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chris mason
12-24-2003, 01:27 PM
I am out in Phoenix for the holidays visiting family and friends. I have been sick for the majority of my vacation but finally felt well enough to go to the gym today.

My friend Chuck and I went together. Chuck is just over 6' tall and weighs in the 300 lb range. He was doing legs. So, he starts squatting. I noted he used no belt and no wraps, completely RAW. He also squats using an Olympic style (bar high in the back, feet pretty close together, and goes quite deep).

He started with 135 then went to 315. He handled 315 like nothing. He used a slow negative and then an explosive concentric lift. Next he went with 405 and handled it easily. He next loaded up 495 and did 1 rep with a bit more difficulty. He was determined to give 6 plates a whirl. He missed with 6 plates, but he would have been good for the mid 500s in my opinion.

To me this was a VERY impressive display of lower body power. To squat 5 plates + with no belt, wraps, suit, or anything else using an Olympic style is VERY impressive. What is more impressive is that he is back to lifting for only 8 months after years of not training.

Good stuff!

Manveet
12-24-2003, 02:42 PM
that's the first time he's squatted in 8 months?

Impressive stuff either way.

chris mason
12-24-2003, 04:39 PM
No, no, he has only been training again for 8 months.

Hercule
12-24-2003, 05:00 PM
Damn, that is impressive. I squat olympic style also, but I am nowhere near 500lbs :).

Chris Rodgers
12-24-2003, 05:07 PM
That is very good. Just to give you an idea about the gear vs. raw, one of my training partners who has squatted 855x2 in full gear in the gym and hit 843 and just missed 903 at my last meet squatted 555x8 completely raw last week in training. He's a beast as well. About 5'10" and 300ish fairly lean. I bet if your friend got in some decent gear and learned to use it he could squat 700+. He may not care, but I figured you'd like to hear about the correlation between raw vs. gear squats in a real example.

Sug
12-24-2003, 09:23 PM
WTF? 5 10 300ish? How big are the dimensions of this guy? I saw Hugo Girard on TV at something like 6 2 300lbs and the guys massive. But the same weight 4inches shorter is hard to imagine. Anyway not to hijack the thread, but Latman have you always squatted so heavy? LIke when you first started were you able to squat alot of weight? Im just curious b/c you aquat about 600lbs and weigh 158~?

Chris Rodgers
12-25-2003, 11:22 AM
Sug- you have to understand that I use suppoertive powerlifting equipment and that I can't just walk up to 575-600 lbs and lift it completely raw.

Now, in my first ever meet in March 2002, I squatted 320 in knee wraps and a belt. In the next meet I squatted only 330 even with a squat suit added. Since then I have come along way and my form is waaaay better. I now have a much strong squat suit and it suits my strengths/weaknesses very well. I have practiced a good amount in it and have been able to get a very good carryover from it. I just wanted to make sure you completely understood I wasn't doing that raw.

chris mason
12-25-2003, 12:15 PM
Thanks for the info Chris, but I had a pretty good idea. In fact, I mentioned to him that if he adopted a more powerlifting friendly stance and added the supportive gear I was sure he would be 800+ (remember I mentioned he uses what is basically an Olympic style).

Chris Rodgers
12-26-2003, 03:14 PM
It's funny you say that. I remember Dave Tate saying something about that. He said an OL lifter who could go ass to calves with 450(or something like that) couldn't just throw gear on and hit 800+, but a 800+ powerlifter could go ATF with 450 raw no problem. I think this was his way of showing that the quads weren't important for moving the real big weights and that the OL wouldn't have the hams/hips/glutes/back to move 800. Just a thought. I'm not saying whether your friend could or couldn't do 800.

Hercule
12-26-2003, 04:41 PM
As for stance, it is possible to squat equally big weights w/ either stance. Shane Hammon squats over 1000lbs. w/ an olympic stance. Most of the elite Olifters squat at least 800lbs, and front squat well over 500lbs. Although, I am sure 1000+ would be easier with the mechanical advantage of a PL style stance.

chris mason
12-27-2003, 12:57 PM
Actually, I have seen a picture of Hamman squatting over 1000 lbs and he is by no means using Olympic style when he did so.

Your point is well taken that style is more influenced by the lifter's strengths. In other words, some people are stronger with a closer stance and others with a wider stance. That said, in general, using the gear today's lifters do, the wide stance seems to be the style of choice.

Sug
12-27-2003, 09:33 PM
Damn, thats impressive Latman, HOw much can you squat raw? And how much did you start off with when you first started to workout, no meets or competitions, just in the begining? Thanks for the info.

Btw the wide stance doesnt use that much quad strength or it isnt as important as ham/glutew/hips/back? How is that?

Chris Rodgers
12-28-2003, 09:13 AM
I remember back in the day struggling with less than 100 lbs and I was squatting pretty high. I then progressed to the point of being able to hit just over 200 with decent depth. I started reading articles on squatting on EliteFts and I messed around with a wide stance and better bar placement. I remember hitting a big PR right away of over 250. I really don't know what I can squat raw. I have squatted over 300 on a low box with a narrow stance with just a belt. If I felt my raw strength on squats would really increase my squats in gear I would do them more, but really the more I use the gear the more my squat goes up. The most I have ever tried in just a belt with free squats is 315. I think if I did a raw cycle I could get over 400, but it just doesn't fit with my goals right now. I'd rather prepare to break 600 in my next meet.

When I squat wide(very wide) I focus on arching very hard and sitting back with the knees out. I don't drive with my legs out of the hole. I come out of the bottom by driving my head into the bar and arching it out with my back. You send the hips forward and squeeze the glutes. This is the why box squats are very important and help you learn to squat like this.

Sug
12-28-2003, 11:49 AM
What are box squats? I hear it all the time But I dont know what they are, Im guessing its when you have the two thin bars holding up the bar in the middle instead of resting on the sides like a regular squat box?

Anthony
12-28-2003, 11:51 AM
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/images/boxsquat.mpg.mpg

MixmasterNash
12-29-2003, 01:33 AM
This may be as good a place as any to ask this:
What are your opinions on "heavy" squatting without any equipment?

I do all of my exercises without a belt, let alone any wraps or whatnot. My squat max is a pretty decent poundage but I definately lose a little form at the bottom of max attempts and end up doing a bit of a good morning at the bottom.

An aside, which is as much directed at myself as anyone:
Is there much point to 1-rep maxing a squat if I have no intention of ever competing?

Anthony
12-29-2003, 05:42 AM
Heavy squatting without equipment is fine if your form is good. If you find yourself doing a good morning at the bottom of a rep you need to work on your lower back and abs. As for doing a 1RM with no plans of competing, it's nice to know, isn't it? If your goal is size, I don't think 1RM are important. But if your goal is strength whether you compete or not, I think they are.

a-rod
01-22-2004, 08:50 PM
Hey , nice avatar anthony .....