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View Full Version : Chicken not a complete source of protein???



Behemoth
02-01-2004, 10:26 AM
I just noticed that on the bag of chicken breasts I have that under protein it says "not a signifigant source of protein". I thought chicken was complete...? Regardless, it's still a good source of protein and I'll continue to use it, I'm just wondering for curiosity sake.

Severed Ties
02-01-2004, 10:33 AM
Ignore it, someone in label design obviously needs to be shot.

ST

Jasonl
02-01-2004, 12:51 PM
Well if it was McDonald's chicken aka sawdust, then I could see how it would not be a complete source, but othat than that, chicken is one of the best and fav. sources of protien around here.

defcon
02-01-2004, 01:22 PM
* scratches label on chicken box *
.....
* steals sum chicken *
.....
* give the fixed label and box of chicken back to Behemoth *

Livin Truth
02-01-2004, 01:38 PM
lol :withstupi ..LT

Behemoth
02-01-2004, 02:31 PM
* scratches label on chicken box *
.....
* steals sum chicken *
.....
* give the fixed label and box of chicken back to Behemoth *

:thumbup:

Lonewolf
02-02-2004, 12:54 AM
eggs are the only *complete* protein that I know of, chicken is like 65% or somewhere around there

prof
02-02-2004, 03:39 AM
so chicken and eggs for tea then

hemants
02-02-2004, 08:37 AM
Complete protein is a misnomer.

All proteins contain all 8 essential amino acids. It's only a matter of ratio's.

Essential amino acid requirements amount to 6g of protein per day. So if you're consuming 150g then obviously there's some room for differing ratios.

JTyrell710
02-02-2004, 08:53 AM
ALL RATIOS MUST BE PERFECT! (thats why i eat people)

Saint Patrick
02-02-2004, 12:53 PM
Complete protein is a misnomer.

All proteins contain all 8 essential amino acids. It's only a matter of ratio's.

Essential amino acid requirements amount to 6g of protein per day. So if you're consuming 150g then obviously there's some room for differing ratios.

:withstupi

defcon
02-02-2004, 03:44 PM
Saint Patrick, when are you ever not "with stupid"???

when he's with sumone that is smart.. we need a "im with genius" sign :| :P

Saint Patrick
02-02-2004, 04:48 PM
Saint Patrick, when are you ever not "with stupid"???

When I don't agree w/ someone.

chris mason
02-02-2004, 04:55 PM
That label belongs on the Jay Leno show.

raniali
02-02-2004, 05:15 PM
Complete protein is a misnomer.

All proteins contain all 8 essential amino acids. It's only a matter of ratio's.




that is not exactly true. all ANIMAL proteins contain the essentials,but not all PLANT sources (soy, beans, peanuts, etc.)

aka23
02-02-2004, 06:24 PM
that is not exactly true. all ANIMAL proteins contain the essentials,but not all PLANT sources (soy, beans, peanuts, etc.)

Nearly all significant sources of protein contain all 8-10 essential amino acids in varying amounts. This includes both animal and plant sources. More detailed information about the amino acid content of these founds can be found at www.nutritiondata.com . The only foods that I am aware of that contain significant amounts of protein and lack an essential amino acid are gelatin/collagen based products, such as some types of "hydrolyzed protein." Such foods have a BV and PDCAAS of 0 since they lack tryptophan. In contrast peanuts score ~60, beans score ~85, soy scores ~110, and chicken scores ~110.

Holto
02-02-2004, 09:02 PM
it's amazing how many things I have un-learned here

the doc
02-02-2004, 09:02 PM
whilst what aka said is techically correct, imo this is not useful for those of us in BBing circles.


as i remember there are ~20 AAs which are, although not all essential, still required for optimum levels of protein synthesis. Human and other higher order animals are not very efficient in synthesis of AAs and thus there are essential AAs which CANNOT be synthesized in the body and therefore must be consumed or you cannot live. However, this is a BBing site and we are interested in so-called COMPLETE proteins, or those that contain all of the AAs. We cannot waste valuable energy in biosynthetic pathways when this energy could be expended in the synthesis of muscle tissue componets (for example)

now for most people this is not an issue since consumption of a broad spectrum of foods ensures sufficient quantities of all AAs. However, for someone on a vegetarian diet for example, may want to structure meals such that one could obtain complete AA profile in their diet

Holto
02-02-2004, 11:10 PM
I don't think aka is saying eat lentils as your prime source of protein

having looked at veggies and meats at nutritiondata.com they both seem to have the same number of amino's

I just wouldn't want to have to get 200g's worth from veggies, if I could ever eat that much solid food

aka23
02-02-2004, 11:32 PM
However, this is a BBing site and we are interested in so-called COMPLETE proteins, or those that contain all of the AAs. We cannot waste valuable energy in biosynthetic pathways when this energy could be expended in the synthesis of muscle tissue componets (for example)

Lets look at some specific examples:

Here is the "essential" AA data for lentils as listed on nutritiondata.com:
Tryptophan 9g 82% Optimal
Threonine 36g 105% Optimal
Isoleucine 43g 154% Optimal
Leucine 73g 110% Optimal
Lysine 70g 120% Optimal
Methionine+Cystine 22g 86% Optimal
Phenylalanine+Tyrosine 76g 121% Optimal
Valine 50g 142% Optimal
Histidine 28g 148% Optimal

The lentils contain a good amount of all 8-10 essential amino acids. There is less than "optimal" amonuts of tryptophan and methionine, but all the amino acids are present, and the protein can be used to build muscle and do other processes.

In contrast the essential amino acid data for chicken breast is:
Tryptophan 12g 106% Optimal
Threonine 42g 124% Optimal
Isoleucine 53g 189% Optimal
Leucine 75g 114% Optimal
Lysine 85g 146% Optimal
Methionine+Cystine 40g 162% Optimal
Phenylalanine+Tyrosine 73g 117% Optimal
Valine 50g 142% Optimal
Histidine 31g 163% Optimal

All of the essential amino acids are also present in the chicken breast , but they are in a ratio closer to the human ideal than with the lentils, so there are fewer left over amino acids. Both the protein in the lentils and chicken gets broken down into AA acids and are used in a similar way. The amino acids in both the lentils and chicken can be used to build muscle and for other processes whether they are consumed with other foods or alone. I am not sure what "biosynthetic pathways" you are referring to that are present with the lentils and not the chicken.

A person could obtain all of their protein from a single "incomplete" plant product. This would just be an inefficient way of doing things. They would require extra protein, so that they received enough of the limiting amino acid. In grains, this limiting amino acid is usally lysine or isoleucine. In beans, this limiting amino acid is usually methionine. In vegetables, it is usually methionine or isoleucine. Animal products like beef and milk also have limiting amino acids, but these are usually ignored since they are closer to the ideal human profile.

Nutritionists sometimes encourage vegetarians who do not consume much protein to combine foods with different limiting amino acids, so that they can get by with less protein. A balanced diet should do this automatically since different food groups have different limiting amino acids. The body can store limiting amino acids, so complimentary foods do not need to be eaten at the same meal, but they do need to be combined in the same day.

I think that none of the above should be a concern for people with a decent intake of protein (1g/lb) and a somewhat balanced diet. Essential amino acid requirements for humans are not very high, and most protein sources contain more than needed. I think complementary amino acids might be a concern if you have a low protein or calorie intake and you have a poorly balanced diet (nearly all protein coming from a single "incomplete" source). This type of diet is common is some third world countries, but is uncommon for participants on this forum.

hemants
02-03-2004, 06:15 AM
"that is not exactly true. all ANIMAL proteins contain the essentials,but not all PLANT sources (soy, beans, peanuts, etc.)"

Wrong.

the doc
02-03-2004, 07:41 AM
lol.. the "biosynthetic pathways" to which i refer are not those in lentils or chicken but in humans. I'll repeat my post


whilst what aka said is techically correct, imo this is not useful for those of us in BBing circles.


as i remember there are ~20 AAs which are, although not all essential, still required for optimum levels of protein synthesis. Human and other higher order animals are not very efficient in synthesis of AAs and thus there are essential AAs which CANNOT be synthesized in the body and therefore must be consumed or you cannot live. However, this is a BBing site and we are interested in so-called COMPLETE proteins, or those that contain all of the AAs. We cannot waste valuable energy in biosynthetic pathways when this energy could be expended in the synthesis of muscle tissue componets (for example)

now for most people this is not an issue since consumption of a broad spectrum of foods ensures sufficient quantities of all AAs. However, for someone on a vegetarian diet for example, may want to structure meals such that one could obtain complete AA profile in their diet

the doc
02-03-2004, 07:51 AM
Lets look at some specific examples:

Here is the "essential" AA data for lentils as listed on nutritiondata.com:
Tryptophan 9g 82% Optimal
Threonine 36g 105% Optimal
Isoleucine 43g 154% Optimal
Leucine 73g 110% Optimal
Lysine 70g 120% Optimal
Methionine+Cystine 22g 86% Optimal
Phenylalanine+Tyrosine 76g 121% Optimal
Valine 50g 142% Optimal
Histidine 28g 148% Optimal

The lentils contain a good amount of all 8-10 essential amino acids. There is less than "optimal" amonuts of tryptophan and methionine, but all the amino acids are present, and the protein can be used to build muscle and do other processes.

In contrast the essential amino acid data for chicken breast is:
Tryptophan 12g 106% Optimal
Threonine 42g 124% Optimal
Isoleucine 53g 189% Optimal
Leucine 75g 114% Optimal
Lysine 85g 146% Optimal
Methionine+Cystine 40g 162% Optimal
Phenylalanine+Tyrosine 73g 117% Optimal
Valine 50g 142% Optimal
Histidine 31g 163% Optimal

All of the essential amino acids are also present in the chicken breast , but they are in a ratio closer to the human ideal than with the lentils, so there are fewer left over amino acids. Both the protein in the lentils and chicken gets broken down into AA acids and are used in a similar way. The amino acids in both the lentils and chicken can be used to build muscle and for other processes whether they are consumed with other foods or alone. I am not sure what "biosynthetic pathways" you are referring to that are present with the lentils and not the chicken.
*** I never mentioned "biosynthetic pathways" with regard to lentils or chicken. As you can see from my above post i was talking about aa biosynthesis in higher order animals as being extremely inefficient.

A person could obtain all of their protein from a single "incomplete" plant product. This would just be an inefficient way of doing things. They would require extra protein, so that they received enough of the limiting amino acid. In grains, this limiting amino acid is usally lysine or isoleucine. In beans, this limiting amino acid is usually methionine. In vegetables, it is usually methionine or isoleucine. Animal products like beef and milk also have limiting amino acids, but these are usually ignored since they are closer to the ideal human profile.
*** so it would seem you agree with me.

Nutritionists sometimes encourage vegetarians who do not consume much protein to combine foods with different limiting amino acids, so that they can get by with less protein. A balanced diet should do this automatically since different food groups have different limiting amino acids. The body can store limiting amino acids, so complimentary foods do not need to be eaten at the same meal, but they do need to be combined in the same day.

I think that none of the above should be a concern for people with a decent intake of protein (1g/lb) and a somewhat balanced diet. Essential amino acid requirements for humans are not very high, and most protein sources contain more than needed. I think complementary amino acids might be a concern if you have a low protein or calorie intake and you have a poorly balanced diet (nearly all protein coming from a single "incomplete" source). This type of diet is common is some third world countries, but is uncommon for participants on this forum.
again i dont really understand what you point you are trying to make other than to agree with me :scratch:

aka23
02-03-2004, 07:56 AM
the "biosynthetic pathways" to which i refer are not those in lentils or chicken but in humans...
again i dont really understand what you point you are trying to make other than to agree with me :scratch:
Perhaps I did not phrase my post clearly. You make it sound like bodybuilders should not be concered with "incomplete" proteins because when consuming so called "incomplete" proteins, humans waste valuable energy in biosynthetic pathways. You imply that humans do not waste this energy when consuming so called "complete" proteins, or as you say proteins "that contain all of the AAs." Your post suggests the reason for this wasted energy is that incomplete proteins are missing AAs, yet the data at nutritiondata.com shows that lentils contain a good amount of all the essential AAs, as well as all the non-essential AAs that are listed. .

hemants
02-03-2004, 07:56 AM
"However, for someone on a vegetarian diet for example, may want to structure meals such that one could obtain complete AA profile in their diet"

I don't believe this is at all necessary, even for a vegan. If you're getting 150g of protein on a vegan diet, chances are you're consuming lots of soy, beans, etc. all of which contain an abundance of essential AA.

Vegetarian sources tend to be lower in methionine but for the sake of argument, even if your only protein source was green pepper protein isolate (is there such a thing? LOL) :cool: , you would only need 56g of it to get enough methionine. (In comparison, you would need 28g of chicken to get enough phenylalaine per day which is it's limiting essential AA).

Anyone consuming over 100g of ANY protein per day is going to get more than enough essential AA's.

the doc
02-03-2004, 08:52 AM
so for everyone reading this we can summarize this thread with the following.

1)eat a balanced diet which incorperates a variety of protein sources (beef, chicken, fish, legumes, etc)

2) ignore the label

:cool::cool:

hemants
02-03-2004, 09:09 AM
Well, I would say:

1. eat enough protein and you won't have to worry about essential AA's

2. aside the quantities of each nutrient, the label can be ignored

the doc
02-03-2004, 09:15 AM
I just noticed that on the bag of chicken breasts I have that under protein it says "not a signifigant source of protein". I thought chicken was complete...? Regardless, it's still a good source of protein and I'll continue to use it, I'm just wondering for curiosity sake.
we are talking about this label right hemants?
:)

Indianmuscle
02-03-2004, 10:06 AM
tuna is a great source for protein....

TheGimp
02-03-2004, 10:13 AM
tuna is a great source for protein....

Thanks for the tip

AllUp
02-03-2004, 10:19 AM
tuna is a great source for protein....
Yep.. If it tastes like sawdust or dirt you KNOW it's gotta be good for you...
Just make sure it isn't sawdust or dirt. :P

Anthony
02-03-2004, 10:32 AM
I just noticed that on the bag of chicken breasts I have that under protein it says "not a signifigant source of protein". I thought chicken was complete...? Regardless, it's still a good source of protein and I'll continue to use it, I'm just wondering for curiosity sake.

I'm not sure if this has been said above, but I don't see the relationship between "significant" and "complete." Also, is the bag of chicken breasts sold by a certain brand? The reason I ask is that a lot of the packaged hamburgers/chicken breasts/steaks that you buy in the frozen section have different values than what you get from the butcher (ie, usually more fat and less protein).