Ephedra ban

[shootermcgavin7]

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has decided to ban the herbal weight-loss supplement ephedra from the marketplace because of concerns about its effects on health, government officials said Tuesday. Health and Human Services (news - web sites) Secretary Tommy Thompson and Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) chief Mark McClellan were to announce the ban at a midday news conference, the officials said, speaking only on condition of anonymity.


The ban is likely to be met with litigation from manufacturers who dispute the agency's assertion that ephedra, which was blamed in the death of a professional baseball player's death earlier this year, is a health risk.


The government ban, one of the first involving a dietary supplement, comes after Thompson this summer urged Congress to rewrite a law that rolled back dietary-supplement regulations and to require manufacturers to acknowledge potential side effects.


Ephedra has been linked to as many as 100 deaths, officials have said. And Congress gathered testimony from families of people who are believed to have died from its side effects. Among those who testified were the parents of Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler, who died during spring training last February while trying to lose weight. Toxicology tests showed ephedra in his system.


Executives of several companies that make ephedra-based products have said that studies have proven that they are safe when used properly.


"Anyone who has read our label knows that we go to great lengths to inform our customers about the proper use of our products," said Russell Schreck, chief executive officer of San Diego-based nutritional supplement-maker Metabolife International. "We make it quite clear on our label that the ephedra products are not to be sold or used by minors and that customers with certain pre-existing medical conditions should 'consult a physician before product use'."


But several scientists said that it was impossible to prove whether ephedra was safe because studies screen out participants who have health problems — the people most likely to be hurt by the product.


The General Accounting Office (news - web sites), Congress' investigative arm, looked into the issue and found many people who reported problems had followed the label's instructions.


The FDA had proposed warning labels and dosage limits for dietary supplements with ephedra back in 1997, but then withdrew the proposal after complaints from the industry and members of Congress.




In 2001, the National Football League banned its players from using ephedra as a dietary supplement. >>>

Anyone else going out to stock up before this is announced this afternoon?

[Paul Stagg]

If you use ephedra products, stock up.

I hope Chris has lots of Thermocin.

[the doc]

thermocin does not contain ephedra

[the doc]

notice the ban was on ephedra (an herbal extract containing ephedrine alkaloids) only. there are other herbal sources of ephedrine

[Tryska]

k - i was jsut gonna ask for clarification - it is ephedra and ma huang, right...not ephedrine HCL?

[Paul Stagg]

Well then.

That's just stupid.

[the doc]

paul, would you expect anything better from our government?

[Paul Stagg]

I would think they could figure out that ephedrine is the substance they want to ban, not just ephedra.

But, then, they can't figure out lots of stuff, I guess.

Number of troops in Iraq: 130,000.

Number of tropps in Afghanistan/Pakistan: 10,000.

Area of Afghanistan: 251,825 square miles.

Area of Iraq: 171,599 square miles.

Number of Americans killed by Osama bin Laden: 3,000+

Number of Americans killed by Saddam Hussein: About 500, if you include the U.S. troops invading his country.

[Tryska]

Well then.

That's just stupid.


exactly what i'm counting on.


i jsut found a whole new gas station with loads of 90tab ephedrine 2-way bottles for 4.99 a pop.

[the doc]

yeah paul I know. not much makes sense anymore these days


tryska what is "2-way"?

[Tryska]

it's ephedrine hcl bound with guanifesin (the only way you can get it now). they bind it so meth labs can't extract the good stuff from truckdrivers any more.

[Berserker]

Are you saying the stuff you buy at the gas station will not be effected? I think it has ephidrine hcl? Confuseing. If its not banned whats the point in banning ephedra, this is just the start.

[the doc]

ahhh well you'll have some nice loose mucous to go with your buzz now...lol

[Tryska]

apparently not berserker.

but then again, that's stuff's not considered a "dietary supplement". it's considered "over the counter medication". makes you wonder what the real motiviation is, with this new statute.

[IceRgrrl]

I just stocked up last week in Wisconsin on bottles of pure ephedrine. I may go out and get more after hearing the news of the ban on the news this morning.

It's silly...you can OD on Sudafed, but no one is banning that. My suspicions are that the ban is a publicity stunt to make it look like our government is "taking care of us," and it helps that no major pharma company has a patent or an interest in it. Myself, I'd rather have the government go after the WorldCom and Enron and mutual fund thieves, but that ain't gonna happen any time soon :rolleyes:

[Podium Kreatin]

this is ******ed, asprin kills every year more than ephedra EVER did (~7000-10,000deaths/year, one child every 3 days, compared to ephedra's ~100 deaths total) but nobody's banning that! the only reason they ban ephedra is that it gives politicians an edge (just like everything they do) against opposing politicians since it is hyped so much in the news

[IceRgrrl]

I have more problems tolerating guafenison than I do ephedrine. I'm not allergic to anything, but I do have it down in my medical charts that I do not want any medication that includes guafenison. It seriously upsets my stomach and makes me feel out-of-phase with myself, for lack of a better description.

The liquor store in Wisconsin where I found the pure ephedrine sold it in three different formulations: pure ephedrine, ephedrine + guafenison, and some other one which I can't recall.

[Paul Stagg]

Actually, the ban is probably more tied to pharmacutical companies.

See, if OTC supplements are banned, you'll have to get your fat burners from your doctor via prescription (or, perhaps even via OTC drug). Either way, the supplement manufacturers won't make money, and the pharm companies will.

Just goes to show you... it never hurts to contribute to a politician.

[Paul Stagg]

From the FDA website:

The rule will conclude that dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids present an unreasonable risk to the public health and are adulterated and unacceptable under Section 402(f)(1)(A) of the FD&C Act.

[Tryska]

so specifically geared towards the alkaloids.

isn't that interesting.

[Saint Patrick]

this is ******ed, asprin kills every year more than ephedra EVER did (~7000-10,000deaths/year, one child every 3 days, compared to ephedra's ~100 deaths total) but nobody's banning that! the only reason they ban ephedra is that it gives politicians an edge (just like everything they do) against opposing politicians since it is hyped so much in the news


Exactly.

[the doc]

paul it looks like they are going after most products, but i cant tell yet what all would be effected yet until they publish the rule

[Saint Patrick]

so does this mean that it'll be illegal to have Ephedra (posession of an illegal substance)?

[Teufelhund]

I just got back from my local supplement store. They have shopping carts full of the stuff that they are taking off of the shelves to fill online orders. There appears to be a full blown "ephedra rush" happening. 1st time I've gone in there and seen more than 1 or 2 other people.

[Gyno Rhino]

Stagg is right.

This is a play by the pharms.

They'll end up raking in the cash.

[Saint Patrick]

Wouldn't surprise me. At first I thought it might be bad for the economy if the supplement companies are hurting because of this. After all Ephedra is a BIG market.

But if the drug companies have a lock on it for prescriptions, then I suppose it won't make much of a difference economically. Except that we, the people, pay more for the product, and possibly higher insurance rates.

[Wu36]

I bought the gas station variety, but this still pisses me off quite a bit.

[shootermcgavin7]

Apparently the ban doesn't go into effect until around the end of February; but a lot of places are taking it off their shelves or selling out of it.

May take longer to sort through the court proceedings, but apparently the FDA has been building the case for over a year and already had their court arguments set up before they announced the ban.

[MixmasterNash]

Well, let me take the counter position:
The current system of "supplements" is a way to rake in the cash without paying for proper government controls.

Why shouldn't supplements be controlled by the FDA? AS far as I'm concerned, stuff like protein powder is most certainly a food product (you eat it) and stuff like ephedra and creatine is definately a drug product (you take it).

The current supplement industry is a libertarian's dream, where consumers choose which products are safe after a few people have found out the hard way which are bad. Sorry Paul, but I prefer the pro-active testing regime that doesn't rely on the market to determine product safety.

And don't give me the B.S. that government regulation will drive up prices or whatever -- we're already paying the arse for these products, for starters, and food and otc drugs aren't particularly expensive -- because the supplement companies currently claim to have done "rigorous" testing of their products, and they'll simply have to conform to FDA regulations.

Bring on the government regulation, suckas!

[shootermcgavin7]

The current supplement industry is a libertarian's dream, where consumers choose which products are safe after a few people have found out the hard way which are bad. Sorry Paul, but I prefer the pro-active testing regime that doesn't rely on the market to determine product safety.


Unfortunately, centuries of economic history say that markets DO work. As for being a libertarian's dream, what is the problem with that? If you know that it will kill you if you are stupid with it, and you use it, whatever happens is your own fault. The "government protecting you from yourself" crap shouldn't cut it.

Alcohol and tobacco are much more deadly than ephedrine. The government, however (federal, state, and local) rakes in tons of money from these industries.




And don't give me the B.S. that government regulation will drive up prices or whatever -- we're already paying the arse for these products, for starters, and food and otc drugs aren't particularly expensive -- because the supplement companies currently claim to have done "rigorous" testing of their products, and they'll simply have to conform to FDA regulations.

Bring on the government regulation, suckas!

Government regulation won't drive up prices; because it isn't being "regulated", it is being banned. There will be no product to sell, therefore, no price.

[Jane]

AAAAAAAAARGH.

This makes me so angry.

Ok, where do I stock up on ephedra? Everywhere I look I only see the 'ephedra-free' formulas, and I just want the pure stuff.

[Saint Patrick]

Unfortunately, centuries of economic history say that markets DO work. As for being a libertarian's dream, what is the problem with that? If you know that it will kill you if you are stupid with it, and you use it, whatever happens is your own fault. The "government protecting you from yourself" crap shouldn't cut it.

Alcohol and tobacco are much more deadly than ephedrine. The government, however (federal, state, and local) rakes in tons of money from these industries.


I totally agree 100%.

[Stray]

:withstupi

[heathj]

Thanks for the invite from general chat, doc ;)

The only reason I think they are going so hardcore on ephedrine/ephedra than any other drug, is because athletes take it and athletes have died from it. The people of America put athletes on some sort of pedastol and in a way, worship them, just like celebrities. Since athletes have taken it, and have died from it, we examine it much more closely.

Not sure how accurate, but from some reports and websites I have read, ephedrine/ephedra has caused 1/3 the amount of deaths in a decade of just aspirin alone, in 1993. Aspirin and Ibuprofen have also caused over 100 times more hospitilizations of ephedrine/ephedra.

Another report of an athlete besides Bechler from the Orioles, that I read about was about a cacasian male who was taking 60 capsules of ephedrine per day, and would also drink 2-10 cans of pop per day for more caffeine. Name of athlete is unknown. Report by Shannon C. Miller, M.D. in Psychosomatics, if you were wondering.

Steve Bechler also had a past of heatstroke, and since ephedrine speeds up blood pressure and heart rate, with a past of heatstroke he deserves to die if he was stupid enough to take this drug.

Anyway, I agree with most/all of you, in the fact that ephedrine should not be banned, but especially not ephedra.

[shootermcgavin7]

Should have a warning label:



"Do not take five times the recommended dose, chase it with 2 red bulls, then go to a 3 hour high school wrestling practice in a 100 degree room"

Maybe an age limit on the sale to keep 16 year olds from killing themselves from stupidity?

[SquareHead]

I for one sure am glad that we have the FDA to protect us. Whew now I cant buy ephedera that's good. God bless the land of the "free".

[Podium Kreatin]

does anyone know if this affects "ma huang" that they sell in chinatowns? if it includes that, i guess i'll be making an annual trip to mexico from now on...

[ericg]

So the ephedra that is sold as a dietary supplement is banned; so what about the bottles that are not labeled as a dietary supplement like the stuff people use to stay awake? Will we be able to get that in stores?

[Paul Stagg]

AAAAAAAAARGH.

This makes me so angry.

Ok, where do I stock up on ephedra? Everywhere I look I only see the 'ephedra-free' formulas, and I just want the pure stuff.

Thermocin has ephedrine in it.

You can also purchase ephedreine HCL in convenience stores and on the web. You can use that to make your own ECA (20mg ephedrine, 200mg caff, 81mg A). Omit the A if you wish.

[the doc]

glad to have you here heath :)

IMO, FDA should only be issuing advisories on these mixtures. LOL... i'll bet anything that we'll be seeing tinctures of muhuang sold "for research purposes only" from places like pumpnpose

[Stray]

They should make Ephedra cigarettes...that way no matter how many people die we could still buy them.

[ryan1117]

What does everyone think the over/under is on creatine being banned?

I think it is wrong they are banning it due to all the people who used it responsibly. However, the consolation comes with all the other morons that loaded up on that stuff expecting it to be a replacement for diet/exercise. I also hope people in this thread opposing the ban are consistent. I know a lot of people on here want to throw the book at people caught with marijuana.

[AllUp]

They should make Ephedra cigarettes...that way no matter how many people die we could still buy them.


ROFL, Good one. :P

[AllUp]

Stock up kiddies... supposedly about 60 days.
I'm gonna peep Vitamin Shoppe and Vitamin world and see if I can get HCL.Also probably will order some thermocin tonight.

Hell, I may even do like the peeps that got it banned in the first place by taking 8x the reccomended dosage and running 12 miles.. Then I'll be a real pro.(Chump that is..)

I hope that doesn't include drinks like Ripped Force.. And what will happen if it does include drinks? I can see it now, lol..There will be an Ephedra Taskforce that patrols gym's with flak jackets and chromed visors over military fatigues carrying fake rifles like in the sci-fi movies.. God forbid you have a drink containing ephedra. Alarms and red flashing lights will go off near your machine in the gym and the squad leader will be like: "10-97 in sector J-9 of the gym!"

I just came from here a little while ago and was gonna post.. apparently I was beaten to it by a long run. lol.>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107056,00.html

[Wu36]

They should make Ephedra cigarettes...that way no matter how many people die we could still buy them.
I don't know if I should laugh or be angry.

[KingJustin]

I don't take any fat burners or anything of the like (yet) and this still infuriates me. If you aren't sure how you will react upon eating something then don't put it down your throat. Even the creation of government agencies like the FDA make me really want to break something.

[MrWebb78]

so now everyone is automatically mad at pharm co.'s

then dont get a freakin prescription(why you would need one i dont know), and dont contribute.

[JuniorMint6669]

so does this mean that it'll be illegal to have Ephedra (posession of an illegal substance)?

[Panacea]

So this will or WILL NOT effect Thermocin?

[Panacea]

As for possession becoming a criminal offense, I dont think so. Criminal laws are updated every two years in most states. I guess that it COULD become illegal, but I do not think that it will be so because of the ban. It will require legislative action on the part of the state where you live.

[Panacea]

A check of the Atlargeforum here at BB shows that they expect this ban to effect thermocin.

[shootermcgavin7]

As for possession becoming a criminal offense, I dont think so. Criminal laws are updated every two years in most states. I guess that it COULD become illegal, but I do not think that it will be so because of the ban. It will require legislative action on the part of the state where you live.


Actually, this ruling runs parallel to the proposed US Congressional bill to ban ephedra and andro products which will be voted on early this year as well.

So if it is a federal law, it won't require individual state action.

[Panacea]

Well, I guess that possession could become a federal offense when the ban takes affect. But it will become one of those that is almost never enforced at a state or municipal. It will be like the mailbox law...it is a federal offense to mess with someone's mailbox. But in 99% of the cases, if you do $50 worth of damage to a mailbox, then you are charged with a misdemeanor vandalism case.

I am a police officer and I plan on stocking up on thermocin. I wouldnt worry about possession issues unless you are gonna have insanely huge amounts that would attract federal attention.

[Podium Kreatin]

as for possession; ex post facto. u do something before it is illegal, then they can't arrest you. for those gun nuts, you guys may have heard of "preban" and "postban" guns.

we'll have to see how the law exactly is written tho

[Panacea]

Preban and postban as far as guns may be a different issue. That concerned the manufacture of these "assault" weapons and magazines. So, as a result of the fact that the item was legal as long as it was manufactured before whatever the date was, all of the the gun companies ran shifts 24/7 until the date past. They made more guns and magazines in those couple of months than they had made in the last few years...

But, that is a whole other thread and forum... :ninja:

[andre00]

you can buy it online saveonsupplements.com until march 1st.
after that they said they are pulling it off the site and the can no longer sell.

[mercury]

I guess it one more thing that will appear on the black market.

Thank you Uncle Sam for saving us from ourselves. :rolleyes: