Illegal immigrant hits home

[Brawl]

It's funny that we've been talking about this topic lately .

We have a guy that got hurt on the job (smashed his hand ) . After he went to the doctor he applied for workmens comp. The company then found out it was a fraudulent social security number because he was an illegal alien . He was fired and now he is going to the supreme court for workers compensation . He says he is owed since he worked here and got hurt on the job .

If you are interested its in the Grand Rapids Press sunday the 25th .

[MrWebb78]

i hate to say it, but i agree he is entitled.

#1 he was hurt on the job

#2 they should have done a better backround check before hiring him.

[Brawl]

I also might agree . He was working and he was productive unlike millions of other lazy people .

They should give him a fine or something . Make him eat at taco bell .

[Saturday Fever]

Hrm. I agree he should get worker's comp. He's been working hard making the company money (assuming) and they should take care of him.

[DoubleGulp]

Did somebody say Taco Bell?

[Gyno Rhino]

I agree, he should get worker's comp. But let me also mention that worker's comp is frequently abused and scammed on. Therefore, I propose a solution.

Kill the immigrant and sell his organs. Give his family the money. No family? Then use it to kill more immigrants.

[Spiderman]

I agree, he should get worker's comp. But let me also mention that worker's comp is frequently abused and scammed on. Therefore, I propose a solution.

Kill the immigrant and sell his organs. Give his family the money. No family? Then use it to kill more immigrants.


LMAO!!

[Maki Riddington]

I don't think he should be compensated. He lied, now he must face the consequences. Man I'm a meany.

[Podium Kreatin]

i hate to say it, but i agree he is entitled.

#1 he was hurt on the job

#2 they should have done a better backround check before hiring him.

well, ideally, we can all see if ppl's ssn are fake or not. but, an illegal immigrant takes a risk when he comes into this country. legally, i dont' think he can win this case, b/c he's not a legal worker. but, imo, illegal immigrants fuel our economy, whether we like it or not (or deny it), so he shoudl have some way of getting hhelp

[nejar462]

I really don't think he should be paid though I feel sorry for him. He shouldn't have broken the laws.

[BCC]

I don't feel sorry for him. Neither does everclear. Fuk'em. Douche bag.

[Saturday Fever]

If he worked just as hard as any American, and got hurt, how can he not be entitled to compensation for a work-related injury?

I assume his job was filled because no other "american" could or would take the job. Brawl?

[PowerManDL]

Let's shoot him and take all his money.

[Saint Patrick]

I would have to say that he shouldn't get workers comp.

His entire employment was based on his fraudulently falsifying information.......

Or something.

[bill]

workers comp and use the money to deport .lol

[BigRedCat]

Rising Costs of Tolerating Illegal Aliens

Why Health Care Is So Costly*
While Americans without health insurance struggle with the problem of how to pay for medical care, many Mexicans don't have that problem. They just ride in a Mexican ambulance across the border to a hospital in Arizona, New Mexico, California or Texas, and get free medical treatment. The costs are currently paid by a combination of socking the taxpayers in those four border states plus inflating prices for patients who pay their own bills, insurance companies and Medicaid.

This ridiculous situation is caused by a combination of U.S. officials allowing Mexican cars to cross our border plus the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services treat anyone who shows up for care including illegal aliens. This unfunded mandate was legislated by a Congress that closed its eyes to the costs.

We are not just talking about Mexicans who may have had an accident close to the border. We are talking about Mexicans with serious health problems who are deliberately sent to the United States after Mexican hospitals discover they can't pay for services and have no insurance.

Senators John McCain and John Kyl have proposed a solution for this dilemma: lighten the tax burden on their own state while shifting it to U.S. taxpayers nationwide. How parochial! They introduced a bill to hit the U.S. taxpayers for $200 million for medical treatment of illegal aliens.

A study made by the U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition, an American lobbying group, found that U.S. hospitals in border states provide at least $200 million a year in uncompensated emergency care to illegal aliens. In the four border states, 77 hospitals now face a medical emergency.

Uncompensated care to illegal aliens in Arizona cost the Cochise County Health Department 30% of its annual budget, the Copper Queen Hospital in Bisbee $200,000 out of a net operating income of $300,000, the University Medical Center in Tucson $10 million, and the Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center in Tucson $1 million in only the first quarter of last year. The Southeast Arizona Medical Center in Douglas is on the verge of bankruptcy. Some emergency rooms and pre-natal units have closed because they can't afford to stay open.

Arizona hospitals have offered donated medical equipment and ambulances to Mexican medical facilities, but Mexican customs officials have not permitted much of it to enter Mexico. They apparently prefer to send their sick to U.S. hospitals rather than care for them in Mexico. Other costs of dumping Mexicans on U.S. hospitals include transporting the seriously ill by helicopter from small border hospitals to Tucson or Phoenix. This cost ranges from $7,000 to $20,000 a trip.

In San Antonio, University Health System officials have proposed a statewide quarter-cent sales tax to help hospitals pay for uninsured persons who show up at the door. During the last three years, Houston's Harris County Hospital District spent $330 million to treat and immunize illegal aliens, an amount estimated to be at least 20% of the indigent caseload.

In California, where the state budget crunch is forcing reductions in Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program, observers warn of an approaching catastrophe in the health-care system. Almost one in five Californians lacks health insurance, yet the law requires hospitals to continue to serve illegal aliens free.

These costs are especially onerous because hospitals are struggling with falling Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement rates and rising medical malpractice premiums, and most states are struggling with revenue shortfalls. Hospitals are often hit with providing follow-up care when an uninsured patient remains bedridden for months.

It's not just the border states. The Florida Hospital Association reported that illegal aliens amassed unpaid bills of $40.5 million last year. Uninsured illegal alien Saul Diaz, after an auto accident, spent a year in a Gwinnett Medical Center hospital, racking up an unpaid bill of $1 million. Another illegal alien repeatedly stabbed himself in the stomach, and it cost Gwinnett three months of care and $390,000 to restore him to health.

All this is in addition to the many illegal aliens who are injured in highway accidents when the trucks they are jammed into like sardines are driven recklessly by uninsured Mexican drivers trying to evade police. Such accidents have occurred as far away as Utah and Iowa.

U.S. taxpayers are also taken for chumps when food stamps are given to illegal aliens. Coming from countries that have no respect for a rule of law, they don't understand that selling food stamps is a crime. Food-stamp fraud among illegal aliens came to light in 1996 when Ohio authorities discovered that a Jordanian man and his uncle had deposited $24 million in purchased food stamps in the bank accounts associated with their chain of food and video stores. A ring of Somali asylum seekers netted $40,000 in food stamp fraud.

When are Americans going to wake up to the price we are paying because our government won't stop the invasion of illegal aliens?

[Budiak]

SF, you know that the only reason the immigrant had that job is because he jumped me in the parking lot and stole it from me.

[phreak]

When are Americans going to wake up to the price we are paying because our government won't stop the invasion of illegal aliens?
If you can force all unemployed Americans to, e.g, pick produce for less than minimum wage, that might work.

[millertime]

Steven Lynch sums it up best....

If I could be a superhero, I'd be immigration dude
I'd send all the foreigners back to their homes for eating up all of our food
And taking all our welfare and best jobs to boot
Like landscaping, dishwashing, picking our fruit
I'd pass alot of laws to get rid of their brood, 'cause I'd be immigration dude.

[Tryska]

hmm...good opportunity to see exactly how serious dubya is about amnesty and whatnot.

[millertime]

I have a feeling, Bush is only pushing the temp visa bill to win over the latino vote. Bush knows it will never get through the house.

[Tryska]

of course he is.


what i can't figure out is if illegals can't even get worker's comp, how the heck are they gonna get out and vote? ;)

[millertime]

Jose Dayworker may not be able to vote but his kids born in this country can.

Illegal immigrant has become a huge issue in NY. It has erupted into violence between residents and illegals on many accounts.

[Tryska]

that was sarcasm punkin.

[Max-Mex]

I don't think he should be compensated. He lied, now he must face the consequences. Man I'm a meany.

I agree with this. Any illegal alien expecting the perks of being a citizens is high on something, IMO.

[Saturday Fever]

Budiak, damn those job stealing immigrants!

Look, the company knew he was illegal. To believe otherwise is being naive. I'm guessing the guy didn't speak a lick of english and the name on the social security card was probably "Lucas Bernstein".

That said, they made money from his labor. He was hurt making them money. Where he has citizinship shouldn't matter. Pay the guy.

[Hercules]

what has this country come to? we take better care of illegal immigrants than we do our own working poor who have no insurance and no money to pay for healthcare. why don't we stop giving illegals(criminals) free healthcare, food, housing, education and protection and shift that to the millions who are low income earners(less than 18K a year is poverty) who do work and pay taxes. it's these people who are left out in the cold when they turn to their government for help only to be denied because they are legal taxpaying citizens who speak english. this is getting very sickening. here's the solution, take a few thousand, err million low wage earners, arm them with hunting rifles and let them sniper all illegals who try and cross the border. once word gets out our border is armed and secure, very few illegals will get in to this country. we can do the same on the canadian border to keep those pesky canuks out too, lol. :)

[cjb]

The only money he should be given is the fare for a bus ticket back across the border. If he can't get home by bus, pay for his plane ticket.

As for the douche bag that was employing him (because you know damn well he knew the guy was illegal), present him with a nice hefty fine and audit the hell out of his taxes for the next 5 years.

[MixmasterNash]

We're all complicit in the use of illegal, low wage workers and to think otherwise is quite naive.

Ever shopped at Wal-Mart? You're in part responsible for illegals, because those low prices are due to under paying workers, particularly the illegals that clean every store in the country.

Ever bought a house? Guess who probably worked on it's construction.

Ever eaten in a restaraunt? Guess who is washing the dishes.

Guess who is picking the crops, cleaning hotel rooms, and watching your kids.

Illegal immigrants. They just want to work their asses off, to make some money and give their family a better life. Sure there are bad ones commiting real crimes, but it's doubtful that it's more than the criminal percentage of legal aliens or citzens. What I hear here are some racist biggots who are unwilling to accept that their own cheap-assed-ness is responsible for the very illegal immigrants they complain about.

[Saturday Fever]

:withstupid:

[Budiak]

Its not that Americans wont do those jobs. Its that Americans have been told that they dont need to do them because they have a comfy safety net called welfare they can fall into, so why the **** would they pick fruit?

That and that minimum wage is getting pretty ****ing high. Years ago the minimum wage was what, 2,3 bucks an hour? Lots of teenage American kids would go pick fruit at orchards or work other ****ty jobs during pickin' season during the summer because it was money in their pocket. Thats a period. Now its illegal to pay someone the amount that the company can afford to pay such laborers, so the American not only won't do it, but he's bound by the law NOT to do it! So the companies hire illegals.

Grocery baggers make like 9 bucks minimum in CA because of the union. GROCERY BAGGERS. They put food in a bag so your lazy ass doesnt have to. Nine dollars an hour. Am I evil for thinking that they dont deserve that much money? What if they started hiring illegals to bag groceries for 3 an hour under the nametag 'Javier Weinstein'?

[MrWebb78]

Budiak, so you have a choice.

continue shopping at Albertsons, Safeway, or Raleys and support union jobs and american workers, even if some of us are ridiculously overpaid. or shop WalMart and support illegal immigrants.

as a Teamster myself, I tend to shop Raleys.

[MrWebb78]

what has this country come to? we take better care of illegal immigrants than we do our own working poor who have no insurance and no money to pay for healthcare. why don't we stop giving illegals(criminals) free healthcare, food, housing, education and protection and shift that to the millions who are low income earners(less than 18K a year is poverty) who do work and pay taxes. it's these people who are left out in the cold when they turn to their government for help only to be denied because they are legal taxpaying citizens who speak english. this is getting very sickening. here's the solution, take a few thousand, err million low wage earners, arm them with hunting rifles and let them sniper all illegals who try and cross the border. once word gets out our border is armed and secure, very few illegals will get in to this country. we can do the same on the canadian border to keep those pesky canuks out too, lol. :)


dont confuse workers compensation with free healthcare.

also, if this guy was on the payroll and had a fake social sexurity # etc, then he was probably paying taxes.

[Budiak]

I shop at WinCo and Costco. No baggers. Though...I dont know Costco's immie hiring policy. I at least attempt to practice what I preach.

If it turns out Costco hires illegals, well then I'll have to find another place where which I can buy a kayak, 30lbs chicken breasts, and a gallon of peanut butter, and popular movies in one trip.

[MrWebb78]

gallon of PB?? i cant find it less than a 55 gallon drum.

as far as i know Costco is a good "inbetween" pay their employees decent, and hire legitimate employees.

i shop there on occasion as well. for when i need film developed, a new tv/dvd combo, 5 lbs of tuna, and 22 qts of shampoo.

[rpffly]

Or a $6500 watch. :scratch:

Just in case any of you high rollers were interested.

[MrWebb78]

i hate watches, they irritate my wrist.

[Maki Riddington]

What I hear here are some racist biggots who are unwilling to accept that their own cheap-assed-ness is responsible for the very illegal immigrants they complain about.

*** How so, he lied about his status thus breaking the law. So now that entitles him to something? I'm not even thinking about the fact he's an immigrant.

[Maki Riddington]

i hate watches, they irritate my wrist.

*** You irritate me. :evillaugh

[Saturday Fever]

You know what' really burns me?
























matches.

[Max-Mex]

Back the the orignal post, the guy came over in 1989 and his accident was in 1998. 9 years as an illegal and he didn't even bother to get residency or citizenship. This pisses me off more than anything. My parents came over illegally and ever since they stepped on Amercian soil, one of their first priorities was to get legal status and then citizenship. Both of the are not US citizens and damn proud of it.

This is more geared toward Mexicans but I just don't understand the logic. I've known people who came in to the US in 89 and are either legal or citizens. I think some of them are just goddam lazy. It's better for them in the long run and I just don't get how they can't see this.

I feel sorry for the guy but he doesn't deserve it (wokers comp), especially since he had more than enough time to get legal status and/or citizenship.

[Brawl]

OK sorry I was gone for a few days on this I'm so sick of hearing about it here in town .

The guy came here like Mex said , he got hurt almost ten years after coming here and now he wants , are you ready ? $70,000 in back workmens comp . He has another job he's been working at for a while but he still wants the workers comp .

[MrWebb78]

workers comp law says if you can work and priovide income, then you are not entitled to workers compensation benefits any longer. so if he can work, then he shouldnt get squat.

[MixmasterNash]

[QUOTE=Maki Riddington]*** How so, he lied about his status thus breaking the law. So now that entitles him to something? I'm not even thinking about the fact he's an immigrant.[/QUOTE

Damn straight he's entitled to workman's comp. He was working, he was contributing to our economy, and he wasn't commiting a serious crime. It's the MORAL and ECONOMIC thing to do.

It's completely hypocritical for anyone who demands low prices or uses any services such as gardening or eating in a restaurant to complain about illegal immigrants. You only excuse is if you tell me that you want to pay significantly higher prices for everything rather than allow illegals in.

[Max-Mex]

I still don't get it, he works hard at every job he has and yet he doesn't do the one thing that would have solved the whole problem. The moral thing for him to do was to at least get residency. Again, it's this Mexican mentality (that's how I see it anyway) that got him in this position.

It's very possible he could lose his case and what now? He could get his sorry ass and his whole family deported! All because he didn't try to get his green card. Jebus help that man!

[BigRedCat]

All illegals are by default criminals. How about this stat which was issued a few days ago-
According to the Border Patrol illegal immigration has INCREASED 8 fold since Bush announced his plan.
For those of you that don't have your heads up your liberal asses, go here and support the cause:
http://www.numbersusa.com
Oh and by the way, 25% of the CA prison population is illegals. Oh and another tidbit of info, some 80,000 illegals with felony charges were released this year and no agency has a clue where they are. The feds won't hold them and the local cops are not allowed to. INS turns them away as well. So now we have thousands of criminals running around with various fake ID's. How is that for "Homeland Defence"?!?!

[Budiak]

It's completely hypocritical for anyone who demands low prices or uses any services such as gardening or eating in a restaurant to complain about illegal immigrants.

Go to Chico, CA. There are white kids working every position a Mongolian BBQ. I was Amazed, myself.

As for mexican fruit pickers...well, I say we should invent a machine to pick fruit so we dont have to be able to pay those people ANYTHING. Stick it to 'em!

[BigRedCat]

Hey where there are no mexicans the lawns get cut and the beds get made just fine by Americans. That argument about oh no one else wants those jobs is BS! The reason no one wants those jobs is because the cheap labor has driven the wages so low. Plenty of people make a fine living doing construction and mowing laws in places the illegals have not yet invaded. That is what this is, an invasion.

[Budiak]

The idea that construction workers are mostly illegals is simply idiotic. Construction workers make really good ****ing money, and its really a pretty good living that Americans are quite willing to work for. I walk by a construction site at school and its not packed with ponchos, if you catch my meaning.

[Maki Riddington]

Damn straight he's entitled to workman's comp. He was working, he was contributing to our economy, and he wasn't commiting a serious crime. It's the MORAL and ECONOMIC thing to do.

It's completely hypocritical for anyone who demands low prices or uses any services such as gardening or eating in a restaurant to complain about illegal immigrants. You only excuse is if you tell me that you want to pay significantly higher prices for everything rather than allow illegals in.

*** None the less it was a crime. You can not argue that, and because of the crime regardless of the severity, it's still punishable. What his punishment should be I don't know. However, according to what is being said, I don't think imo that he is entitled to the money he feels is owed to him.

[Maki Riddington]

I'm deeply offended that you used the word "poncho."

[Budiak]

Excellent.

[Maki Riddington]

lol.

[BigRedCat]

Depends where you live. There are plenty of mexican construction workers in California,Nevada,New Mexico and Arizona.

[Budiak]

I live in CA, ese. The only 'company' that I know of that hires an ishload of mexicans in CA is Caltrans, the STATE-run roadway construction agency. Most private companies dont hire them at nearly the same rate. If they gotta pay a guy 18 an hour to cut cement, they're going to hire the guy who won't get deported at random. Cuz damn it, that concrete's gotta get cut whether you like it or not!
I mean if you do your hiring from a streetcorner in West Sacramento, you pretty much know who you're hiring. Hell. I love the idea of day laborers. Ever read Grapes of Wrath? I did. Well, I didnt finish it, but I got the jist of it.

*spits

[Gyno Rhino]

Did he commit a crime? Yes.

Are we going to change the way things are done in this country by not giving this poor shmuck his due? No.

Did his COMPANY commit a crime? Yes.

If we want to change things, the COMPANY has to be put up for it. Cost the company a boatload and see if they hire an illegal alien again. If they do, put em up again.

[Tryska]

All illegals are by default criminals. How about this stat which was issued a few days ago-
According to the Border Patrol illegal immigration has INCREASED 8 fold since Bush announced his plan.
For those of you that don't have your heads up your liberal asses, go here and support the cause:
http://www.numbersusa.com


and yet you plan to vote for him again?

talk about a head up an ass. :rolleyes:

[Tryska]

Did his COMPANY commit a crime? Yes.

If we want to change things, the COMPANY has to be put up for it. Cost the company a boatload and see if they hire an illegal alien again. If they do, put em up again.


word.

[BigRedCat]

Yes I plan to vote for him again because the alternative is France-loving liberal asshat pantywaists. How do you think Dean would handle terrorism? How about Kerry? I can be assured they would be pro-illegals so that wouldn't be any differant than Bush. If there was a hawkish,conservative,independant candidate that had a chance of beating Bush I would consider voting for him/her. Savage for president!!

[Saturday Fever]

Wow. You take the cake. You're a total tool.

[Max-Mex]

nah...redneck. He just doesn't know it yet.

[BigRedCat]

I am a redneck because I oppose amnesty for criminals? I guess me and the other 70% of the US population are all rednecks.

[Saturday Fever]

You have facts to back your claim of 70%? I think not.

[BigRedCat]

Nice try- oops I was a little off, its 85%:

http://www.americanpatrol.com/POLLS/ToughIA-Approach030424USA.html
For Immediate Release: April 22, 2003
Americans Favor Tough Approach to Illegal Immigration

(Washington, DC; 4/22/03) -- A new national opinion poll finds that Americans believe it is necessary to take a hard line against those who break U.S. immigration laws. While polls have confirmed for years that Americans want significant reductions in legal immigration levels, and vigorous enforcement of laws against illegal immigration, the RoperASW March poll finds that Americans are willing to hold illegal immigrants personally accountable for their actions, and to penalize those who do not obey immigration laws. On current legal immigration:

More than three in four Americans want to see overall immigration levels reduced from the current one million per year;
Two-thirds supporting fewer than 300,000 immigrants per year;

The poll, conducted by RoperASW on behalf of Negative Population Growth, and released by the United To Secure America coalition (www.secureamerica.info), found that illegal immigration is seen as a "serious problem" by 85 percent of American adults. These numbers are consistent with nearly all opinion polls conducted on these issues. However, in addition to stepped-up law enforcement, an overwhelming majority of Americans believe that it is necessary to impose tough penalties, including incarceration, on illegal aliens.

In addition to deportation, 83 percent of respondents also favored "mandatory detention and forfeiture of property" for people who are found to be living here illegally. Seventy percent said they would also support mandatory prison sentences for immigration law violations, in addition to property forfeiture and deportation.

The poll also found support among the American public for cooperation between state and local entities and the federal government in pursuit of meaningful immigration enforcment. The poll found:


88 percent support a law requiring state and local government agencies to notify the INS and local law enforcement when they determine "a person is here illegally, or has presented a false identification document."
85 percent support a law requiring local law enforcement and government agencies to "apprehend and turn over illegal immigrants" they encounter.

The public also expresses concern about the proliferation of false documents and the ease by which illegal aliens, and would-be terrorists, can obtain identification documents. A large majority agree that Congress should pass laws requiring a document verification check with federal authorities when seeking the following services or procedures:

Checking an applicants' eligibility to legally work in the U.S. (79% agree)
Applying for a driver's license (82% agree)
Opening a bank account (75% agree)
Enrolling in school or college for oneself or a child (73% agree)

The entire poll can be found online at www.secureamerica.info.For more information, or comments, please contact Dan Stein,United to Secure America Coalition @ 202-328- 7004; Don Mann,Negative Population Growth @ 954-425-7946 or Geoff Feinberg,RoperASW@ 212-455-4902.



These findings are drawn from a nationally representative survey of 1,012 American adults (18+) conducted by RoperASW on behalf of Negative Population Growth. All interviews were conducted by telephone from March 7-9, 2003. The maximum margin of error at a 95% confidence level is within +/-3 percentage points for the total sample of 1.012 respondents. Completed interviews were weighted by age, sex, income, and region to ensure reliable and accurate representation of the target population.

[Saturday Fever]

HAHA.

OK, a little help for you, since you desperately need it. I'll make an analogy here, so try to keep up.

If I was trying to argue pro-Israel, do you think a poll run by the Israel Defense Ministry would be accurate?

Of course not. So why did you quote a redneck site like that to try to back your argument? Nice try. You fail.

Hell man, that's worse than redneck. That's like wannabe government overturning rednecks. I can't believe you tried to rebuke being a tool by posting THAT.

[MrWebb78]

i never took that poll, so that is not truely representative of what ALL of the american people think.

i wasnt aware that 1012 was the US population either.

[Saturday Fever]

Roughly 1000 racist rednecks did take the poll. And they obviously reflect ALL of America.

[BigRedCat]

You are a total moron. Go here:
http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/publicop.html
Its gonna be hard for you to say that is a "racist redneck" website.
Oh and I suppose everyone in California is a redneck racist as well since they voted against the illegal immigrant liscence bill? Laughable. You have made a fool of yourself.

[Gyno Rhino]

BigRedCat, I'm wondering something here..

You constantly blast "liberals" and talk about "liberals ignore the facts", blah blah blah.

I agree, for the most part. I feel that liberals don't have their head on straight.

But do you think that you're a "conservative"? I'm willing to bet that your opinions ARE conservative, but your voting IS NOT. If you're a die-hard conservative, WHY ON EARTH are you going to vote to re-elect a man that has done NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING conservative yet? He has ENLARGED the government and TAKEN AWAY YOUR LIBERTIES. Is that conservative?

[Max-Mex]

Redneck and doesnt now it. Thanks for pointing out the obvious in his poll results SF. Beat me to it.

Look BigRedNeck...errr RedCat, I understand that illegal immigration is something very serious in this country, especially now after Sept 11. I agree we should try to figure out a way to watch the borders more carefully, but it's not possible, nor will it ever be. This country is too large. Illegal aliens created this country and lots of business depend on them (yes this is wrong but not a whole lot can be done about it). We could go on and on about illegals taking jobs from Americans and how illegals place a huge burden on local and national budgets. What's the point? Sure you have a right to voice your opinion, but it still doesn't make them go away.

Give the illegals at least some credit for trying to get a better life for their families. It's not their fault they were born mexican (not that I'm saying cause being a mexican is da bomb). My only issue that I have with illegals is how they quite a few refuse to gain any legal status or even citizenship.

Also, your comment about illegals and them being criminals just cracks me up. Just one thing, Timothy McVeigh was not a mexican. Mexicans could care less about trying to blow **** up. They just want a job.

[BigRedCat]

OK first of all, I have not at all mentioned anything derogatory regarding Mexicans themselves- they aren't the only one's coming across the border. I dont blame them for wanting to come here. That is common sense. However, if you want to disregard the evidence regarding criminal illegals go right ahead. How do you explain this:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040126-120103-7792r.htm

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html

Also you clearly did NOT check out numbersusa and their FACTS. Had you checked it out you would have seen they are CLEARLY not anti-Mexican in any way. As for if I vote conservative, yes I do. As I have explained and most conservatives will agree -Bush is the only logical choice when faced with the current crop of candidates. I like Lieberman but he has no chance at winning. You don't decide on a candidate over one issue anyway. Bush deposed Saddam and he hasn't done anything conservative? Are you serious? Quadaffi gives up his WMD as a DIRECT result of the war and Bush has not done anything conservative?
Timothy McVeigh? What does he have to do with anything?? How about all the 9/11 terrorists? They were almost all illegals as well, so what is your point? You prefer to label any conservative a "radical racist right-winger", its pathetic amd immature.

One of my best friends is Mexican and is personally insulted that illegals come here and get all the benefits they do when his family came here LEGALLY and worked to have what they have. Is he a racist?
Here is an article from the LA Times(and we know how "right wing" they are):

'Sanctuary' Laws Stand in Justice's Way
By Heather Mac Donald, Heather Mac Donald is the author of "Are Cops Racist?" (Ivan R. Dee, 2003) and a contributing editor to the Manhattan Institute's City Journal, from whose Winter 2004 issue this is adapted.




Some of the most dangerous thugs preying on immigrant communities in Los Angeles are in this country illegally. Yet the Los Angeles Police Department cannot use the most obvious tool to apprehend them: their immigration status.

Dozens of gang members from Mara Salvatrucha, a ruthless Salvadoran prison gang, for example, have sneaked back into town after having been deported for such crimes as murder, assault with a deadly weapon and drug trafficking. Police officers know who they are and know that their mere presence in the country after deportation is a felony. Yet if an LAPD officer arrests an illegal gangbanger for felonious reentry, it is the officer who will be treated as a criminal for violating an LAPD rule.

That rule, Special Order 40, prohibits officers from questioning or apprehending someone only for an immigration violation or from notifying the immigration service (now known as Immigration and Customs Enforcement) about an illegal alien. Only if the person has been booked for a nonimmigration felony or multiple misdemeanors may officers even inquire about his immigration status.

Such "sanctuary" rules, replicated in cities with a high number of immigrants, are a testament to the political power of immigrant lobbies. "We can't even talk about" illegal alien crime, a frustrated LAPD captain said. "People are afraid of a backlash from Hispanics."

Police commanders may not want to discuss the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling: 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide in Los Angeles (which total more than 1,200) are for illegal aliens, according to officers. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (which total 17,000) are for illegal aliens. The leadership of the Columbia Li'l Cycos gang, which has used murder and racketeering to control the drug market around MacArthur Park, was about 60% illegal aliens in 2002, says a former assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted them in 2002.

Good luck finding any reference to such facts in "official" crime analysis. The LAPD and the Los Angeles city attorney recently obtained a preliminary injunction against drug trafficking in Hollywood. The injunction targets the 18th Street gang and, as the press release puts it, "non-gang members" who sell drugs in Hollywood on behalf of the gang.

Those nongang members are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled in by the gang. Cops and prosecutors say that they know the immigration status of these nongang "Hollywood dealers," as the city attorney calls them, but the gang injunction is silent on that aspect. If an officer were to arrest a dealer for his immigration status, or even notify immigration authorities, he would face discipline for violation of Special Order 40.

Likewise, although LAPD officers recognize previously deported gang members all the time, they can't touch a deported felon unless he has given them some other reason to stop him. Even then, an officer can arrest him only for the offense not related to immigration. Yet a deported gangbanger who reenters the country is already committing a federal felony — punishable by up to 20 years.

The city's ban on enforcing immigration crimes puts the community at risk by stripping the police of what may be their only immediate tool to remove a criminal from circulation. Trying to build a case for homicide, say, against an illegal alien gang member is often futile because witnesses fear retaliation. Enforcing an immigration crime would allow the cops to lock up the murderer right now, without putting a witness at risk.

The department's top brass brush off such concerns. No big deal if you see deported gangbangers back on the streets, they say. Just put them under surveillance for "real" crimes and arrest them for those. But surveillance is manpower-intensive. Where there is an immediate ground for arresting a violent felon, it is absurd to demand that the understaffed LAPD ignore it.

The stated reason for sanctuary policies is to encourage crime victims and witnesses who are illegal aliens to cooperate with the police without fear of deportation. This theory has never been tested. In any case, the official rationale could be honored by limiting police use of immigration laws to some subset of violators: say, deported felons whose immigration status police know.

The biggest myth about sanctuary laws is that they are immigrant-friendly. To the contrary: They leave law-abiding immigrants vulnerable to violence. Nor will it do to say that immigration enforcement is solely a federal responsibility. When it comes to fighting terrorism, the LAPD understands that it cannot rely on the feds alone to protect Los Angeles. Similarly, the department should not wait for a few of the 2,000-odd immigration agents, stretched to the breaking point nationwide, to show up and apprehend felons who are terrorizing neighborhoods.

[MixmasterNash]

Whoa. Hell is freezing over! Gyno and max-max are liberal pantywaists! Go back to France you two!

[BigRedCat]

Great retort. Gyno agreed that liberals don't look at the facts and you have proven him right. As I have said before, don't mistake me for a Bush lover. Obviously I disagree with his domestic policy but I agree with his foreign policy. Twist things however you wish but facts are facts. I know an LAPD officer who would love to debate you about how "peaceable" illegal immigrants are. Do any of you happen to remember the cop that was shot dead by an illegal not to long ago in Oceanside? Guess that doesn't make national news.
Get your head out of the sand. This isn't a race debate, don't try to make it into one. Not all illegals are violent but they are by default criminals- that is why they are called "illegal". Oh wait, its "undocumented immigrant" for your liberal types.

Who are you all voting for if not Bush??

[Budiak]

This guy sure knows a lot of people.

[ChrisH]

http://maddox.xmission.com/immigrant.gif
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart






:D

[Max-Mex]

Lol!

[Tryska]

Yes I plan to vote for him again because the alternative is France-loving liberal asshat pantywaists. How do you think Dean would handle terrorism? How about Kerry? I can be assured they would be pro-illegals so that wouldn't be any differant than Bush. If there was a hawkish,conservative,independant candidate that had a chance of beating Bush I would consider voting for him/her. Savage for president!!

hmmm....you might want to get your facts straight on the "france-loving liberal asshat pantywaists" before assuming you know what they believe in. since assuming makes an "ass" out of "u". i could care less about dean, however i willing to bet that kerry will handle terrorism a lot better than bush can. without taking our civil liberties away in the process.

as well, he is not "pro-illegal". he actually prefers tighter border control. you might wanna check the facts. feel free to follow the link in my sig. or stfu. that choice is yours, really.

[Gyno Rhino]

As I have explained and most conservatives will agree -Bush is the only logical choice when faced with the current crop of candidates. I like Lieberman but he has no chance at winning. You don't decide on a candidate over one issue anyway. Bush deposed Saddam and he hasn't done anything conservative? Are you serious? Quadaffi gives up his WMD as a DIRECT result of the war and Bush has not done anything conservative?

I agree that getting that maniac to hand over some weaponry is a good thing - but look at what it has cost us. I hope you're familiar with the Patriot Acts, - just in case you ever decide to call a town meeting to discuss government intrusion and you get detained and executed without warrant, trial, or cause.

[Saturday Fever]

You are a total moron. Go here:
http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/publicop.html
Its gonna be hard for you to say that is a "racist redneck" website.
Oh and I suppose everyone in California is a redneck racist as well since they voted against the illegal immigrant liscence bill? Laughable. You have made a fool of yourself.

Wait. That site says that 84% of Californians that voted during the recall feel illegal immigration has to stop. Now I might be wrong here (and we all know I'm not) but I voted during the recall and I never saw anything on the ballot asking my opinion on illegal immigration. Come to think of it, there weren't even people outside the polls ASKING my opinion. So where does this 84% come from? And I don't mean to burst your bubble, but everyone in California didn't vote against the illegal immigrant license bill. Only 68% did. And if they're anything like you, then yes they were all rednecks. :D

[DoubleGulp]

SF has turned into Phil Jackson! The end is near!

*hides his cowbell*

[Saturday Fever]

That just gave me an idea.

[Budiak]

Total idea.