body,

Or burned for fuel if the body is in the state of ketosis I would think. I'm reading about Kerbs Cycle and trying not to lose my mind.

But this is interesting from the perspective of the energy consumption/expenditure.

I would assume that the only time that food gets stored in the adipose tissue is when there's no immediate need for energy by the body. So that means that glucogen stores are full, liver glucose is full. The liver will then convert whatever chemicals it has into triglycerides (sp) which will then be stored in the adipose tissue.

Unless said triglycerides are broken down for energy during aerobic respiration...

Did I just totally made a fool of myself in front of any seasoned bio chemist?

Max Thunder
12-06-2006, 06:02 PM
From a simple evolution point of view:

Under certain circumstances, it is ideal to make reserves of protein, in case of famine or disease. Since these reserves are expensive in term of calories, this usually will happen when one is taking a lot of calories, unless the drive is very strong (drive: training in general, steroids, other hormones etc. - they all influence on each others).

russianwol
12-06-2006, 06:05 PM
From a simple evolution point of view:

Under certain circumstances, it is ideal to make reserves of protein, in case of famine or disease. Since these reserves are expensive in term of calories, this usually will happen when one is taking a lot of calories, unless the drive is very strong (drive: training in general, steroids, other hormones etc. - they all influence on each others).

Did you mean to say "make reserves of fat"? Historically, during famine the people that survived were those that carried more fat. Simply speaking LBM requires calories. During famile calories are not available externally. Best source of calories is fat - 10Cal/g. People with fat storage are more likely to survive famine.

I read an article somewhere that we as in weight lifters, body builders, etc are actually fighting against nature :)

russianwol
12-06-2006, 06:08 PM
To answer the OP's question.

The extra food does not cause extra muscle growth. Muscles grow only when they are first damaged through resistance training, then given rest to repair and nutrition is provided for said repair!

The body overrepairs the muscle though - that's how you get muscle growth. Now generally it's hard to predict the exact amount of calories needed for such repair. Thus people bulk - consume slightly over (or a lot over) the needs of the body to guarantee that there's enough provided for repair.

The extra will of course be stored as fat...