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fit4fun
12-19-2003, 07:08 AM
Just a few questions for those who have tried the Ultimate Diet 2.0.

Pros?
Cons?
How long you were following it?
Results?

Comments?

AndresC
12-19-2003, 08:21 AM
Can you post a link? I wanan learn what it is.

galileo
12-19-2003, 08:33 AM
Pros:
It works

Cons:
The training frequency is brutal

Length:
8 weeks with a one week break

Results:
Lost 6lbs of fat the first 3 weeks, then consistently dropped about 0.5% per week at the end.

Comments:
Only do it if you need it. My tendons are still sore.

Maki Riddington
12-19-2003, 08:58 AM
Can you post a link? I wanan learn what it is.

*** http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=118

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=125

I'd suggest that you buy the book. It's well worth the money.

Jasonl
12-19-2003, 06:46 PM
*** http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=118

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=125

I'd suggest that you buy the book. It's well worth the money.
Thanks for the links Maki, after reading through those I've finally decided to buy the book, I was going to do it anyway, but I've been putting it off. Well, off to the bookstore.

TheGimp
12-20-2003, 05:10 AM
Cons:
The training frequency is brutal


So it's not just a diet, there's a lifting routine to go with it??

Is it possible for a vegetarian to follow the diet?

bradley
12-20-2003, 05:32 AM
So it's not just a diet, there's a lifting routine to go with it??

Is it possible for a vegetarian to follow the diet?

Possibly if you eat eggs/egg whites, but most vegetarian diets would not fit within the macronutrient limits Lyle sets forth in his book (carbs).

iLUDEd
12-20-2003, 05:42 AM
So it's not just a diet, there's a lifting routine to go with it??


yeah, the book outline's a routine for you to follow, im starting it tomorrow, i havnt been able to put the book down since i bought it

TheGimp
12-20-2003, 12:48 PM
Thanks for the heads up. Actually I hate eggs and "eggy" food but will have them as an ingredient. Any chance of some specifics? It could be easier than you think for a vegetarian to meet the macros with the various meat substitutes on offer that one wouldn't really give any attention if they weren't vegetarian. Although if its anything really low carb like Atkins I agree it would nigh on impossible. I'm interested in getting the book, but if it's no use to me, well, there's no point :)

bradley
12-20-2003, 01:27 PM
Thanks for the heads up. Actually I hate eggs and "eggy" food but will have them as an ingredient. Any chance of some specifics? It could be easier than you think for a vegetarian to meet the macros with the various meat substitutes on offer that one wouldn't really give any attention if they weren't vegetarian. Although if its anything really low carb like Atkins I agree it would nigh on impossible. I'm interested in getting the book, but if it's no use to me, well, there's no point :)

I am not going to get into specifics but it is technically a keto diet. The book is a great read, even if you do not decide to do the actual plan as it is put forth in the book.

TheGimp
12-20-2003, 03:56 PM
Thanks, I guess I'll give it a read then :)

Manveet
12-20-2003, 05:30 PM
Are there any other places to purchase the book besides online?

IronDaddy
12-20-2003, 08:26 PM
Are there any other places to purchase the book besides online?
I think that's it. You can go to Lyle's sight at www.bodyrecomposition.com and ask him if you'd like.

iLUDEd
12-21-2003, 08:44 AM
you can get it online from amazon also

donescobar2000
12-21-2003, 08:16 PM
On 2.0 I turn to shreds. Its a brutal workout though. Its great overall though!

Shao-LiN
12-21-2003, 08:58 PM
Definately takes a lot of dedication.

donescobar2000
12-21-2003, 09:00 PM
Yes it does. It pretty much killer. I'm feeling it now and Im only on day 2. 1.75 more days left till i carb load.

galileo
12-22-2003, 06:58 AM
I am not going to get into specifics but it is technically a keto diet. The book is a great read, even if you do not decide to do the actual plan as it is put forth in the book.
I only hit ketosis a few times on the diet and I was still very successfuly. The goal isn't ketosis, even if you slip into it easily.

Here are some quotes from the book, I'm sure he won't mind.


Frankly, using a low-carbohydrate/ketogenic diet for the fat loss phase of UD2 has more to do with lowering insulin, raising catecholamines, and ramping up fat oxidation; ketosis is simply a tangential effect.


Since I don't care about ketosis, I don't see any real need to reduce carbs below...

donescobar2000
12-22-2003, 07:05 AM
I normally bounce back and forth from ketosis to a regular state myself.

galileo
12-22-2003, 08:14 AM
It takes a bit for me to get into ketosis, although a few times I did feel the keto nausea coming on (thwarted by some timely carbs). I don't think it made one bit of difference in my progress though. In fact, I lost a lot less muscle than some of the other people who used this diet and it's likely because I raised the carbs slightly higher and avoided ketosis.


[edit]

Shao-LiN
12-22-2003, 11:40 AM
I've actually gained large amounts of strength on this diet while dropping bodyfat. My weight hasn't dropped all that much, but my physique has improved. So, I'm going to assume that I've added LBM and dropped BF.

fit4fun
01-27-2004, 10:59 AM
Thought I would check back on this thread. Any new updates from those who have tried the UD2? Comments? I bought & read the book. Getting ready to give it a go.

donescobar2000
01-27-2004, 11:06 AM
Im doing it now. I'm notice a bit of fat loss. Im on my 3rd week. Refeeding now! :D

Jasonl
01-27-2004, 04:32 PM
I'm on my 2nd week right now, I HIGHLY recommend it if you're dedicated and have lots of self control. The first week was very tough as the starvation days drove me to the brink of insanity, but now I'm using Thermocin and that seems to be helping me a lot. Not only with cravings and hunger, but also engergy to power through the brutal workouts. Buy the book, if nothing else you'll learn a lot. I've seen a very very minor change in physique, it could be in my head, though.

Maki Riddington
01-27-2004, 05:06 PM
Most of Lyle's methods require a certain amount of self discipline. He doesn't cater to the mainstream because most people expect the diet to do the work instead of them doing the work. In other words, most people are lazy bastards.

Jasonl
01-27-2004, 06:23 PM
Most of Lyle's methods require a certain amount of self discipline. He doesn't cater to the mainstream because most people expect the diet to do the work instead of them doing the work. In other words, most people are lazy bastards.
Exactly!:)

TheGimp
01-28-2004, 12:32 AM
I ended up buying the book and I'm even giving the diet a go; only been a couple of weeks so not much progress to report but it sure seems hardcore enough.

donescobar2000
01-28-2004, 04:14 AM
Yes it is brutal. Dieting is easy though. Just make sure you have your protien ready. You really dont have to worry about cooking any carbs. Its a program for someone on the go.

Exnor
01-28-2004, 04:55 AM
Seems like an interesting diet, although I am quite surprised by some of the foul language on his website.

donescobar2000
01-28-2004, 05:44 AM
It's gonna happen.

Manveet
01-29-2004, 10:19 PM
Regarding the E-book. Do you only get to view that thing one time?

TheGimp
01-30-2004, 12:30 AM
It's a PDF which you download. So no, you can view it as often as you wish. I frequently find myself referring back to it.

donescobar2000
01-30-2004, 05:56 AM
No. You get a copy as an acrobat file.

VasDeferens
01-30-2004, 06:51 AM
Bought this book last week. I have read the first 3-4 chapters...havent yet reached the real thing but I can say that Lyle is one funny biatch.

Manveet
01-30-2004, 10:36 AM
Just got the e-book last night as well. So far it seems like a very good read.

Deathwish
05-12-2004, 09:58 PM
Bumping this thread. I'm gonna try this diet out. Hoping for results as good as you all have gotten.

thetopdog
05-12-2004, 11:44 PM
How much does this cost?



Edit-Nevermind I was just being lazy :bash:

Shao-LiN
05-12-2004, 11:49 PM
Regarding the E-book. Do you only get to view that thing one time?

That's how the guy makes money! He charges you for it each time you want to see! :zipit:

Hehe, anyway, hardcore diet indeed. Finishing up my 2nd cycle of it. I've lost about 10 pounds in the 8 weeks, but I've also been gaining strength and lean mass. People actually say I look bigger, hehe...no complaints here.

wleon
05-13-2004, 07:20 AM
You get a pdf file and since you download it to your computer you can see it whenever you want to

Deathwish
05-13-2004, 10:10 AM
I bought the book for $25 from amazon.com. The ebook is $20 from his site.

Vido
05-13-2004, 03:49 PM
I know Lyle has his suggestions for using UD2 on a bulk, and far be it from me to question his thoughts, but how is this for an idea:

Days 1-5 remain the same as on the fat loss diet. However, instead of eating at maintenance on the weekend, you continue to "overfeed", perhaps not with carbs because glycogen stores should be full at this point, but with ample fats and proteins. So, basically what it comes down to is severe undereating for 3 days, followed by overeating for 4 days (the first 2 of which are a carb load).

Now, I'm not questioning Lyle because I assure you he knows more about nutrition than myself. However, my reasoning behind this is that the way I have it laid out it would seem that you take more advantage of the changing hormonal levels, which is what UD2 is based on. I don't see his "bulking" version of UD2 being anywhere near the same as the cutting version because you aren't playing around with calories enough.

Thoughts?

Manveet
05-14-2004, 09:22 AM
I know Lyle has his suggestions for using UD2 on a bulk, and far be it from me to question his thoughts, but how is this for an idea:

Days 1-5 remain the same as on the fat loss diet. However, instead of eating at maintenance on the weekend, you continue to "overfeed", perhaps not with carbs because glycogen stores should be full at this point, but with ample fats and proteins. So, basically what it comes down to is severe undereating for 3 days, followed by overeating for 4 days (the first 2 of which are a carb load).

Now, I'm not questioning Lyle because I assure you he knows more about nutrition than myself. However, my reasoning behind this is that the way I have it laid out it would seem that you take more advantage of the changing hormonal levels, which is what UD2 is based on. I don't see his "bulking" version of UD2 being anywhere near the same as the cutting version because you aren't playing around with calories enough.

Thoughts?

Well, his version does make a lot of sense. You are eating a bit below maintenance during the diet days, and you are eating a bit above maintenance for the diet variable days. I'm not sure how it would work out if you manipulated calories even more drastically than what he's outlined.

You can always post the question on his site:
http://wwww.bodyrecomposition.com

run a search - "Ultimate Diet and bulking" and read the first thread that comes up.

Vido
05-14-2004, 11:53 AM
Well, his version does make a lot of sense. You are eating a bit below maintenance during the diet days, and you are eating a bit above maintenance for the diet variable days. I'm not sure how it would work out if you manipulated calories even more drastically than what he's outlined.

You can always post the question on his site:
http://wwww.bodyrecomposition.com

run a search - "Ultimate Diet and bulking" and read the first thread that comes up.

Thanks for the link Manveet, I will take a look at that later on.

The only reason I ask this question is that the UD2 is completely based on hormonal fluctuations and your ability to take advantage of them via certain training methods and eating habits. The bulking version appears to stray from this, and to me anyway, just seems more like a regular bulk. The only way you are going to get those drastically changing hormonal levels is to have days of extreme over or undereating. Eating 10% below maintenance on the diet days isn't going to accomplish much imo.

Cyclical diets like this aren't anything new, Lyle has just perfected his own version. I believe the very first one was alternating periods of 2 weeks of overeating with 2 weeks of undereating. This didn't work because it wasn't utilizing the various hormones to their full capabilities. Subjects gained too much fat in the overeating period and lost too much muscle in the undereating period because both were far too long. Thus, one complete cycle lasted 4 weeks and took 2 steps forward and then 2 back.

I've never tried a diet like this, but after reading UD2 it's definitely got me thinking again. My thoughts for bulking are for someone with a slower metabolism it would be 3 days of undereating followed by 4 days of overeating, while someone with a better metabolism could probably get away with 2 days of undereating and 5 of overeating. Like I said, Lyle's clearly far more credible than I am, but I would like someone to tell me why my diet would not work just as well or better than his.

Maki Riddington
05-15-2004, 04:12 PM
This fall granted my bodyfat is under control I will be using a similiar method you're talking about. Right now, I have one of my clients overfeeding for a week and underfeeding for a week with different macronutrient ratios for each phase. So far he's gained two pounds with each phase (1 phase being a week of over eating and a week of under eating).

Vido
05-15-2004, 05:48 PM
I still think one week periods are too long, when the "best" fat-burning and "best" muscle-building occur within the first few days of either under or overeating due to the most optimal hormonal levels at these times. When I say "best" for fat-burning I mean best fat loss/muscle loss ratio, and when I say "best" for muscle-building I mean best muscle gain/fat gain ratio. Also, underfeeding takes a lot of will power and to keep it up over an entire week would be much more difficult than doing so for 2-3 days. Just my thoughts anyway.

Shao-LiN
05-15-2004, 07:31 PM
Sign up on bodyrecomposition forums and ask him =).

ctarden
05-16-2004, 11:47 PM
I have been following a modified version of Atkins carb loading inconsistenly every weekend, however my results were so/so... I have been on UD2 for two weeks and my strength gains are incredible... The low carb days don't bother me at all, since I am pretty used to training on low carbs, but damn I have so much ****ing power on Saturdays now... Squats/Bench/Curls... It is absolutely amazing... Most people are lazy bastards, and this diet DOES take a lot of dedication... This is only for people who are serious about getting ripped... The biggest difference I see with Lyle's book is it is a combination of diet and weight training... I mean you training program varies based on how you eat... It is very cool... I am going to stay on it for 8 weeks then stop...

Gigante66
05-17-2004, 11:36 PM
I purchased this book yesterday off amazon, just waiting for it to come in. How realistic is the diet for someone with school and such, talking high school.

Vido
05-18-2004, 12:45 AM
I think it can definitely be done while in school. However, I don't know if such a hardcore approach is conducive to studying effectively.

Gigante66
05-18-2004, 08:11 AM
Ahh, I gotcha. I will try it and see how it works, and may have to add something to help keep my mind flowing.

supirman
05-18-2004, 06:28 PM
Personally I didn't like the diet much. The workouts were just too many damn reps and too light of weights for me. I did lose 8 lbs in a matter of a few weeks, but it was probably a good amount of muscle along with some fat. It's not that the workouts were too hard, it's just that I have absolutely no desire to do that many reps... I get bored after about 8 and any more makes me want to go home. Not to mention, over the 8 years I've been lifting, I've noticed a direct correlation between weights lifted and muscle size. My body responds VERY well to extreme weights, and all the high rep stuff was beating the **** out of my joints.

Needless to say, I switched to a more standard diet/workout and it's been working wonders for me. Fat is coming off like crazy and I'm getting stronger too.

In closing, I have heard many success stories of UD2, so I'd suggest people at least try it to see if it works out well for them.

Deathwish
05-19-2004, 11:35 PM
The point of the high rep low weight workout days is glycogen depletion. That is simply the best way to do it.

Vido
05-20-2004, 12:50 AM
I'm sure he realizes that, but some people just don't like high rep training and if you don't like going to the gym you're doing the wrong program imo.

EdgarMex
05-20-2004, 10:03 AM
Yeah, some people get turned away from UD2 because of the high rep workouts and/or full body workouts, not because the diet itself.

Shao-LiN
05-20-2004, 11:04 AM
Definately not for the faint of heart. If you can't handle really high volume workouts, then this program isn't for you. You'll need a lot of dedication to get through it.

Silverback
05-20-2004, 11:41 AM
lol, sounds like some kind of torture hehe!

If your not getting ready for a contest then there is no need for extremes, i like supirmans idea that heavy weights ought to be used. Take a look at Rambo's post over at Anabolic Review on diet (influenced by Swolecat) its nothing extreme and works a treat :)

supirman
05-20-2004, 01:54 PM
Yea, screw depletion lol. I just hated going to the gym everyday for that crap. I get much better results following a more standard approach, and I always keep the heavy weights!

Actually, I'm using swolecat's sgx program. So far so good!

Silverback
05-20-2004, 02:30 PM
Yea, screw depletion lol. I just hated going to the gym everyday for that crap. I get much better results following a more standard approach, and I always keep the heavy weights!

Actually, I'm using swolecat's sgx program. So far so good!

really?! how much does his program cost? ive been thinking about it, but lately ive just been asking questions over at AR.

supirman
05-20-2004, 02:32 PM
well, he doesn't really like any information about his program to be talked about anywhere. email him, he'll tell you. swole@swolecat.com

supirman
05-20-2004, 02:32 PM
plus there's an entire support forum with all of his clients. they all help each other out.

Silverback
05-20-2004, 02:37 PM
Sweet i'll have a look, Im thinking it could be a good investment especially after the good comments ive heard.

supirman
05-20-2004, 04:36 PM
It's certainly a good investment. It's not for those without money as it's a bit pricey... but everybody I've talked to that has done it (including myself, though I'm only in week 2) thinks VERY highly of it. As with anything, it's not a miracle program, but if you follow it to the T, it WILL WORK!

Deathwish
05-20-2004, 10:56 PM
lIf your not getting ready for a contest then there is no need for extremes

This diet was designed to burn fat while preserving muscle. It's not really an extreme just the method used.

Shao-LiN
05-21-2004, 07:10 AM
It's for those not blessed with great genetics. Some people can lose quite easily using a standard approach, while others tend to have a stalling point. And yes, one of the bigger selling points of the diet is retaining LBM while dropping the fat fast. Others have success gaining LBM on the diet while dropping the fat, I'm one of those.

And for Big-Ron, they're not all depletion workouts. You do a power workout as well which makes you go heavy. With my experience, my strength levels have sky-rocketed, and I'm cutting.

HobbesAB
05-21-2004, 08:19 AM
Depletion workouts aren't limited to high reps/low weight weight training. You can incorporate heavy bag work, HIIT, rowing, whatever into it. If you do a search at his site, he talks about alternatives.

Augury
05-22-2004, 02:32 PM
I bought UD2 recently. For whoever it was that was asking the price i paid $20 for the e-book.

The information in there is very well laid out, his arguments for why you are doing what you are doing are bulletproof. Its a bit heavy going in places (and i am someone who does degree level physiology amongst other things) but he explains everything very will in laymans turns and avoids overcomplicating things.

The folks over at the forum do indeed help each other out on the diet. Its very much an "endurance" thing from what ive seen. So moral support is sometimes needed from those who have done it and know the results. I suppose the good part about UD2 is that becasue it uses just about every physiological trick in the book to lose fat and retain LBM the fat comes off fast. And when you can see that happening it does really help motivate you.
Augs

AllUp
05-24-2004, 09:46 AM
Three words...
Worth every penny :)

Gigante66
05-25-2004, 11:15 PM
I'm 50 pages into it, so far, DEFINATELY worth it.

Shao-LiN
05-25-2004, 11:51 PM
The explanations of different training, diet methods, and metabolic responses make the book worth the read alone; even if you don't want to do the diet.

Augury
05-26-2004, 05:46 AM
Hey Shao-LiN,

Linkin Park are bad for you man. Didnt anyone tell you? Whatever happened to the guitar solo :(

Augs